Are you smarter than The Obama?

theplaydrive said:

Having gone to a top 10 school for undergrad, I can safely say that there were students of all colors and backgrounds who had problems in college.

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Can you ask for your money back? That Top 10 school sure didn't deliver results which can be measured when looking at coherent argument. Here's what you've just done.

Me: Blind people shouldn't drive cars because their blindness is the cause of many accidents.
You: I've bee a driver for many years and let me tell you that I've seen plenty of accidents on the road and they usually involve drunkenness or speeding. Blindness had nothing to do with those accidents.

WTF? Is that a logical response? You've completely contorted the issue and devised some nonsensical response so that you could arrive at the conclusion you wanted to advance (Blindness had nothing to do with the accidents) the poor qualification of blacks and Hispanics admitted under Affirmative Action admissions policies had nothing to do with their doing poorly in school. Research shows otherwise.

Moreover, you keep talking about "changing attitudes" and getting rid of the idea that blacks don't deserve to be there.

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When's the last time you saw a man in a wheelchair qualify for the US Olympic 100m sprint team? If he was placed on the team even though he didn't qualify through getting a winning time in earlier trials, you'd say he was unqualified to be there.

No one is saying that blacks don't deserve to "be there" what I, and others, are saying is that unqualified people don't deserve to be there. Affirmative action doesn't apply to all people, only to minorities, so of course it is the minorities who get targeted for being unqualified and not deserving to be there. Once there is a fair system then everyone who is admitted under the same rules will be judged to be qualified and they'll all deserve to be there, which means, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whites, South Asians, Jews, handicapped, homosexuals, Native Americans, you name it.

RiverDad said:

No one is saying that blacks don't deserve to "be there" what I, and others, are saying is that unqualified people don't deserve to be there. Affirmative action doesn't apply to all people, only to minorities, so of course it is the minorities who get targeted for being unqualified and not deserving to be there. Once there is a fair system then everyone who is admitted under the same rules will be judged to be qualified and they'll all deserve to be there, which means, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whites, South Asians, Jews, handicapped, homosexuals, Native Americans, you name it.

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You'll never get what you want by railing against the social programs. Why not remove the stated reasons for having them to the satisfaction of a majority of those who fight to keep them in place? Cooperation nets more reliable results. I keep telling the folks on the abortion forum that they will "save more babies" if they took all that money and energy in a different direction and asked the folks that spend so much time and effort opposing them to help find alternative and peaceful ways to reduce or eliminate the reasons women have abortions, in exchange for keeping the abortion procedure safe and legal. Doesn't anyone here understand games theory even a little bit?

How is it someone that graduated from Harvard with the exceptional honors that Obama did, is not be qualified to get in??? Where is the proof he got in on affirmative action anyway? Isn't this just another of the racist talking points we heard from the tea party about his birth certificate???

RiverDad said:

Can you ask for your money back? That Top 10 school sure didn't deliver results which can be measured when looking at coherent argument. Here's what you've just done.

Me: Blind people shouldn't drive cars because their blindness is the cause of many accidents.
You: I've bee a driver for many years and let me tell you that I've seen plenty of accidents on the road and they usually involve drunkenness or speeding. Blindness had nothing to do with those accidents.

WTF? Is that a logical response? You've completely contorted the issue and devised some nonsensical response so that you could arrive at the conclusion you wanted to advance (Blindness had nothing to do with the accidents) the poor qualification of blacks and Hispanics admitted under Affirmative Action admissions policies had nothing to do with their doing poorly in school. Research shows otherwise.

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/cool story bro

You distorted my argument and then criticized me for your distortion. Can I get my tax money back for contributing to your education?

When's the last time you saw a man in a wheelchair qualify for the US Olympic 100m sprint team? If he was placed on the team even though he didn't qualify through getting a winning time in earlier trials, you'd say he was unqualified to be there.

No one is saying that blacks don't deserve to "be there" what I, and others, are saying is that unqualified people don't deserve to be there. Affirmative action doesn't apply to all people, only to minorities, so of course it is the minorities who get targeted for being unqualified and not deserving to be there. Once there is a fair system then everyone who is admitted under the same rules will be judged to be qualified and they'll all deserve to be there, which means, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whites, South Asians, Jews, handicapped, homosexuals, Native Americans, you name it.

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Great. Looking at a black guy and being suspicious of whether he deserves to be there based on his skin color is what we call prejudice and possibly racism. A lot of us get by without having to use either one of those things. I had a great experience in school with many diverse people and the only time I questioned their acceptance when they were obviously incapable of performing and I met people of all races like this, so your litmus test for who deserves to be there and who likely doesn't is retarded in my experience.

Catawba said:

How is it someone that graduated from Harvard with the exceptional honors that Obama did, is not be qualified to get in??? Where is the proof he got in on affirmative action anyway? Isn't this just another of the racist talking points we heard from the tea party about his birth certificate???

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It goes to show you that no matter what some black/Hispanic/not white people do, their success will always be considered suspicious and illegitimate by some. That's why I don't take the "affirmative action increases tension" argument seriously - it's the argument of people who look at a President, former professor offered tenure, former president of the Harvard Law review and honors graduate of Harvard Law and only see an affirmative action black guy. Some people just can't handle it and no policy will satiate their prejudices.

Catawba said:

How is it someone that graduated from Harvard with the exceptional honors that Obama did, is not be qualified to get in??? Where is the proof he got in on affirmative action anyway? Isn't this just another of the racist talking points we heard from the tea party about his birth certificate???

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The problem is that as long as Affirmative Action exists there will always some doubts about the actual potential of its recipients (at least until they prove themselves more successful than those white folks who were also accepted, and who the doubters must presume to have been more deserving). No one likes it, but it's a trade off. While Obama has certainly shown himself to be more than merely worthy to have been accepted, in hind-sight (which, thank goodness is 20/20, especially about things like this), people who don't like him, and aren't real quick to think things all the way through are going to make these sorts of statements.

theplaydrive said:

It goes to show you that no matter what some black/Hispanic/not white people do, their success will always be considered suspicious and illegitimate by some. That's why I don't take the "affirmative action increases tension" argument seriously - it's the argument of people who look at a President, former professor offered tenure, former president of the Harvard Law review and honors graduate of Harvard Law and only see an affirmative action black guy. Some people just can't handle it and no policy will satiate their prejudices.

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And they don't need no stinkin' proof, they knows it in their hearts! :sun

Just1Voice said:

You'll never get what you want by railing against the social programs. Why not remove the stated reasons for having them to the satisfaction of a majority of those who fight to keep them in place? Cooperation nets more reliable results. I keep telling the folks on the abortion forum that they will "save more babies" if they took all that money and energy in a different direction and asked the folks that spend so much time and effort opposing them to help find alternative and peaceful ways to reduce or eliminate the reasons women have abortions, in exchange for keeping the abortion procedure safe and legal. Doesn't anyone here understand games theory even a little bit?

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Yes, just like he had to prove he was a citizen over and over and over and over and over and over again. :sun

TurtleDude said:

this isn't a court of law dude. RD already posted undeniable evidence about two law schools that show the top blacks admitted had lower scores than the bottom of the whites and asians

Here is some more information

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Dr. Sander cites as part of his study, performance indicators, which are eye opening. In the so-called elite law schools, 95% of whites had higher grades than their affirmative action counterparts and 8.2% of whites did not graduate from the elite law schools, while 19.3 of blacks failed to graduate. Professor Sander claims the rate of non-graduation for black students would fall to 13.5% without racial preferences while 8.1% of whites failed the bar exam on the first try and 38.6% of blacks failed the bar exam on the first try. Sander, again gives an astounding projection, by projecting that the bar exam failure rate for black students would fall to 20.5% without racial preferences.

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"supremacist" a person who promotes or advocates the supremacy of any particular group

From our past conversations I know that you are not a white supremacist you think you are far more intelligent then 95% of the human race

I think that Dr Sanders failed to take into account just how many non minority students have a huge advantage in thier entry exams in that they probably have access to the exams prior to taking them, just one of the benefits that non minority students have over minority students. I just look at ex-President Bush how could he have got into the same school you went to "Yale" and then how could he have graduated.

If SAT's are used to determine who gets in and who does not it appears that maybe just maybe some people get in because their daddies had contacts that normal more deserving students did not have.

Why should money or daddy ever determine who gets into our best universities any more then other factor?

theplaydrive said:

/cool story bro

You distorted my argument and then criticized me for your distortion.

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I gave you a specific cause and effect. You tried to refute the specific by appealing to the general.

Unqualified blacks and Hispanics are a specific subset of the general population of unqualified students. Blind drivers are a specific subset of the general population of bad drivers.

You claimed that there were many reasons that unqualified students had difficulty in school and those reasons didn't have anything to do with race or ethnicity. My counterexample is identical in the same form - there are many reasons that bad drivers get into accidents and they're not blind.

Your appeal to general principles doesn't address the specific principles. You really should look at taking a night school class in remedial logic.

Great. Looking at a black guy and being suspicious of whether he deserves to be there based on his skin color is what we call prejudice and possibly racism.

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At the University of Arizona and Nebraska Law Schools EVERY SINGLE BLACK LAW STUDENT had an LSAT score that was lower than the lowest scoring White and Asian students. What you're doing is saying that when someone looks at a falling ball they're assuming that gravity is pulling it downwards and that they're prejudiced for prejudging the presence of gravity and its effect on the ball. There is NO DOUBT that those black students were not qualified. It is not prejudice to acknowledge reality. You calling it prejudice doesn't make it so. Every single White and Asian student had a higher LSAT score.

RiverDad said:

I gave you a specific cause and effect. You tried to refute the specific by appealing to the general.

Unqualified blacks and Hispanics are a specific subset of the general population of unqualified students. Blind drivers are a specific subset of the general population of bad drivers.

You claimed that there were many reasons that unqualified students had difficulty in school and those reasons didn't have anything to do with race or ethnicity. My counterexample is identical in the same form - there are many reasons that bad drivers get into accidents and they're not blind.

Your appeal to general principles doesn't address the specific principles. You really should look at taking a night school class in remedial logic.

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Great and I'm telling you that my experience with elite schools is that there are just as many "unqualified" whites as blacks so I could careless about your analysis. Moreover, the fact that you harp on Obama being what you think is an "affirmative action" student after all of his success + your racist opinion that blacks are inherently less intelligent than whites makes everything you say retarded and useless to me.

At the University of Arizona and Nebraska Law Schools EVERY SINGLE BLACK LAW STUDENT had an LSAT score that was lower than the lowest scoring White and Asian students. What you're doing is saying that when someone looks at a falling ball they're assuming that gravity is pulling it downwards and that they're prejudiced for prejudging the presence of gravity and its effect on the ball. There is NO DOUBT that those black students were not qualified. It is not prejudice to acknowledge reality. You calling it prejudice doesn't make it so. Every single White and Asian student had a higher LSAT score.

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/cool story bro

Have fun assuming that all of your future bosses and presidents are "unqualified" to be in their schools.

RiverDad said:

I gave you a specific cause and effect. You tried to refute the specific by appealing to the general.

Unqualified blacks and Hispanics are a specific subset of the general population of unqualified students. Blind drivers are a specific subset of the general population of bad drivers.

You claimed that there were many reasons that unqualified students had difficulty in school and those reasons didn't have anything to do with race or ethnicity. My counterexample is identical in the same form - there are many reasons that bad drivers get into accidents and they're not blind.

Your appeal to general principles doesn't address the specific principles. You really should look at taking a night school class in remedial logic.



At the University of Arizona and Nebraska Law Schools EVERY SINGLE BLACK LAW STUDENT had an LSAT score that was lower than the lowest scoring White and Asian students. What you're doing is saying that when someone looks at a falling ball they're assuming that gravity is pulling it downwards and that they're prejudiced for prejudging the presence of gravity and its effect on the ball. There is NO DOUBT that those black students were not qualified. It is not prejudice to acknowledge reality. You calling it prejudice doesn't make it so. Every single White and Asian student had a higher LSAT score.

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I looked but could not find a study to determine whether more white and asian students had tutoring or access to LSAT tests prior to taking the test, how would you explain the difference in test scores? Do you think that whites and asians have more potential intelligence then other races?

Elite institutions admit people for a variety of reasons and grades/scores are just two of those reasons and it's been becoming more and more clear that those aren't the only reasons. A person's edge could be race, gender, background, extracurricular, essays/supplements, recommendations, place of origin (international students) and handful of other things. It's no longer acceptable to just be white with a 4.0 and this clearly upsets some people - sucks for you.

Fact is, elite schools don't admit people who they think will hurt their gpa average or bring the name of their school down because they're all about competition, so all this bitchin' and moaning from people who feel the need to focus on the undergrad gpa of their president is just as legitmate as the arguments from those who focused on his birth certificate. It doesn't matter if you think they're "unqualified" - clearly people who admit students to the most competitive schools disagree.

RiverDad said:

I gave you a specific cause and effect. You tried to refute the specific by appealing to the general.

Unqualified blacks and Hispanics are a specific subset of the general population of unqualified students. Blind drivers are a specific subset of the general population of bad drivers.

You claimed that there were many reasons that unqualified students had difficulty in school and those reasons didn't have anything to do with race or ethnicity. My counterexample is identical in the same form - there are many reasons that bad drivers get into accidents and they're not blind.

Your appeal to general principles doesn't address the specific principles. You really should look at taking a night school class in remedial logic.



At the University of Arizona and Nebraska Law Schools EVERY SINGLE BLACK LAW STUDENT had an LSAT score that was lower than the lowest scoring White and Asian students. What you're doing is saying that when someone looks at a falling ball they're assuming that gravity is pulling it downwards and that they're prejudiced for prejudging the presence of gravity and its effect on the ball. There is NO DOUBT that those black students were not qualified. It is not prejudice to acknowledge reality. You calling it prejudice doesn't make it so. Every single White and Asian student had a higher LSAT score.

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Where is the proof that Obama got into Harvard on affirmative action? Has someone posted this and I missed it?

EarlzP said:

"supremacist" a person who promotes or advocates the supremacy of any particular group

From our past conversations I know that you are not a white supremacist you think you are far more intelligent then 95% of the human race..

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oh snap!!!!

theplaydrive said:

In conclusion, view any black person in a top college with suspicion and assume they're dumb as ****.

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yes, that appears to be the logic behind all of this:

show me a black person at Harvard, Yale, or Princeton and I'll show you a dumbass who got in due to affirmative action.

TurtleDude said:

Tell me-what did Obama have on his application that overcame a less than B plus average at Columbia-an average that was several deviations below scores that caused 90% or more of whites to be rejected

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please provide evidence of Obama's graduating B- average at Columbia.

I feel like we have similar base intellectual abilities. He is a lot older than me and has been exposed to much much more, so I would say he is smarter than me.

TurtleDude said:

doesn't affirmative action cast suspicion on blacks who have degrees from top schools?

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yes, affirmative action is clearly used as an excuse for racists to doubt the intelligence of blacks and women who graduated from top schools.

Has anyone looked at who it is here that thinks they are smarter than Obama????

1. Beaker
2. digsbe
3. Gipper
4. Henrin
5. Kandahar
6. ksu_aviator
7. OscarB63
8. PerfectStorm
9. Red Crow
10. spud_meister
11. TurtleDude

Catawba said:

Has anyone looked at who it is here that thinks they are smarter than Obama????

1. Beaker
2. digsbe
3. Gipper
4. Henrin
5. Kandahar
6. ksu_aviator
7. OscarB63
8. PerfectStorm
9. Red Crow
10. spud_meister
11. TurtleDude

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Oh wow. I don't even know why I'm even posting in this thread. I'll say 2-3 of those names are potentially valid.

theplaydrive said:

Oh wow. I don't even know why I'm even posting in this thread. I'll say 2-3 of those names are potentially valid.

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Perhaps you have read different posts than I have, or you are just being very generous.

Catawba said:

Perhaps you have read different posts than I have, or you are just being very generous.

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How come your name is not on the list of smarter than nObama?

Red Crow said:

How come your name is not on the list of smarter than nObama?

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Because my ego is not so over-inflated that I think I am am smarter than the President.

Here are Obama's credentials:

"Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review based on his grades and a writing competition.[18] In his second year he was elected president of the Law Review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors.[19] Obama's election in February 1990 as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review was widely reported and followed by several long, detailed profiles.[19] He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991 and returned to Chicago where he had worked as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley & Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990."
EDUCATION CREDENTIALS OF CANDIDATES - Begonya Plaza

Let's see yours?

Catawba said:

Has anyone looked at who it is here that thinks they are smarter than Obama????

1. Beaker
2. digsbe
3. Gipper
4. Henrin
5. Kandahar
6. ksu_aviator
7. OscarB63
8. PerfectStorm
9. Red Crow
10. spud_meister
11. TurtleDude

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In math terms, the comparison of how much two individuals know is, at best, a partial ordering. It is possible to say that one knows everything which another knows, but it is also possible (and almost always) that two are not comparable. That is, each knows something the other doesn't. Comparability is much more likely for a fixed subject. In mathematics, most sciences and IQ (as we measure), I would put myself ahead of Obama. I don't hesitate to believe that there are areas he knows more than me.