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Do You Agree With [Obama's] New Approach to Deportations?

Do You Agree With [Obama's] New Approach to Deportations?

  • Yes, focus on deporting dangerous criminals first.

    Votes: 12 41.4%

  • No, this is the WH bypassing Congress to implement 'backdoor amnesty.

    Votes: 15 51.7%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Total voters
    29
spud_meister said:
Obama's basically taking the approach of "I'm not going to stop it, I'm not even gonna try to remedy the overall situation, but I'll try and minimise the worst parts of it", which makes sense, it's pragmatic, but I disagree with it.
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For all intents and purposes this is purely meant to be a stopgap measure until actual immigration reform is once again on the table, and Congress gets off its ass and does something.
 
RiverDad said:
I'd like to see the budget for deportations raised to the $40 billion figure that you just pulled out of your ass.

The ENTIRE department of U.S. Customs and Border Protection is budgeted at $11.84 Billion (2012)
The ENTIRE department of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement is budgeted at $5.82 Billion (2012)

Where did you get that $40 billion figure from, one of those pro-illegal alien websites that you reference in other posts dealing with these issues?
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And what makes you think those two agencies are the only ones responsible? What about USCIS? DOJ? The Coast Guard? State and local governments that work with the federal agencies?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Who here expects that we actually will deport all of them?

If we're not going to deport all 12mil of them, then we should prioritize.

If we are going to deport all of them, then there's no need to prioritize.​


Who here expects that we actually will deport all of them?
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When you have to institute a triage system you have to prioritize but you also have to remain flexible.

It's fine to focus on deporting criminals as a first priority but that doesn't mean that one should coddle non-violent criminals who are criminally here. Nor does it mean that one should catch and release illegal aliens who could be deported without putting up a legal fight. Nor does it mean that one has to shut down help from other state-level agencies who can assist federal efforts.

Obama, as is expected, is going about this all wrong. He should stop fighting against existing federal procedures which authorize state police to arrest illegal aliens. He should double-down on that. Pick the easy fruit first - sophisticated drug traffickers are not the low hanging fruit, the require a lot of resources to catch. The amount of resources required to round up 200 illegals at a plant would yield greater utility than devoting all those resources to building a case against some criminal. Taking away 3% of the resources directed towards the criminals will return more than 3% benefit.

Deporting 20 million illegals will improve life for American citizens. Labor scarcity will mean more Americans going back to work. That's good for Obama and for America.
 
RiverDad said:
When you have to institute a triage system you have to prioritize but you also have to remain flexible.

It's fine to focus on deporting criminals as a first priority but that doesn't mean that one should coddle non-violent criminals who are criminally here. Nor does it mean that one should catch and release illegal aliens who could be deported without putting up a legal fight. Nor does it mean that one has to shut down help from other state-level agencies who can assist federal efforts.

Obama, as is expected, is going about this all wrong. He should stop fighting against existing federal procedures which authorize state police to arrest illegal aliens. He should double-down on that. Pick the easy fruit first - sophisticated drug traffickers are not the low hanging fruit, the require a lot of resources to catch. The amount of resources required to round up 200 illegals at a plant would yield greater utility than devoting all those resources to building a case against some criminal. Taking away 3% of the resources directed towards the criminals will return more than 3% benefit.
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This sounds suspiciously like you're saying "who cares about the reality as long as it looks good on paper"... Deporting 1 hardened criminal is more beneficial than deporting 1,000 nannies and migrant laborers. In fact, the later is probably harmful.

Besides, it is WAAAAY easier to deport a real criminal than to deport a non-criminal. Unless they are an actual citizen, committing a felony is enough to get them deported. 1/2 the possible defenses they could present are off the table as soon as they've committed a felony. Not to mention the sympathy of the judge.

RiverDad said:
Labor scarcity will mean more Americans going back to work. That's good for Obama and for America.
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No it won't. Scarcity in the sub minimum wage labor market means businesses shutting down and all the citizens that work for those businesses looking for work.
 
teamosil said:
This sounds suspiciously like you're saying "who cares about the reality as long as it looks good on paper"... Deporting 1 hardened criminal is more beneficial than deporting 1,000 nannies and migrant laborers. In fact, the later is probably harmful.
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It takes a lot of resources to identity criminal suspects, then to build cases against them, and then to track them down and arrest them. Criminals inhabit a shadow world that is darker than the world inhabited by illegal aliens. Rooting out these criminals is very resource intensive. Rooting out 1,000 nannies is much, much easier, same with migrant workers.

No it won't. Scarcity in the sub minimum wage labor market means businesses shutting down and all the citizens that work for those businesses looking for work.
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If a business is not viable if it must pay legal wages, then society subsidizing the operation of that business is only making society poorer. Stopping the provision of a subsidy makes one wealthier.
 
RiverDad said:
It takes a lot of resources to identity criminal suspects, then to build cases against them, and then to track them down and arrest them. Criminals inhabit a shadow world that is darker than the world inhabited by illegal aliens. Rooting out these criminals is very resource intensive. Rooting out 1,000 nannies is much, much easier, same with migrant workers.
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I'm not buying that at all. Most the high priority targets are people who are already in our criminal justice system for whatever the crime that made them high priority was. Besides, it is WAAAAY easier to deport a real criminal than to deport a non-criminal. Unless they are an actual citizen, committing a felony is enough to get them deported. 1/2 the possible defenses they could present are off the table as soon as they've committed a felony. Not to mention the sympathy of the judge.

RiverDad said:
If a business is not viable if it must pay legal wages, then society subsidizing the operation of that business is only making society poorer. Stopping the provision of a subsidy makes one wealthier.
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What subsidy are you talking about? Society doesn't subsidize it. People from other countries are willing to work those jobs for wages below minimum wage.
 
Camlon said:
I think the focus is completely off. Don't go after the illegals, but go after the employers who hire them and go after the hand-outs US gives them.

This will reduce the incentive to stay in the US, and the number of illegals in the US will be reduced.
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Stay focused, this is about deportation policy.
 
teamosil said:
We currently spend $40 billion/year on immigration enforcement. How much would you like to see it increased to?
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I'd like to see it increased to no more welfare for illegals and the children of illegals.
 
PolitiFact | Obama says deportation of criminals up 70 percent under his administration

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jamesrage said:
We give money away to foreign countries, we give money away for stupid grants, we have hundreds of overlapping government agencies and many other stupid unnecessary government programs. We do not have a resource problem or resource constraint.
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We do based on the current budget. The president cannot simply reapportion funds without going through congress.
 
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phattonez said:
I'd like to see it increased to no more welfare for illegals and the children of illegals.
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They don't get welfare. If they have children here then the children get welfare but it has to be distributed to someone who is legally in the US. This is one of the biggest misunderstanding on the issue of immigration.

In addition we need illegal labor in this country. We can't afford to pay people a living, not minimum, but a living wage to pick our crops. The law should not be enforced blindly. People are not thinking practical about these things. Even if it was physically possible to deport everyone you would not be able to keep them out. Even if you were able to keep them out the money spent would be greater than their cost. Remember immigrants pay a sales tax and possibly property taxes, that has to be taken into account when discussing how much they cost this country.
 
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Simon W. Moon said:
Who here expects that we actually will deport all of them?

If we're not going to deport all 12mil of them, then we should prioritize.

If we are going to deport all of them, then there's no need to prioritize.​





Who here expects that we actually will deport all of them?
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I never said deport them all...my post is about stopping the flow of illegal immigration
 
The old approaches seem to be ineffective.
Interesting to note the conservative(old and tired) reactions, which are predictable.
Eventually, our people will wake up and modernize our immigration laws.
 
Flyersfan314 said:
They don't get welfare. If they have children here then the children get welfare but it has to be distributed to someone who is legally in the US. This is one of the biggest misunderstanding on the issue of immigration.
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Ah, welfare with a fig leaf. Amnesty with a fig leaf. Vote buying with a fig leaf. What could possibly go wrong? Save the nation.

Flyersfan314 said:
In addition we need illegal labor in this country.
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We must return to slavery. Is this your position? It is immoral.

Flyersfan314 said:
...People are not thinking practical about these things. Even if it was physically possible to deport everyone you would not be able to keep them out. Even if you were able to keep them out the money spent would be greater than their cost.
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Eventually each state may do what Alabama has done. We focus on the enablers. If you hire or assist an illegal alien you can be fined, and lose your business license. The illegals self deport. They got here at small cost to the nation. They can go back over the fence the same way.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Who here expects that we actually will deport all of them?

If we're not going to deport all 12mil of them, then we should prioritize.

If we are going to deport all of them, then there's no need to prioritize.​


Who here expects that we actually will deport all of them?
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Perhaps there is a better question to ask. How can we influence illegal aliens to self deport?

Why are they here? Opportunity. What happens when their opportunity fades away? They go to where there is more opportunity.

Why do we allow anchor babies? What happens if we don't allow anchor babies?
 
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pbrauer said:
Do You Agree With [Obama's] New Approach to Deportations?
  • Yes, focus on deporting dangerous criminals first.
  • No, this is the WH bypassing Congress to implement 'backdoor amnesty.'
  • Other
Here is a link to Fox News report on the change in policy.


"Special Report" On Backdoor Amnesty For Illegal Immigration? | RealClearPolitics
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I think it's a good move. Nobody wants criminals in the United States - that's something most people can agree on. It's also important to note that this policy is not necessary the end all, be all for illegal immigration policy under Obama so jumping to the conclusion that he won't take any further action is presumptuous at best.

I put this out there for all the alarmists who think Obama is granting amnesty to any non-criminal who wants to come here:
Those who see this as amnesty misconstrue the president's immigration record to date. The Obama administration has spent more money and assigned more boots to patrol the border with Mexico than any previous administration. It has deported nearly 1 million people. This is not an administration that is soft on illegal immigration.

Obama's promising move on immigration - latimes.com
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lpast said:
I never said deport them all...my post is about stopping the flow of illegal immigration
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Well, I'll say it then. All illegal immigrants should be deported. That's far from the solution to the issue, though. It's closer to being a tautology than a solution.
 
Flyersfan314 said:
They don't get welfare. If they have children here then the children get welfare but it has to be distributed to someone who is legally in the US. This is one of the biggest misunderstanding on the issue of immigration.

In addition we need illegal labor in this country. We can't afford to pay people a living, not minimum, but a living wage to pick our crops. The law should not be enforced blindly. People are not thinking practical about these things. Even if it was physically possible to deport everyone you would not be able to keep them out. Even if you were able to keep them out the money spent would be greater than their cost. Remember immigrants pay a sales tax and possibly property taxes, that has to be taken into account when discussing how much they cost this country.
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Flyers with all due respect your post is categorically wrong....we dont need ILLEGAL workers, we need Documented Green Card immigrants to work
Whatever they pay in sales tax is GONE the first time they go to the emergency room and allow us the privledge to pay for their health care. Health Care for illegal immigrants is killing us all by itself...not withstanding all the tremendous other costs illegal immigration puts on the american taxpayer

This is what infuriates me about the republicans and thier wanting to crucify american workers, no pensions, no health benefits, no social security, no medicare..they tell us public employees are overpaid and they dont do a damn thing about illegal immigration because their rich pigs at the trough want it to keep going on
 
The moment these people enter the country through any means other than legal and proper channels they are CRIMINALS. So saying "the one's who haven't committed criminal acts" is an oxymoron. Their mere presence here in the US consitutes a criminal act. They should all be depoted immediately. No hearings. No exceptions. Boot their asses back where they belong and if they come back again and get caught, then maybe we need to be a little less "polite" in our dealing with them.
 
Flyersfan314 said:
In addition we need illegal labor in this country. We can't afford to pay people a living, not minimum, but a living wage to pick our crops. The law should not be enforced blindly. People are not thinking practical about these things. Even if it was physically possible to deport everyone you would not be able to keep them out. Even if you were able to keep them out the money spent would be greater than their cost. Remember immigrants pay a sales tax and possibly property taxes, that has to be taken into account when discussing how much they cost this country.
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We have the prison population and those lazy individuals who are already collecting government assistance that can be pressed into service doing the field work that these illegals are doing.
 
Misterveritis said:
Ah, welfare with a fig leaf. Amnesty with a fig leaf. Vote buying with a fig leaf. What could possibly go wrong? Save the nation.


We must return to slavery. Is this your position? It is immoral.


Eventually each state may do what Alabama has done. We focus on the enablers. If you hire or assist an illegal alien you can be fined, and lose your business license. The illegals self deport. They got here at small cost to the nation. They can go back over the fence the same way.
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What are you talking about with this fig leaf crap. Why even bring up slavery here? I think Alabama may regret getting rid of their cheap farm labor. We will see what happens if the law stands and is fully implemented.

Illegal immigration make up a small number of the uninsured. Many illegals don;t go to the hospital for fear of being deported. Some do but if we were paying workers a lving wag eto work on our farms that may cost more. The price of food would definitely go up.

"we need Documented Green Card immigrants to work
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I am for a guest worker program.


Whatever they pay in sales tax is GONE the first time they go to the emergency room and allow us the privledge to pay for their health care."
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That is not true in every case. Many things are minor. If there is a serious problem then yes but overall illegal immigration needs to be consider through (labor savings + sales tax) - (social services)

I am in an airport right now and I will provide some research later. Unfortunately much of the research is so partisan it does't take into account all the benefits and drawbacks.
 
Tigger said:
We have the prison population and those lazy individuals who are already collecting government assistance that can be pressed into service doing the field work that these illegals are doing.
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Hell yah I'd put the prison population out there.
 
StillBallin75 said:
The federal bureaucracy (DHS, DOJ, ICE) has nowhere near enough resources to prosecute every ****ing deportation case involving an illegal
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They don't have to prosecute every illegal from Mexico in the first place. There's a provision in the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act called "expedited removal". It allows ICE to basically put illegals on a bus and send them back to Mexico, without them having to appear before an immigration judge. Expedited removal can be applied to aliens who possess no entry documents, documents that are either fraudulently obtained or counterfeit, and aliens who have entered (or attempted to enter) the United States without having first been admitted by an immigration officer at a standard port of entry.

The condition I highlighted above should be a "no-brainer" for applying the resource friendly expedited removal provision.
 
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