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What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

Henrin said:
Nope. A minimum wage of 7.00 dollars is no different than a minimum wage of 50.00 dollars. The idea is economically unsound.
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Spoken like someone who does not have to live on minimum wage. Thank you.
 
lpast said:
Thats why the whining that the Poor and Middleclass that are powerless abuse the rich is just garbage, the rich manipulate EVERYTHING from the economy to politics, some whine the rich pay to much taxs...thats because the rich have to much of the WEALTH, which they got off the poor and middleclass
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again you make stupid generalizations. the vast majority of the "rich" be that a group that starts where the top tax rate starts (200K of income) or the top one percent (380k) of taxpayers do not have the power to Manipulate ANYTHING

and your moronic charges that they got their wealth off the poor and middle class is just moronic. You don't seem to understand the concept of value provided and value received.
 
haymarket said:
How can you participate in a discussion but yet be completely and utterly oblivious to the main points of that discussion? I know - willful blindness brought on by an ideological belief system.

The facts are undeniable: capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than income would be for the people most likely to hold investments that pay decent levels of capital gains .... guess who that would be Turtle???????
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you whine about capital gains based on your faith based belief that its wrong for the rich to have more of them than the poor.

just about everyone who pays taxes pays lower rates on CG than on earned income
 
haymarket said:
Spoken like someone who does not have to live on minimum wage. Thank you.
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well you have no problem with those who pay little or no federal income tax whining about those who do so what is your damage?
 
lpast said:
You may not want them to die henrin but you certainly dont give a chit if they have food on the table...
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If you care you can pay. I know what a hard concept. YOU paying for what YOU care about. What is the world coming to when YOU pay for what YOU want. I swear there is something horrible afoot.

theres a minimum wage because there was unscrupulous dirtbags that worked people for just about nothing kind of like the employers that hire illegals for less than minimum wage because they know they cant complain
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They hire illegals because those people are out of the market of competitive worker wages. The minimum wage isn't even in the equation.

......working for 7 bucks an hour today is working for nothing.
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You keep just proving my point.
 
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haymarket said:
Spoken like someone who does not have to live on minimum wage. Thank you.
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I did not long ago. What my experiences have to do with facts is interesting though.
 
lpast said:
You may not want them to die henrin but you certainly dont give a chit if they have food on the table...theres a minimum wage because there was unscrupulous dirtbags that worked people for just about nothing kind of like the employers that hire illegals for less than minimum wage because they know they cant complain......working for 7 bucks an hour today is working for nothing.
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You mean like Gov Rick Perry who is in the process of having a bill passed that allows illegal immigrants to work in Texas
 
Henrin said:
I did not long ago. What my experiences have to do with facts is interesting though.
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facts? Which facts would those be exactly?

Like the one i commented on from you?

A minimum wage of 7.00 dollars is no different than a minimum wage of 50.00 dollars
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I suspect a first grader can tell you what is wrong with your "fact".
 
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TurtleDude said:
well you have no problem with those who pay little or no federal income tax whining about those who do so what is your damage?
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I realize you are simply attacking me but if you go back and read your statement you will see that you lied. I have repeatedly stated that I feel that ALL people who earn income should pay federal income tax. So why do you lie saying I have no problem with it? As to supporting anyone in America exercising their rights of free speech - yup - thats just me being mom and apple pie patriotism again.
 
haymarket said:
I realize you are simply attacking me but if you go back and read your statement you will see that you lied. I have repeatedly stated that I feel that ALL people who earn income should pay federal income tax. So why do you lie saying I have no problem with it? As to supporting anyone in America exercising their rights of free speech - yup - thats just me being mom and apple pie patriotism again.
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your post confirms what I said. You support those who don't pay much taxes whining about those who pay lots of taxes

remind me HOW I lied?
 
Catawba said:
You are totally misrepresenting what he said. Are you that dense, or just being dishonest?
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I misrepresented nothing. I quoted his words exactly as he typed them. My first question directly goes to what he said. The second question was asked for a reason which will be uncovered later.
 
LesGovt said:
I misrepresented nothing. I quoted his words exactly as he typed them. My first question directly goes to what he said. The second question was asked for a reason which will be uncovered later.
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I love the quote function! It makes it so easy to expose dishonesty.

David D. said:
Les, these are exactly what campaign contributions are. Do you think Goldman Sachs gave Obama a million bucks in 2008 because they were move to tears by his “Yes We Can” speech? I don’t think so. When corporations give money it’s for a reason, and I also think the decisions of the largest corporations are generally controlled by those who are wealthiest in our country. Congresspeople want to get reelected and it’s only natural to keep your largest donors in mind when voting. This is not to say that they don’t have a free will and opinions of their own, just saying that money talks in many situations.
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LesGovt said:
Can you show the quid pro quo? Are you saying that you would not vote your conscience if you were a Representative?
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:sun
 
I love the quote function too. Nothing wrong with either question that I asked. I just wanted to find out what his free will was when money spoke? You have a nice nite now, okay?
 
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LesGovt said:
I love the quote function too. Nothing wrong with either question that I asked. I just wanted to find out what his free will was when money spoke? You have a nice nite now, okay?
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He addressed that:

"This is not to say that they don’t have a free will and opinions of their own, just saying that money talks in many situations."


And you dishonestly ignored it with your question.
 
Catawba said:
He addressed that:

"This is not to say that they don’t have a free will and opinions of their own, just saying that money talks in many situations."


And you dishonestly ignored it with your question.
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You can have your opinion. It doesn't bother me.
 
LesGovt said:
Are you saying that you would not vote your conscience if you were a Representative?
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Who cares how much integrity I would have if I theoretically was elected into public office? I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

LesGovt said:
Can you show the quid pro quo?
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You want me to prove what dollar amount it would take to sway a congressperson? I don't know, Les, that's kind of a ridiculous question to ask. There's literally probably about a thousand different factors that would determine that. Again, you're missing the point.

Let me put it more clearly. I believe that Congresspeople at times receive large campaign contributions from wealthy donors and that they will at times vote in accord with their donors interests to (a) say "thanks" for the contribution and (b) say "hey, maybe contribute to my next run for office".
 
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haymarket said:
facts? Which facts would those be exactly?

Like the one i commented on from you?

I suspect a first grader can tell you what is wrong with your "fact".
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Can you? Are you aware of how the market works to even put up a good counterargument that would seem it could be feasible and yet be still wrong? You see I have seen many people try to counter that fact with many things and while I had the pleasure of dealing with deniers of truth that actually know economics I have spent far to much of my time dealing with just idiots.
 
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David D. said:
Who cares how much integrity I would have if I theoretically was elected into public office? I fail to see the point you're trying to make.
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Earlier you stated that our Representatives accepted campaign funds from wealthy people and that the money talked. The implication is that Congressmen will vote a certain way not based on principle, but based on a campaign "bribe." If you are accusing them of being unprincipled, I was just curious if you too would be unprincipled if you were elected.

David D. said:
You want me to prove what dollar amount it would take to sway a congressperson? I don't know, Les, that's kind of a ridiculous question to ask. There's literally probably about a thousand different factors that would determine that. Again, you're missing the point.

Let me put it more clearly. I believe that Congresspeople at times receive large campaign contributions from wealthy donors and that they will at times vote in accord with their donors interests to (a) say "thanks" for the contribution and (b) say "hey, maybe contribute to my next run for office".
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Here you again prove what I was asking about. "Congresspeople at times receive large campaign contribtions from wealthy donors and that they will at times vote in accord with their donors interests..." You are saying that Congressment will be unprincipled "at times" and vote against their consciences in order to get more money from the contributor. That is a quid pro quo. This is why I asked if you had proof. I did not ask you how much it would take to get the Congressman to perform a quid pro quo. I asked for proof that it happens. And, if it happens to Congressmen where they give up their principles to vote for something their contributor wants, then the question is appropriate as to whether you would.
 
LesGovt said:
Earlier you stated that our Representatives accepted campaign funds from wealthy people and that the money talked. The implication is that Congressmen will vote a certain way not based on principle, but based on a campaign "bribe." If you are accusing them of being unprincipled, I was just curious if you too would be unprincipled if you were elected.
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To answer on a personal note, yes I'd like to think that I would maintain my own personal principles and beliefs if I were to be elected into public office.



LesGovt said:
I asked for proof that it happens
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Rod Blagojevich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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lpast said:
It comes with the ability to pay....there are many so called conservatives on here who say there should not be a minimum wage...tell me how can a single person live on 7.00 an hour...even in the cheapest cost of living area in the country.....The top pay the most because they have it and family of 4 making two minimum wage salaries cant MAKE it...they still pay sales tax and all the other fees...
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Well, in my world, "minimum" doesn't have the same meaning as "living". Are you saying a 16 year old working at McDonalds should earn a "living" wage? Having said that, should anyone working there make a "living" wage? When push comes to shove, they could take the illegal Mexican model and just pack into a small apartment like sardines.

By the way. Do you know how many people making minimum wage are raising families on it? Less than one-sixth. Hardly a concern.

Guess they shoulda thought about that before they fumbled through high school getting stoned.
 
David D. said:
To answer on a personal note, yes I'd like to think that I would maintain my own personal principles and beliefs if I were to be elected into public office.
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If Congressmen would accept a quid pro quo, but you would not, why are they different from you?

David D. said:
Rod Blagojevich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Where is the quid pro quo with wealthy businessmen attempting to "bribe" Blagojevich with campaign funds? I don't see the comparison. If you are now saying that there are corrupt politicians, then I will agree with you. There are corrupt janitors, high school teachers, bankers, truck drivers, and, yes, politicians. That does not mean that most are or even many are. Blago was the one who wanted others to "pay to play." It wasn't wealthy people seeking to play by paying.
 
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Henrin said:
Can you? Are you aware of how the market works to even put up a good counterargument that would seem it could be feasible and yet be still wrong? You see I have seen many people try to counter that fact with many things and while I had the pleasure of dealing with deniers of truth that actually know economics I have spent far to much of my time dealing with just idiots.
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I can only conclude from your comments that you are intentionally being as obtuse as humanly possible to avoid facing the reality of the complete ridiculousness of your statement that 7 bucks an hour is the same as 50 bucks an hour.

A minimum wage of 7.00 dollars is no different than a minimum wage of 50.00 dollars
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I think you're being obtuse with regards to macroeconomic impact. Seriously, what do you think will happen if minimum wage suddenly increased to 50 bucks an hour? Minimum wage is a price floor. If you raise the floor, everything above the floor goes up too. See where I'm getting at?

I know even you can't possibly think that minimum wage can go up while everything else stays the same.
 
LesGovt said:
If Congressmen would accept a quid pro quo, but you would not, why are they different from you?
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Les, this is not a strong argument. I could easily just have said that perhaps I would accept a quid pro quo; maybe vote to favor deregulation of a certain industry’s law with the expectation that when I leave office I will be handed a nice upper-level position in that industry, ensuring my family’s security - who knows? What value does this add to the discussion?

I'm just one person out of millions and millions of people who could potentially serve in Congress, with each person having has his/her own story, own background, own motives, own goals, own values, own morals, ect. That's why I said what matter does it make? Every person is different.



LesGovt said:
Where is the quid pro quo with wealthy businessmen attempting to "bribe" Blagojevich with campaign funds? I don't see the comparison. If you are now saying that there are corrupt politicians, then I will agree with you. There are corrupt janitors, high school teachers, bankers, truck drivers, and, yes, politicians. That does not mean that most are or even many are. Blago was the one who wanted others to "pay to play." It wasn't wealthy people seeking to play by paying.
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Good point about Blago.

Here are some more cases below, and remember, these were just the folks that were caught:

The Political Graveyard: Politicians in Trouble or Disgrace: Bribery
 
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David D. said:
Les, this is not a strong argument. I could easily just have said that perhaps I would accept a quid pro quo; maybe vote to favor deregulation of a certain industry’s law with the expectation that when I leave office I will be handed a nice upper-level position in that industry, ensuring my family’s security - who knows? What value does this add to the discussion?
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The purpose of the question is not necessarily to make an argument. It is more to get you to think about what you are saying. I would hope you would not succumb to a "bribe." I would hope that you would vote your conscience. On the other hand, you could be unprincipled and would take any offer that came your way. I would hope the latter would not be correct. Now, if you would not commit a quid pro quo, are our Congresspeople really less principled than you are? I doubt that. Could a person take a "bribe" in order to get a position later on? Sure. Does that happen often? I doubt it.

David D. said:
I'm just one person out of millions and millions of people who could potentially serve in Congress, with each person having has his/her own story, own background, own motives, own goals, own values, own morals, ect. That's why I said what matter does it make? Every person is different.
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And the great vast majority of anything is principled. The small minority are not. That is not exclusive to politics or wealthy people or businessmen.

David D. said:
Good point about Blago.

Here are some more cases below, and remember, these were just the folks that were caught:

The Political Graveyard: Politicians in Trouble or Disgrace: Bribery
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I'll check this out. My guess is that there are very few cases versus the number of different people who served in Congress during the years provided by your link.
 
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