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GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

Is this raffle in extremely bad taste?

  • Yes, the republicans should be ashamed

    Votes: 14 35.0%

  • No, everyone should really just relax

    Votes: 21 52.5%

  • Other, I can't commit to yes or no

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • Total voters
    40
TurtleDude said:
there have been many bills introduced to ban guns. Diane Feinswine, the main author of the clinton gun ban told 60 minutes that if she had the votes she would have introduced a law to CONFISCATE all semi auto weapons in the USA--of course that would have resulted in a civil war and probably lots of dead government employees. but she wanted the cops to go house to house confiscating every semi auto. Major Owens, a far left dem congressman at least was honest, he wanted to repeal the second amendment.
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So what! There are a SLEW of republicans who want to regulate marriage! I dont CARE if its at a state level. Republicans EXPECT the Government(state and/or fed) to define and deny marriage to tax paying adults.. and they VOW to get it done if elected. California's Proposition 8 was a republican effort. I can make a list of republicans who want to deny people the right of marriage.

You REALLY have the nerve to boo hoo over the dems who've tried to ban guns? Come. on.
And I dont care what arguments you've heard claiming abortion isnt regulating MY body. Its MY body and only I know how it would feel to me. Would you feel your pecker were being regulated if we forced men to get fixed?
As far as drugs go, If you think a change in the law is going to turn meth junkies into social users who keep their jobs and suddenly stop overdosing... you're not thinking at ALL. People will still OD, still pick their face, abandon their kids, steal from people, fail to pay their bills and so forth. And if you think it costs Tax payers a lot now, JUST WAIT till they're LEGAL!
 
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SeattleRain said:
So what! There are a SLEW of republicans who want to regulate marriage! I dont CARE if its at a state level. Republicans EXPECT the Government(state and/or fed) to define and deny marriage to tax paying adults.. and they VOW to get it done if elected. California's Proposition 8 was a republican effort. I can make a list of republicans who want to deny people the right of marriage.

You REALLY have the nerve to boo hoo over the dems who've tried to ban guns? Come. on.
And I dont care what arguments you've heard claiming abortion isnt regulating MY body. Its MY body and only I know how it would feel to me. Would you feel your pecker were being regulated if we forced men to get fixed?
As far as drugs go, If you think a change in the law is going to turn meth junkies into social users who keep their jobs and suddenly stop overdosing... you're not thinking at ALL. People will still OD, still pick their face, abandon their kids, steal from people, fail to pay their bills and so forth. And if you think it costs Tax payers a lot now, JUST WAIT till they're LEGAL!
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I guess you missed my point that those who try to ban abortion are about the same in my book as those who try to ban guns. Both groups lie about their true motivations.

You really are going a bit nuts in this last post. I think a change in the drug laws would be smart given the massive failure they have been so far

those who don't learn from history keep F'ing up-what did prohibition teach us?
 
dixiesolutions said:
Well OK.....Let's start with YOU.

Tell me and everyone else just how you feel about guns, and people owning guns?. And whats your personal opinion on the Glock handgun?
I think it's one of the best handguns of it's class......Do you agree?
Like many many of others in America, I own a Glock .....Do you.?....if not a Glock......What kind?
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Again, the personal inquisition continues. Odd that some cannot argue a position without getting personal. A shortcoming, IMHO.

A gunsmith told me that a Glock was a POS. After dry firing one, I had to agree (makes a Jack-in-the-Box "sproooong" when the firing pin finally releases, after Olympic trigger travel -- and a stamped Cracker Jacks trigger at that). I hear that it's main claim to fame is being able to function despite abuse. Perhaps a quality also useful here at DP :mrgreen:

I've personally met a gunsmith that makes 1911's for Steven Segal, as if that means anything, but since it's phallic brag time, what the heck. He also had a nice 2nd gen. Ford SVT Lightning pickup (the gunsmith, not Segal, whom I have not met, but seems like 'my kind of guy'.). I think I'd prefer one of his (the gunsmith's) pistols (I would definitely not want to covet anything owned by Mr. Segal
blackeyesmiley56.gif
).
 
TurtleDude said:
[...] Dem Asswipe charles Schumer bragged that (upon passing the clinton gun ban) that he was going to show the NRA "the rest of the camel" (after the NRA correctly noted that the dem gun laws were merely the nose of the camel under the tent). [...]
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LOL... you'll have to admit, that's not a bad line :mrgreen:
 
TurtleDude said:
I have forgotten more about gun issues than you will ever know. I have done it all, been a member of the US shooting team and a world class shooter, an attorney representing law enforcement agencies, gun makers and gun clubs, and a coach of shooting sport athletes. I represented a Title II manufacturer (machine guns) the largest NRA affiliated gun club in the USA, and two major league retail dealers. My representation also involved lobbying. So I have dealt with just about every angle on this issue. and yes, I used a gun to shoot my way out of a mugging.

so the amateur psychologist nonsense doesn't cut it with me. and I know what motivates the anti gun leadership
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I dont care dude, I'm not at ALL impressed. Nor does it make you an expert on people. You NEED to believe you "know" because it makes YOU feel important. Which tells me plenty about you.

FACT is, you dont know everyone and cant possibly know why all people fear guns. lol. How narcissistic to honestly believe you're omniscient.
 
TurtleDude said:
how was it a bad decision? because it upsets hoplophobes and those who don't like the GOP? face it that is what the criticism comes from=leftwingers
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The criticism should come from decent people, and no, I don't think that only those on the left are decent. I wouldn't care about a gun raffle somewhere else. I also wouldn't care about this raffle a month before the shooting. Anyone with half a brain had to know how this would look and they did it anyway. That says some very bad things about this particular group of the GOP.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have forgotten more about gun issues than you will ever know. I have done it all, been a member of the US shooting team and a world class shooter, an attorney representing law enforcement agencies, gun makers and gun clubs, and a coach of shooting sport athletes. I represented a Title II manufacturer (machine guns) the largest NRA affiliated gun club in the USA, and two major league retail dealers. My representation also involved lobbying. So I have dealt with just about every angle on this issue. and yes, I used a gun to shoot my way out of a mugging. [...]
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It's the internet. You can be whatever you want to be... as if that has any bearing on the quality of your argument :2razz:
 
TurtleDude said:
I guess you missed my point that those who try to ban abortion are about the same in my book as those who try to ban guns. Both groups lie about their true motivations.

You really are going a bit nuts in this last post. I think a change in the drug laws would be smart given the massive failure they have been so far

those who don't learn from history keep F'ing up-what did prohibition teach us?
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And when the strung out meth addict cant pay for their legal meth what do you think they're going to do? Go get a job? lol. I'm FINE with legalizing all drugs.. IF someone can tell me who will pay for the fall out. There is no proof legalizing all drugs will increase use therefore no proof it will cost tax payers more than the drug war does, right? I understand that. But there's also no proof that marriage equality will turn kids gay or destroy traditional families, either. That doesn't seem to stop the GOP from sticking their BIG Government noses in the matter, does it? So I dont care if there's no proof things will get worse. I know how addicts are - if they CAN use, they WILL use ... so we better be prepared to clean up their mess.
 
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Karl said:
Again, the personal inquisition continues. Odd that some cannot argue a position without getting personal. A shortcoming, IMHO.

A gunsmith told me that a Glock was a POS. After dry firing one, I had to agree (makes a Jack-in-the-Box "sproooong" when the firing pin finally releases, after Olympic trigger travel -- and a stamped Cracker Jacks trigger at that). I hear that it's main claim to fame is being able to function despite abuse. Perhaps a quality also useful here at DP :mrgreen:

I've personally met a gunsmith that makes 1911's for Steven Segal, as if that means anything, but since it's phallic brag time, what the heck. He also had a nice 2nd gen. Ford SVT Lightning pickup (the gunsmith, not Segal, whom I have not met, but seems like 'my kind of guy'.). I think I'd prefer one of his (the gunsmith's) pistols (I would definitely not want to covet anything owned by Mr. Segal
blackeyesmiley56.gif
).
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well I love 1911's and for a trained (ie a USPSA master class shooter such as me) pistol shot they have a lot to offer. (seagal is not exactly a Robbie Leatham or Doug Koenig) However, for military and police the glock is a superior design. They work, they are accurate (I can generally keep 50 rounds in a 8" circle at 25 Yards without much effort shooting rather quickly) and reliable. Gunsmiths tend to bash them because there is no real modifications that require much money to improve them (other than putting on better sights). You can have a NY trigger-8 pounds, standard-5 pounds or the 3 pounds i use on my competition glocks (ask Dave Sevigny if they are POS, though he just left team Glock he won a ton of titles against people shooting far more expensive guns). That the FBI and USMS uses them is a pretty good argument over some unnamed gunsmith
 
SeattleRain said:
I dont care dude, I'm not at ALL impressed. Nor does it make you an expert on people. You NEED to believe you "know" because it makes YOU feel important. Which tells me plenty about you.

FACT is, you dont know everyone and cant possibly know why all people fear guns. lol. How narcissistic to honestly believe you're omniscient.
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having debated the ARC all over the country I can make a rather educated analysis of what motivates the ones who actually start and fund ARC (anti rights coalition) organizations. I don't need to feel important. I just like slapping around emotobabbling nonsense from people who are not educated on this subject
 
Karl said:
It's the internet. You can be whatever you want to be... as if that has any bearing on the quality of your argument :2razz:
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true, one can be say a college kid living on his parents' dime pretending to be a marxist or anarchist to gain shock value I suppose.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
It's one of the most, if not the most popular handgun currently used in the U.S.
I'm not sure why it's insensitive.
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to people who are offended by others being armed (or as I noted, demonstrating that personal safety is an INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY) it is insensitive.
 
mike2810 said:
Do you drive? If so, bet your type of car has killed someone. It is a murder machine. Good grief.

and yes I own firearms, one happens to be a glock
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The weakness in this argument is that cars weren't invented to run over people. Apples and oranges.
 
TurtleDude said:
to people who are offended by others being armed (or as I noted, demonstrating that personal safety is an INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY) it is insensitive.
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It's offensive to people who want to find something to be offended about. Something the extremists on both sides are great at.

The GOP was guilty of slightly poor taste, but that's it. (Before anybody gets their panties in a knot, this is the GOP doing this raffle. Not just a conservative group, but the actual Republican party.)
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
It's not like they sent out invitations, to attend, to Gifford and the others families.
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Giffords might go if invited. She owns a similar gun herself. I doubt she wants to raise money for the Republicans to unseat her, but it's hard to blame her for that.
 
Hatuey said:
The weakness in this argument is that cars weren't invented to run over people. Apples and oranges.
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Neither were hammers, knives, crowbars, baseball bats, rope. The weakness in your rebuttle is you fail to realize humans find a way to use things to kill. But in the context of the debate, I suggested if a raffle was for a car and a large group had been killed by a car, would their be the objection? It is not apple/orange.
 
TurtleDude said:
having debated the ARC all over the country I can make a rather educated analysis of what motivates the ones who actually start and fund ARC (anti rights coalition) organizations. I don't need to feel important. I just like slapping around emotobabbling nonsense from people who are not educated on this subject
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Well, I hate to pop your arrogant bubble, but, you haven't "slapped" me around AT ALL... so dont go gettin' all high on yourself over me. Once again, I'm not at all impressed. And even if I wanted to learn from you, I couldnt. I think you were picked on too much as kid, or ignored and over compensate with your "Im smarter than you" attitude. I think you type to read your own posts and only care about what YOU have to say. Its as if you stopped emotionally growing around 14. So you may think you're smart, and maybe you do have a stable IQ, but its CLEAR your Emotional Intelligence is sittin' pretty low on the poll.
 
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I wonder if this isn't similar to the complaints about the union protests against Gov. Wallace during the Special Olympics event. There was a thread about it and I don't think I saw anyone post that the unions shouldn't be able to protest. The problem was the place they chose to protest. Many people, myself included, thought the protest at that event was in bad taste. I agree with the people protesting but felt that the time and place was not appropriate. This gun raffle is the same. I don't object to a gun raffle. The problem is that gun, in that place, at this time.
 
SeattleRain said:
To the current discussion: If we ban guns then eventually we'll have to ban tobacco, prescription painkillers(legal heroin), junk food .... and forget about ever legalizing pot. I'm a Liberal Democrat and I understand this, but, I know some anti-gun liberals unwilling to give up drinking and smoking despite the fact they also kill people. It makes no sense and they should relax.
However, Pro-gun folks need to lighten up also and try to understand that Gun regulations aren't meant as a personal attack on their rights. Regulations aren't Gun Rights true threat, illegal gun owners are ... and if things are this bad with regulations, I can only imagine what it would be like without some "order".
Regulations are intended to preserve gun rights. They're meant to keep that "one bad apple" from "spoiling the whole bunch"
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They will have to pry my cigs, pain killers,beer and junk food from my cold dead hand:2razz::lamo
 
TurtleDude said:
[...] However, for military and police the glock is a superior design. [...]
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In that they are rather foolproof and fire in a straight line, they are suitable for the task at hand. Point, squeeze (a long time), bang.

TurtleDude said:
[...] (ask Dave Sevigny if they are POS, though he just left team Glock he won a ton of titles against people shooting far more expensive guns). That the FBI and USMS uses them is a pretty good argument over some unnamed gunsmith
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That Glock sponsors a competitive shooting team means absolutely nothing about the quality or desirability of their pistols.
That Glock's 'hired gun' is a better shooter than someone using a competing brand means absolutely nothing.
That the FBI and whomever prefers a foolproof pistol means little other than the Glock's foolproof characteristics (a rubber hammer is rather foolproof as well, but you won't be pounding any nails with it).

When I shot Open Division in USPSA, I didn't see too may Glocks in that division. In fact, I can't recall seeing any, even at the Nationals in Barry IL.
 
TurtleDude said:
true, one can be say a college kid living on his parents' dime pretending to be a marxist or anarchist to gain shock value I suppose.
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True, which is why it is pointless to invoke personal claims to fame or experience in lieu of a rational argument. Thus, the anonymous nature of the internet debate precludes any personal posturing, except for that embarked upon for comedic value (or shock value, if you will).
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
It's one of the most, if not the most popular handgun currently used in the U.S.
I'm not sure why it's insensitive.
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There is a thing called context. I believe it's already been adequately explained in this particular case.

TurtleDude said:
to people who are offended by others being armed (or as I noted, demonstrating that personal safety is an INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY) it is insensitive.
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There is a thing called a stawman. I believe that's perfect example of it ;)
 
Layla_Z said:
So a Glock is the only thing they could think of to raffle?!? Really!?! Wouldn't a better choice be something that everyone would want? Oh, and it is insanely insensitive.
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This is an amazing non story, except to overly-sensitive hoplophobes.
 
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