• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsourced...

What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country?

  • $5.25 - $6.24 per hour

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • $4.25 - $5.24 per hour

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • $2.25 - $3.24 per hour

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • $0.50 - $0.99 per hour

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

I'm sorry but this is bull****. Most people in ANY country have "no choice" but to work for a wage that the market will bear.

What do you mean by what the market will bear? The lowest amount of money and highest amount of hours some one will work before they say no? Or do you mean the lowest amount of money a company can get away with paying someone?


It certainly is. So why would you want to take their jobs away from them by preventing them from working for the market wage?

I would rather that Americans be working those jobs, but if the are going to outsource jobs then those people should be making close to what someone over here would make.
This is an ignorant and patriarchal view of people in other countries,
No it is not. It assumes that these companies are lying to these people telling them that can't pay them more money when they have for decades been paying Americans more money to do those jobs.


and it assumes that they are inferior to Americans.
No it doesn't.Again it assumes that companies are lying to these people telling them that they can't pay them more money when Americans have been doing those jobs for decades.



People may have different cultural values and different levels of education, but they aren't fools who can't figure out if it's worthwhile to take a job.
At least, no moreso than Americans are.

An American can not take a job that pays 33½ cents per hour that requires that you work 80 hours a week. It possible they can take a job like that but they would be living in something like this eating rice and other cheap food-


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


For illustrative purposes, imagine that there was a powerful foreign country where the average income was $10,000 per hour and everyone was fabulously wealthy by American standards. Now suppose that this country pitied us poor Americans, so it roundly condemned our government and pressured it to raise the minimum wage to a level they deemed "fair" - say, a mere $500 per hour. Would we really be better off? Or would we just be out of work because not many people were willing to pay that?

These outsourced companies in China are paid by so called American companies that were paying Americans above minimum wage for 40 hours a week to produce the same goods that Chinese workers make now at 33½ cents per hour for 80 hours a week.

For illustrative purposes imagine a powerful foreign country were the average income was $10,000 per hour and fabulous wealthy by American standards.Now supposedly all the politicians in all parties(just like Bill Clinton and the republicans did in the 1990s) in that country decided to stick their tongues in the assholes of these companies to toss their salad for votes and campaign contributions by loosening any tariffs and barriers that basically allowed those companies in that country all outsourced to china and other countries where they can pay practically next to nothing even though these same companies are fully capable of paying a $10,000 per hour. Do you think that over time that country would still be fabulously wealthy and powerful country by American standards even though almost all the companies outsourced and the ones that did stay cut so many corners their products are now junk in order to compete with now Chinese companies?
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

it's not really that simple, since the standard of living in different countries varies widely. so $.50/hr in one country might be a lot but be poverty level in another.

If you are making 50 cents an hour in China I do not think you are living in the same quality of home and eating the same quality of food that an American who used to that factory job before it was outsourced to china.
 
Last edited:
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

If you are making 50 cents an hour in China I do not think you are living in the same quality of home and eating the same quality of food that an American who used to that factory job before it was outsourced to china.

While I would agree with you on this specific example, the purchasing power of 50 cents can vary greatly around the world, which I think is what Oscar was trying to say.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

While I would agree with you on this specific example, the purchasing power of 50 cents can vary greatly around the world, which I think is what Oscar was trying to say.

yeah, I just threw 50 cents out there as a number. point is my hourly salary has different buying power depending on where I am.

During my last deployment:

at the MOB station in TX a carton of smokes was around 40 bucks at wally world
on post that same carton of smokes was around 35 bucks at the PX
get into theater and that same carton of smokes 23 bucks at the cantina
go off the COB in Iraq and you could get a carton of Marlboros from a hadji shop for 7 dollars
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

This is , of course, impossible for me to answer.
Traditionally, the working man has been paid the lowest possible wage..Just enough to keep him from rebelling and striking.
Is this right ?
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

yeah, I just threw 50 cents out there as a number. point is my hourly salary has different buying power depending on where I am.

During my last deployment:

at the MOB station in TX a carton of smokes was around 40 bucks at wally world
on post that same carton of smokes was around 35 bucks at the PX
get into theater and that same carton of smokes 23 bucks at the cantina
go off the COB in Iraq and you could get a carton of Marlboros from a hadji shop for 7 dollars
So, what does this prove ?
That people earn enough to buy "slow suicide sticks" ?
Or that they are overpaid ?
And under-educated....
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

So, what does this prove ?
That people earn enough to buy "slow suicide sticks" ?
Or that they are overpaid ?
And under-educated....

proves that depending or where you are, your hourly wage is worth more or less.

my hourly rate in the US puts me in the middle class. a guy in mexico making the same hourly rate would be considered rich.

it really isn't that hard to understand, unless you are retarded.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

So what have we learned so far? What's this thread all about?
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

So what have we learned so far? What's this thread all about?

that the question asked in the OP is overly simplistic?
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

While I would agree with you on this specific example, the purchasing power of 50 cents can vary greatly around the world, which I think is what Oscar was trying to say.

Can a Chinese factory worker purchase the same quality of home and food on 23½ - 33½ cents per hour for 80 hours a week that a factory worker in the US did before the factory they worked at was outsourced? I have to wonder because the article I looked at said that the factory worker in China can not afford things such as simple toys for her child's birth or buy meat. I keep seeing posters copping out and just putting what ever the standard of living is, it seems that in China the standard of living for a factory worker is actual poverty.


washingtonpost.com: Chinese Workers Pay for Wal-Mart's Low Prices
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

So what have we learned so far? What's this thread all about?

People who support outsourcing could care less how exploited and ripped off a worker is regardless if that worker is practically working for free?
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

The real problem is that people here are willing to ignore the terrible conditions which these foreign workers deal with in order to be able to purchase cheap **** they would not be able to afford if the workers were treated fairly.

People may want to end the exploitation, but they want their cheap HDTV's more.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

The distance between people's self labeling and the positions they take can be amusing at times.

Here you have the "very conservative" James Rage arguing for social justice and the "liberal" Kandahar arguing against it.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

What do you mean by what the market will bear? The lowest amount of money and highest amount of hours some one will work before they say no? Or do you mean the lowest amount of money a company can get away with paying someone?

Generally speaking, the employer wants to pay the lowest possible wage, and the employee wants to receive the highest possible wage. When I say the "wage that the market will bear," I am referring to a wage at which both are made better off: The employer pays a low enough wage that the employee adds more value than he costs, and the employee receives a high enough wage that he doesn't find a job elsewhere. From a more macro perspective, it's the wage that is high enough that it doesn't cause a shortage of workers (which would drive the wage up), and low enough that it doesn't cause too many people to enter the industry (which would drive the wage back down). The market wage will be somewhere in between those points.

I would rather that Americans be working those jobs, but if the are going to outsource jobs then those people should be making close to what someone over here would make.

Why are Americans more entitled to those jobs than anyone else? And why should you expect them to pay as well elsewhere as they do here, when the economic conditions are completely different?

No it is not. It assumes that these companies are lying to these people telling them that can't pay them more money when they have for decades been paying Americans more money to do those jobs.

That's not a lie, it's just economics. Employers want to spend as little on labor as they can. Suppose that a factory could operate a robot for $10,000 per year that would replace a worker who had been earning $40,000. Would you expect them to overpay for the maintenance of their robot just because they had previously been paying someone more to do the same job?

An American can not take a job that pays 33½ cents per hour that requires that you work 80 hours a week. It possible they can take a job like that but they would be living in something like this eating rice and other cheap food-

And in some parts of the world, eating rice and living in a shantytown is an improvement over eating nothing at all and being homeless. Just because Americans have the luxury of not needing to think in those terms, doesn't make it objectively wrong for others to do what they need to do to improve their lives.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

The distance between people's self labeling and the positions they take can be amusing at times.

Here you have the "very conservative" James Rage arguing for social justice and the "liberal" Kandahar arguing against it.

I am not arguing against social justice; I'm all for providing unemployment benefits for those who lose their jobs to outsourcing, and retraining them in other areas. Furthermore, you have an odd definition of "social justice" if it involves taking jobs away from relatively poor people in developing countries so that those jobs can continue to be held by middle-class Americans, while also driving up the prices of consumer goods for Americans which will disproportionately hurt the poor. Free trade has been a huge engine of growth and has greatly reduced global income disparity; in the last 20 years it has lifted BILLIONS of people out of poverty, especially in Asia.

Frankly I'm just as tired of liberals fighting for comfy middle-class privilege at the expense of the poor (even if they pretend it's for the noble purpose of sticking it to The Man), as I am of conservatives fighting for Ayn Rand's ideals at the expense of the poor.
 
Last edited:
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

The real problem is that people here are willing to ignore the terrible conditions which these foreign workers deal with in order to be able to purchase cheap **** they would not be able to afford if the workers were treated fairly.

Chances are if you were unable to buy a 32 inch tv before the traitors in office started allowing companies to outsourcing I seriously doubt the people in the same income bracket today can afford may of those goods. Besides that low income people buy stuff on sale, on lay-away, buy stuff from stores like a Big Lots, Buy from a thrift store, buy from a pawnshops, rent to own, from fingerhut catalogs which is like rent to own, and maybe even wait until tax returns come in. Low income people are not going to be hurt if Chinese companies are forced to pay a wage similar to what an American factory worker would make.

People may want to end the exploitation, but they want their cheap HDTV's more.
Actually I like the regular CRT TVs more, they last a lot longer and are not as fragile as the new TVs.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

Chances are if you were unable to buy a 32 inch tv before the traitors in office started allowing companies to outsourcing I seriously doubt the people in the same income bracket today can afford may of those goods.

When do you think outsourcing started?
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

Generally speaking, the employer wants to pay the lowest possible wage, and the employee wants to receive the highest possible wage. When I say the "wage that the market will bear," I am referring to a wage at which both are made better off: The employer pays a low enough wage that the employee adds more value than he costs, and the employee receives a high enough wage that he doesn't find a job elsewhere. From a more macro perspective, it's the wage that is high enough that it doesn't cause a shortage of workers (which would drive the wage up), and low enough that it doesn't cause too many people to enter the industry (which would drive the wage back down). The market wage will be somewhere in between those points..

That does not say mean the wage will be fair or that the person working that wage can actually live decent.


Why are Americans more entitled to those jobs than anyone else?

Last time I checked those in office represent we the American people, not the Chinese,the Mexicans, Indians(India Indians not native American Indians),Indonesians or any other nation outside our country.Therefore they have no business encouraging businesses to outsource or even making it easy for them to do so.Their job is to look out for the interest of Americans. Americans loosing jobs to China and other countries is not the best interests of Americans. Real American companies being put out of business or having to cut so many corners until their products are junk because they can not compete with foreign ones that that pay their workers 50-120 dollars a month,lack of employee safety and environmental laws like the foreign companies is not in the best interest of America. America being at the mercy of those who produce goods is not in the best interests of Americans.

And why should you expect them to pay as well elsewhere as they do here, when the economic conditions are completely different?

Yes.Because the economic conditions are not different for those companies that outsource.The only reason they outsource is because of the they can get away with ripping off workers and paying them practically next to nothing and lack of employee and environmental safety laws.

That's not a lie, it's just economics. Employers want to spend as little on labor as they can.

A little less?That is a understatement.If these companies were paying the workers at or slightly below what the minum wage is here then that would be a little less. What companies pay workers in China and what those companies pay used to pay factory workers here even it was minimum wage is as different as the little fence in my back yard to the Great wall of China.

Suppose that a factory could operate a robot for $10,000 per year that would replace a worker who had been earning $40,000. Would you expect them to overpay for the maintenance of their robot just because they had previously been paying someone more to do the same job?

No.People are not robots.
And in some parts of the world, eating rice and living in a shantytown is an improvement over eating nothing at all and being homeless. Just because Americans have the luxury of not needing to think in those terms, doesn't make it objectively wrong for others to do what they need to do to improve their lives


Moving a factory to another country just so you can cheat a local population out of a decent wages because they dirt poor anyways is seriously wrong.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

When do you think outsourcing started?

I imagine that outsourcing has been going on for awhile but it didn't seem to skyrocket until after 1996 and afterwards when WTO,NAFTA,KAFTA and any other acronyms that cause Americans to loose their jobs was signed.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

The distance between people's self labeling and the positions they take can be amusing at times.

Here you have the "very conservative" James Rage arguing for social justice and the "liberal" Kandahar arguing against it.

I do not think its social justice to demand that companies do not outsource so they can get away with paying workers 50-120 dollars a month still leaving them in poverty and not have any worker and enviromental safety laws to adhere to. I do not think it is social justice to want to keep companies in America or to at least either enact tariffs on companies that do not pay at or close to the standard wage is in America so that companies can actually compete without turning their products into junk. Nor do I think it is social justice to want America to produce more goods so that we are not at the mercy of other countries.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

I imagine that outsourcing has been going on for awhile but it didn't seem to skyrocket until after 1996 and afterwards when WTO,NAFTA,KAFTA and any other acronyms that cause Americans to loose their jobs was signed.

I'd say that's a fair assessment. I aksed so that I could make a valid analysis of your statement "Chances are if you were unable to buy a 32 inch tv before the traitors in office started allowing companies to outsourcing I seriously doubt the people in the same income bracket today can afford may of those goods."

If you look at TV prices in the 90's, you can see that they were way higher than prices for comparable sized TV's today: TV Set Prices

Look at the price of a 28" Samsung in 1997: $750

Today, the most expensive Samsung TV in a similar size range I could find was this one: Samsung - 26" Class / LED / 720p / 60Hz / HDTV - UN26D4003

One can get a 51" inch samsung TV for a similar price: Samsung - 51" Class / Plasma / 1080p / 600Hz / HDTV - PN51D530A3 these days.

I don't have a comprehensive list of prices from the 90's, unfortunately, but I remember the prices for TV's being much higher than they are today. If we adjust for inflation, the prices are insanely lower. People in the same income bracket today as they were back then can easily afford stuff that they couldn't back in the early and mid 90's. Especially when inflation is taken into account.

That's how outsourcing keeps itself around. It essentially bribes the people who are most negatively affected by it into becoming the very force that sustains it. If people could part with their cheaply made nice ****, and refrain from making outsourcing profitable, then outsourcing would stop.

But the problem is, people are dumb. While one person out of every 1,000 might be willing to make such "sacrifice" due to the fact that they are smart enough to see how the bigger picture, most people won't have a clue and they'll continue to engage in self-defeating behaviors for the sake of instant gratification.

This makes the effort from the 1 out of every 1,000 entirely futile, so eventually they just give up and rail against the situation, wishing that people weren't so stupid and self-defeating.
 
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

The jobs I and my wife worked on moving overseas were high paying ones. The lowest paying were the electronic assembly jobs, but those were not the most desirable to move overseas or Mexico. The ones that management, therefore my wife and I, really worked on moving were the engineering jobs, especially the design engineering jobs. That’s where the caculated savings for the company are, if you can do it. The savings were not as much as caculated for many reasons, but the most important one with our experience was the lies that the overseas firms told about the qualifications of the engineers and the IP theft. I started working on moving jobs out of the US about 25 years ago, quit when I retired 10 years ago. My wife was an consultant supporting it until she retired about a year ago. Not something we wanted to do, but it was required by company management. Therefore, I don’t understand this poll at all.
 
Last edited:
Re: What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsource

this question is aimed at those who support outsourcing.

What is too low of a wage for a worker in another country working for a outsourced company?
This American dollars not Liberian or Canadian dollars.


$7.25 per hour(US federal minimum wage)
$6.25 - $7.24 per hour
$5.25 - $6.24 per hour
$4.25 - $5.24 per hour
$3.25 - $4.24 per hour
$2.25 - $3.24 per hour
$1.00 - $2.24 per hour
$0.50 - $0.99 per hour
$0.00(forced labor) - $0.49 per hour
I don't care how low of a wage they work or if they were forced to work.



The reason I did not put "what ever the going wage is that country" is because that answer is nothing more than a cop out and not an actual answer. If you do not care if people make 50 cents or only pennies an hour or simply do not care if they work in forced labor camps or prisons then have the balls to say that is what you support.

What does this stand for in your question? $

Are you asking how many dollars foreign workers should be paid and if so why are you asking it like this?

How can anybody answer this with the information you have provided? It is country specific.
 
Back
Top Bottom