• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What purpose did the tax cut for the wealthiest serve?

haymarket said:
Is this suppose to be a substitute for a well researched and analytical step by step case supporting your opinion?
Click to expand...

Sometimes simplicity is the best response
 
haymarket said:
On the subject of FAIR SHARE



this fellow said all that needs to be said about that

I Don't Care - YouTube
Click to expand...

yeah you have spammed that youtube before but since you don't have the ability to actually post what you think is a definition of fair share, its rather cowardly to whine about someone else's that is tied to objective reality
 
TurtleDude said:
Sometimes simplicity is the best response
Click to expand...

Simplicity and a simple minded response which ignores all substance of the components of actual debate are two very different things.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't pretend to be a member of the party but I generally agree with them on that. I have opposed having massive military presence in nations that don't require it for our own safety
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you agree with cutting our wasteful military spending! That could reduce our government spending by $350 billion a year.
 
haymarket said:
Simplicity and a simple minded response which ignores all substance of the components of actual debate are two very different things.
Click to expand...

Yes I saw your response to my requesting you proffer a definition of a fair share of taxes.
 
Catawba said:
Glad to hear you agree with cutting our wasteful military spending! That could reduce our government spending by $350 billion a year.
Click to expand...

that's nothing compared to what we could save if we got rid of all those un and extra constitutional darlings you lefties love.
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah you have spammed that youtube before but since you don't have the ability to actually post what you think is a definition of fair share, its rather cowardly to whine about someone else's that is tied to objective reality
Click to expand...

You don't seem to get it.

I Don't Care - YouTube

Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are ideologically biased and ignore the reality that the vast majority of people have to live with. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are intentionally adopted to pretend that regardless of how much money someone has, they can afford to pay the same percentage of taxes. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are based on the delusion that there is some relationship akin to retail shopping where you fill your cart with only the items you want to pay for then proceed to the check out and write the check. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are based on a totally bogus understanding of the societal implications of an unhealthy and unsustainable system of taxation in which the income of many of the wealthy are taxed at far lower and more discriminatory rates in their favor that income of average working people.

Their is nothing FAIR about this.

So I do not care about your FAIR SHARE strawman.
 
American said:
Damn right it's well reasoned, and absolutely true. Why else would you want other people's money, unless you are greedy. It's not YOUR ****ing money, you didn't earn it.
Click to expand...

If you don't believe in taxation than you pay for the GOP war in Iraq!
 
haymarket said:
You don't seem to get it.

I Don't Care - YouTube

Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are ideologically biased and ignore the reality that the vast majority of people have to live with. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are intentionally adopted to pretend that regardless of how much money someone has, they can afford to pay the same percentage of taxes. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are based on the delusion that there is some relationship akin to retail shopping where you fill your cart with only the items you want to pay for then proceed to the check out and write the check. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are based on a totally bogus understanding of the societal implications of an unhealthy and unsustainable system of taxation in which the income of many of the wealthy are taxed at far lower and more discriminatory rates in their favor that income of average working people.

Their is nothing FAIR about this.

So I do not care about your FAIR SHARE strawman.
Click to expand...

My bad-we are back to this again

the rich have the money and society needs it

as long as society wants more taxes on the rich the rate will be fair
 
TurtleDude said:
that's nothing compared to what we could save if we got rid of all those un and extra constitutional darlings you lefties love.
Click to expand...

What would that be? SS and Medicare are Constitutional according the rule of law in this country. And, SS has not added one dime to our debt.
 
Catawba said:
If you don't believe in taxation than you pay for the GOP war in Iraq!
Click to expand...

I have a great idea--we libertarians and conservatives pay for the government programs we support and you libs pay for the crap you want.

whose taxes do you think are gonna go down?
 
haymarket said:
You don't seem to get it.

I Don't Care - YouTube

Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are ideologically biased and ignore the reality that the vast majority of people have to live with. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are intentionally adopted to pretend that regardless of how much money someone has, they can afford to pay the same percentage of taxes. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are based on the delusion that there is some relationship akin to retail shopping where you fill your cart with only the items you want to pay for then proceed to the check out and write the check. Your FAIR SHARE assumptions are based on a totally bogus understanding of the societal implications of an unhealthy and unsustainable system of taxation in which the income of many of the wealthy are taxed at far lower and more discriminatory rates in their favor that income of average working people.

Their is nothing FAIR about this.

So I do not care about your FAIR SHARE strawman.
Click to expand...

Well said, I don't think people understand what the phrase "you can't squeeze blood from a turnip" means and the cure response sometimes given of "but you can get turnip juice" shows how seriously these people actually take the situation. If the best you can do is "turnip juice", then it is clear that the wealthy who whine about paying their fair share in taxes are so well off that they have nothing better too do than complain about paying a little chump change to the governmental system that allowed them to become so wealthy
 
TurtleDude said:
My bad-we are back to this again

the rich have the money and society needs it

as long as society wants more taxes on the rich the rate will be fair
Click to expand...

Your starting to catch on .. don't forget society includes the wealthy :)
 
TurtleDude said:
My bad-we are back to this again

the rich have the money and society needs it

as long as society wants more taxes on the rich the rate will be fair
Click to expand...

You really do NOT get it at all. There is no FAIR. There is no FAIR for anyone. Life is not FAIR and never was suppose to be.

What part of that is difficult to grasp? There is no FAIR.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have a great idea--we libertarians and conservatives pay for the government programs we support and you libs pay for the crap you want.

whose taxes do you think are gonna go down?
Click to expand...

We had an entire thread in Economics where we looked at your retail shopping model of taxation - where you only pay for what you want to use - and it was sliced and diced, smashed and trashed, and thoroughly destroyed every inch of the way. Even you yourself admitted it did not work. Are you back to that now?

Here it is again for the benefit of both yourself and all others interested in that idea you floated repeatedly in post after post and in thread after thread.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/economics/104349-taxation-retail-shopping-model.html
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
I have a great idea--we libertarians and conservatives pay for the government programs we support and you libs pay for the crap you want.

whose taxes do you think are gonna go down?
Click to expand...


Sort of like two different countries, eh? Rick "secession" Perry is your man! Who knows, you might even be able to convince him to support your stated position that money is more valuable than some people! :sun
 
TurtleDude said:
more stupidity in that post. You assume tax cuts for the rich sacrifice the economy when the tax cuts for other people does not?

what i know is that rich haters like you pretend that the rich are responsible for the problems this country faces when in reality, the rich cannot outvote the masses and thus politicians cater to the most votes
Click to expand...

Turtle sense you seem to know why dont you tell us...
 
Catawba said:
Who knows, you might even be able to convince him to support your stated position that money is more valuable than some people! :sun
Click to expand...

And yet here you are, on a computer, paying for electricity to power the computer, eating and drinking, and there are people starving in Somalia. Clearly you are valuing your money more than you value their lives.
 
RiverDad said:
And yet here you are, on a computer, paying for electricity to power the computer, eating and drinking, and there are people starving in Somalia. Clearly you are valuing your money more than you value their lives.
Click to expand...
No, but there is nothing we can do about Somalia. We could try and establish some sort of government there to provide for the people, but our track record of that isn't very good. We could give money or food, but let's face facts, the varous warlords end up with most of the aid sent in. We can, however, help the people in this country.
 
RiverDad said:
And yet here you are, on a computer, paying for electricity to power the computer, eating and drinking, and there are people starving in Somalia. Clearly you are valuing your money more than you value their lives.
Click to expand...

When have I ever stated that I oppose my tax dollars being used to help people, as the Turtledude has over and over again??? Feel free to quote me, if you can! :sun
 
Catawba said:
When have I ever stated that I oppose my tax dollars being used to help people, as the Turtledude has over and over again??? Feel free to quote me, if you can! :sun
Click to expand...

Don't move the goal posts to hide your hypocrisy. You didn't say anything about taxes. You said "that money is more valuable than some people!" You have money, you're spending money to buy entertainment. People in Africa are dying and they wouldn't be if you sent them all of your money. You're not sending them all of your money. Ergo, you find that your money is more valuable than some people. Own up to it. The case is crystal clear. You can't talk your way out of the standards that you yourself set down.
 
RiverDad said:
And yet here you are, on a computer, paying for electricity to power the computer, eating and drinking, and there are people starving in Somalia. Clearly you are valuing your money more than you value their lives.
Click to expand...

I don't know about Catawba, but in a world where some people are limited in their abilities to reach others that are in need, sometimes, a little grass movement never hurts. Simply bouncing ideas around, working through problems, hearing the different sides on issues all helps people to become informed and make better decisions. Debating is actually productive, unless of course one does not take it seriously. I also do not oppose my tax dollars going to the betterment of others.
 
RiverDad said:
Don't move the goal posts to hide your hypocrisy. You didn't say anything about taxes. You said "that money is more valuable than some people!" You have money, you're spending money to buy entertainment. People in Africa are dying and they wouldn't be if you sent them all of your money. You're not sending them all of your money. Ergo, you find that your money is more valuable than some people. Own up to it. The case is crystal clear. You can't talk your way out of the standards that you yourself set down.
Click to expand...

While it is true that some people could be doing more .. it is mighty presumptuous of you to assume that people aren't making efforts to make things better.

Secondly, simply because a messenger fails in being perfect and following that an ethical imperative to the letter, does not make that imperative any less true.

Dodging out of arguments in that manner is not becoming.
 
MusicAdventurer said:
While it is true that some people could be doing more .. it is mighty presumptuous of you to assume that people aren't making efforts to make things better.
Click to expand...

I take Catawba at his word. He chastises people who believe that "money is more valuable than some people!" If he is chastising people for holding this common position then, like Caesar's wife, he should be beyond reproach. If he has any money that he spends beyond that required to keep himself alive, then he too is valuing money, and the things it buys him, over other people's lives.

I'm not holding him to a standard that I seek to impose on him, he's seeking to shame people for holding that standard.

Secondly, simply because a messenger fails in being perfect and following that an ethical imperative to the letter, does not make that imperative any less true.
Click to expand...

An "ethical imperative" which is ignored by almost all people isn't really worth tossing out as a method of shaming people who don't adhere to it. He doesn't adhere to it so why is he trying to use a sanctimonious charge to shut up others?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom