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Child Support Payments

Removable Mind said:
Child support isn't about the crotch bumping buddies who got stoned and made a kid.

This isn't about laws.

Come on folks! This is about helpless children who can't fend for themselves. Gezzzzzzzzzzzzz!
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Exactly. It is about supporting the kids and has nothing to do with forcing the man to help. If she can't support it on her own she simply uses birth control.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Yeah... didn't answer properly according to the OP. The woman can abort or not, that is not the issue, so most of the last part is irrelevant. the law must not compel him to do anything. The law must compel that the child is supported. That need not be one or the other parent. It can be either or none. That is why it is legal to put kids up for adoption. Since adoption is an option, the state obviously must not compel him to do anything. He doesn't pay the new parents. She doesn't pay the new parents. There might only be one parent adopting. ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT THE CHILD IS SUPPORTED.

If the woman can't do that on her own, she should abort. THAT is the matter at hand here.
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What you are ignoring is that once the child is born both parents have responsibilities and rights when it comes to the child.

The child can not be given up for adoption without both parents agreeing, if one parent wants to keep the child and the other doesnt, the one that doesnt can be required to pay child support. It does not matter the gender of the parent
 
Temporal said:
It's a battle of gender rights, basically...
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Exactly. And the women get all the rights when it comes to this issue...

and it typically comes down to men who are pissed off that women have more reproductive rights than they do.
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You couldn't be any more wrong if you tried. Amazing.

It typically comes down to men not wanting to have to pay for the woman's decision. It was her decision, she should pay.

But what they aren't understanding is that those rights are by virtue of biology and it can't be helped. The man has no control over the fate of the fetus - to do so would be controlling the woman's body and that right hasn't been his since before the Progressive Era.
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There are pro-life zealots that want to control her body, but that is about abortion. This is about child support and I am not sure that anybody is arguing controlling her, so this is yet another logical fallacy of yours.

I agree... this is about children, first and foremost. Also... these proponents of financial abortion are typically silent when you ask WHO will pay to support the children. That really puts conservatives into a tizzy, doesn't it? Choosing between mens imaginary reproductive rights in this department, and social welfare
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There it is again... that Appeal to Popularity.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
What you are ignoring is that once the child is born both parents have responsibilities and rights when it comes to the child.

The child can not be given up for adoption without both parents agreeing, if one parent wants to keep the child and the other doesnt, the one that doesnt can be required to pay child support. It does not matter the gender of the parent
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I am not ignoring that. That is not up for debate. That is a Straw Man. A separate debate. Once the child is born I agree, he is stuck... they both are and that is best. I am talking about within the first month or two of finding out she is pregnant. I think I also said that if she doesn't know for five months or whatver due to irregular cycles, he is stuck. This is all about the beginning.

If I wasn't clear before, I hope this helps.

If she doesn't tell him or give him a choice and hits him up after the child is born, it should ALL be on her unless he wants to help.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I am not ignoring that. That is not up for debate. That is a Straw Man. A separate debate. Once the child is born I agree, he is stuck... they both are and that is best. I am talking about within the first month or two of finding out she is pregnant. I think I also said that if she doesn't know for five months or whatver due to irregular cycles, he is stuck. This is all about the beginning.

If I wasn't clear before, I hope this helps.

If she doesn't tell him or give him a choice and hits him up after the child is born, it should ALL be on her unless he wants to help.
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Niether parent has the individual right to not support a child once it is born, both can agree to give it up for adoption
 
Bodhisattva said:
I don't think that is what he is saying in the slightest.
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it wasnt even close in fact it was a bold face lie. It probably why they disappeared and ignored my challenged.
 
Bodhisattva said:
How is the man dysfunctional if he does not want a child since the mother has the legal right to abort? The mother would be dysfunctional, that is for sure. Also, dirt poor people have children all the time in America and nobody cares about the world of dysfunctionalti ythat the child is being born into there. Same with abusive or neglective parents. Opportunites are limited all over America.

That argument doesn't fly and doesn't address her legal rigth to have an abortion.

It is sooo frustrating to see three of five posters not even address the OP properly. WHY?!?!?! ARGH!
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If a man does not want a child, he uses a condom. That is when a responsible person makes their choice.
 
Removable Mind Post #20 said:
What a crock of bull****. The woman did or didn't do this or that. The man doesn't have to this or he should do that.

What in the hell is the matter with everybody? Once a child is born its no longer about what the woman or man wants!

A kid is 100% dependent on adults....PERIOD! Stop ****ing over the kids' welfare. Grow the **** up people.
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Removable Mind Post #38 said:
Child support isn't about the crotch bumping buddies who got stoned and made a kid.

This isn't about laws.

Come on folks! This is about helpless children who can't fend for themselves. Gezzzzzzzzzzzzz!
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Removable Mind - Post #43 said:
Babies and children don't give a flying **** how irresponsible their dumb ass parents are ... Or what their ass wipe parents think about who pays for what.

Babies and kid have to be feed and clothed AND NURTURED!
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Bodhisattva said:
Exactly. It is about supporting the kids and has nothing to do with forcing the man to help. If she can't support it on her own she simply uses birth control.
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Bod...child support isn't about who used rubbers or didn't. Or who used birth control pills or who didn't. RUBBERS BREAK! BIRTH CONTROL PILLS FAIL! People never have and never will keep from ****ing like monkeys - that apparently humans all are when struck by a serious bout of horniness. It's damn sure not about who is trying to force who to pay because somebody didn't want the kid. TOO ****ING BAD! Once a kid is here...that's where its at! Don't do the crime if you can't do the time...and that goes for the two people who make a baby. It's a done deal. They are here!

Once a kid is born it doesn't make a rats ass about who should of done what when. Babies and children just don't care who ****ed up. They really don't man. They are helpless. They didn't have any control over who didn't use a condom or didn't take a pill or forgot a diaphragm.

Irresponsible adult who make a baby aren't the issue. It's history that can't be changed.

I have seen a lot of children suffer because of these same type of disgusting arguments. They would have aborted themselves if they had had the power. I sure as hell would abort myself knowing I was being born to loser parents who couldn't - or worst yet - WOULDN'T be responsible for my welfare until I could be independent.

I've never seen more "SELFISH MISPLACED LOGIC". Once again. CHILD SUPPORT IS ABOUT CHILDREN WHO ARE LIVING BREATHING BEINGS WHO CAN'T LIVE IN THIS WORLD WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF THEIR PARENTS!

Does anybody understand this? If you don't...and you're a pro-lifer...then it's serious time that you reconsider your position on abortion.
 
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Temporal said:
And before someone tosses out that it's no different if a woman has an abortion when a man doesn't want her to get one, think again. Pregnancy can be a nightmare even if you want to have a kid - I can't imagine being forced into it against your will. Pregnancy entails medical risk; so does abortion. Either way, a woman is having to choose between risks and opportunity costs. She is the one having to deal with a pregnancy, not the man.
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And she can deal with the child then, right?

BTW, no woman is ever "forced into" pregnancy against her will barring instances of rape.
 
Temporal said:
Incorrect... unless immaculate conception has happened, the man played a role. Maybe he should have kept it in his pants if he didn't want to be a father?
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Maybe the woman should have taken other precautions if she didn't want to be a mother.
 
something going on OP, to make you think the responses were going to be different than the last recent thread you initiated on the same topic?



it's not like the guy knows that he might need to anticipate an 18 year financial liability as he unzips his pants


ooops. he does know


he just ignores that reality and makes what proves to be a costly decision


like at an amusement park, wanna go for a ride you have to pay for it



you can name it after me
 
justabubba said:
something going on OP, to make you think the responses were going to be different than the last recent thread you initiated on the same topic?



it's not like the guy knows that he might need to anticipate an 18 year financial liability as he unzips his pants


ooops. he does know


he just ignores that reality and makes what proves to be a costly decision


like at an amusement park, wanna go for a ride you have to pay for it



you can name it after me
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But is the same not fundamentally true for women as well? It's not like dudes pass a chick and say "Hey baby how you doing....opps got you pregnant".
 
Ikari said:
But is the same not fundamentally true for women as well? It's not like dudes pass a chick and say "Hey baby how you doing....opps got you pregnant".
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as has been cited a variety of times in this thread, it's NOT about the father or the mom
it's about the kid
don't plan to support one, then make sure you do what is necessary to keep from having one
whether you are man or woman


and to the OP: man up!
 
Catawba said:
If a man does not want a child, he uses a condom. That is when a responsible person makes their choice.
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If a woman does not want a child, she takes the pill or insists he use a condom. That is when a responsible person makes their choice.
 
if a man can't force a woman to carry a child she doesn't want for 9 months, a woman shouldn't be able to force a man to pay for a child he doesn't want for 18 years.
 
OscarB63 said:
If a woman does not want a child, she takes the pill or insists he use a condom. That is when a responsible person makes their choice.
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It takes two to make a child. BTW, I have noticed that many who defend deadbeat dads, are also the same ones that want to deny an abortion option for women.

It just doesn't get more ironic............or moronic, for that matter! :sun
 
Catawba said:
It takes two to make a child. BTW, I have noticed that many who defend deadbeat dads, are also the same ones that want to deny an abortion option for women.

It just doesn't get more ironic............or moronic, for that matter! :sun
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who is denying an abortion option for women? just saying a man should have the same option.
 
Child support isn't about irresponsible men and women who make a baby. Once a child is born...IT IS ALL about the baby...PERIOD. The baby doesn't give a rats ass who didn't use a condom or failed to take birth control.

Condoms and birth control pills can fail and a pregnancy happens. That's not the baby's fault.

It's not about the legal system. The baby didn't have a choice in being born. It it 100% dependent on the two people who created it to supply the proper nurturing, food, clothing, shelter, education...FOR 18 YEARS, people.

People on this thread still insist on making baby a victim. If a loser parent isn't willing to be responsible, if I had my way, he or she or both would go to ****ing jail.

Like it not...it doesn't matter whose fault it is that the pregnancy happened. IT DID, the baby is out of the womb - now it's time to pay....by both parents.

Can't do the time...don't do the crime.
 
Temporal said:
Incorrect... unless immaculate conception has happened, the man played a role. Maybe he should have kept it in his pants if he didn't want to be a father?



Been there, done that. It was called the Victorian era. You know... the one where women weren't considered persons and couldn't vote? Yeah, that one.
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'should have kept it in his pants'....? perhaps she should have kept her legs closed? after all, she , as well as the man, knew of the potential of a child being created when they had their physical union....just sayin'
 
Removable Mind said:
Can't do the time...don't do the crime.
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too bad that line of thinking is never applied to abortion :shrug:

funny how when it comes to the man, it is always "can't do the time, don't do the crime" "he shoulda worn a condom" etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum
but when it comes to the woman it is always "her body, her choice"

nice little double standard they've got going there
 
Catawba said:
You are pro-choice?

Don't know if you have noticed, but men do not have a uterus, so an abortion for men is not very realistic. However, there is solution to your your quest to control un-wanted births, in addition to condoms which are readily available. Scientists invent first male contraceptive pill - Telegraph
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I would be pro choice if men were allowed the option to refuse to pay child support. you seem to want to give women all the choice and men all the responsibility.
 
Catawba said:
You are pro-choice?

Don't know if you have noticed, but men do not have a uterus, so an abortion for men is not very realistic. However, there is solution to your your quest to control un-wanted births, in addition to condoms which are readily available. Scientists invent first male contraceptive pill - Telegraph
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I'll reiterate, what grows inside her uterus is NOT just a part of her. Explain to me how that is not the father's child, as well as the mother's, in development. I'm all for holding the deadbeat dads to pay support IF men are given a say in abortions. Furthermore, while we argue about this, I have another point to make. Statistically speaking, if only one parent wants the child born then more often it is the mother and not the father. So, if we hold the parent who doesn't want the kid financially responsible to an extent then the women are going to be the ones winning anyways.
 
OscarB63 said:
I would be pro choice if men were allowed the option to refuse to pay child support. you seem to want to give women all the choice and men all the responsibility.
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Personally, I want birth control, abortion procedures, and child support for every child to be nationalized. That way all men and all women have to pay for all abortions and all children. Everybody has responsibility on both ends of the issue that way.
 
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