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Should the Embargo with Cuba be lifted?

Embargo?

  • End Embargo

    Votes: 53 84.1%

  • Keep Embargo

    Votes: 10 15.9%
  • Total voters
    63
VanceMack said:
You and others actually think the Castro government will begin a 'trade' relationship with the US. You actually believe they will import our products and sell them. You dont give ANY thought to the rtelationship, the existence of Cubans, their lives, what if anything an embargo would actually do to help the average citizen vs what it would do to stregthen and finance their government. You keep making **** up on the fly. No...you didnt think this out at ALL. You gave it the good ol kneejerk liberal head bob.
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Of all the dumb knee jerk things I have ever read – labeling an increase in free trade a liberal head bob ranks up there as one of the strangest.
 
VanceMack said:
You and others actually think the Castro government will begin a 'trade' relationship with the US. You actually believe they will import our products and sell them. You dont give ANY thought to the rtelationship, the existence of Cubans, their lives, what if anything an embargo would actually do to help the average citizen vs what it would do to stregthen and finance their government. You keep making **** up on the fly. No...you didnt think this out at ALL. You gave it the good ol kneejerk liberal head bob.
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If you had read what I posted, instead of inventing straw men, you'd realize that there are areas in which the cubans would definitely trade with us. It is you who have to dishonestly ignore what's been said just to have something to say. The facts are against you, and so you have to make up absurd rants to rationalize yor emotional reaction to the idea of ending the boycott.

You and other rightwingers s actually think the Castro government will NOT begin a 'trade' relationship with the US. You actually believe they will NOT import our products and sell them. You dont give ANY thought to the rtelationship, the existence of Cubans, their lives, what if anything an ened to the embargo would actually do to help the average citizen and what it would do to weaken their government. You keep making **** up on the fly. No...you didnt think this out at ALL. You gave it the good ol kneejerk wingnut rightie head bob.
 
ARealConservative said:
Of all the dumb knee jerk things I have ever read – labeling an increase in free trade a liberal head bob ranks up there as one of the strangest.
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I was wondering about that as well. Frankly I can easily see Cuba as a Monte Carlo style gambling resort and tourism spot. This would open all kinds of new jobs for the people there. Sure, there would be corruption and things like that. However, for the US or its citizens to criticize something like that would be rather foolish, as it's how things work here as well.

Americans would be lining up for resort management, chef, engineer and all types of jobs there as well. I lived in Florida for many years and knew many Cubans, hell in school my best friend was a refugee. Oddly, without a government in the way we all got along pretty damn good.
 
sangha said:
If you had read what I posted, instead of inventing straw men, you'd realize that there are areas in which the cubans would definitely trade with us. It is you who have to dishonestly ignore what's been said just to have something to say. The facts are against you, and so you have to make up absurd rants to rationalize yor emotional reaction to the idea of ending the boycott.

You and other rightwingers s actually think the Castro government will NOT begin a 'trade' relationship with the US. You actually believe they will NOT import our products and sell them. You dont give ANY thought to the rtelationship, the existence of Cubans, their lives, what if anything an ened to the embargo would actually do to help the average citizen and what it would do to weaken their government. You keep making **** up on the fly. No...you didnt think this out at ALL. You gave it the good ol kneejerk wingnut rightie head bob.
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On the contrary...I realize very much the two very distinct 'Cubas'. I realize the Cuba for the very rich and the Cuba for the rest. I realize the medical care for the rich and the tourists vs the medical care for the rest of Cuba. I regonize the devastation of the average Cuban under Castro and the excesses the elite have achived and still do. I had an acquaintence...she died in 2008...she was an expat American. Lived in Cuba and loved it. Of course she loved it because she was VERY wealthy. And they loved her...because she was wealthy. Every few years she would produce a new book or go on speaking engagement and accumulate more wealth. She freely admitted she could never do such a thing in Cuba, while ignoring the obvious reality that the only reason she was successful was the capitalist country that she so disdained.

Cubans dont live this socialst paradise. There is no 'embargo' that is today crippling their ability to succeed. They dont trade with US...that doesnt mean they dont trade. Ending a US embargo will do precisely squat. Goods and services will still go through the government. They will still go to keeping the Castros and cronies wealthy. Until their is an ideological change in Cuba, nothing will change. I base my beliefs about Cuba and their government on reality...you base yours on more mindless ideology.
 
VanceMack said:
On the contrary...I realize very much the two very distinct 'Cubas'. I realize the Cuba for the very rich and the Cuba for the rest. I realize the medical care for the rich and the tourists vs the medical care for the rest of Cuba. I regonize the devastation of the average Cuban under Castro and the excesses the elite have achived and still do. I had an acquaintence...she died in 2008...she was an expat American. Lived in Cuba and loved it. Of course she loved it because she was VERY wealthy. And they loved her...because she was wealthy. Every few years she would produce a new book or go on speaking engagement and accumulate more wealth. She freely admitted she could never do such a thing in Cuba, while ignoring the obvious reality that the only reason she was successful was the capitalist country that she so disdained.
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You realize nothing. If you realized the facts you'd know that the avg cuban gets medical care thats equivalent to the US, at a fraction of the cost. That's why people from all over the world fly to Cuba for medical care.

Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Cubans dont live this socialst paradise. There is no 'embargo' that is today crippling their ability to succeed.
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There is no embargo? Is that why you don't want to end the non-existant embargo? :roll:

Nothing funnier than someone being opposed to ending something that doesnt exist

They dont trade with US...that doesnt mean they dont trade. Ending a US embargo will do precisely squat.
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But, but, but....didn't you just say there is no US embargo? Now you want to keep the embargo that doesn't exist?

Goods and services will still go through the government. They will still go to keeping the Castros and cronies wealthy. Until their is an ideological change in Cuba, nothing will change. I base my beliefs about Cuba and their government on reality...you base yours on more mindless ideology.
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I love the "mindfullness" of you being opposed to an embargo that you say doesn't exist! :lamo
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
We did the same thing with China and the USSR, does that mean we didn't spill blood to roll back communism in Korea and Vietnam? The Soviets bloodily protected Communism in Czechoslovakia and Hungary. You are missing the point entirely. The Kremlin knew that a nuclear war would have blasted them to hell, but after the experiences of WWII, they weren't giving an inch of ground. It's called brinkmanship
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We spilt blood because of a containment policy in regards to the Soviet Union. And even if they did have success in expanding, at one point they would've overextended.
 
Lasher said:
Communists prefer to let the Capitalists fight out against each other. The reason they do this is because they know that if they get confronted by the capitalist countries altogether, their survival would be threatened. This is how Stalin played us off against the Fascists for the first two years of the war.
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Stalin was trying to get the western powers behind a united front against Fascism in Europe. Only when that failed did he turn to agreements with Hitler such as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The western powers were trying to play Hitler off against the Soviets by attempting to appease him and hoping he would go east. This is well documented.
 
VanceMack said:
You guys all say this like it is some simple solution to peace, love, and happiness. End the embargo...and...then what? Cuba is already free to trade with most of the rest of the world. That aint helping so good. We are going to sell them...which products exactly? Nah...Im thinking thats not going to happen. We will import...what...cigars? Cuba isnt exactly a hotbed of industry and we get plenty of cheap **** from other markets already. The Cuban resort towns (and government) already benefit from the tourism trade...that doesnt filter into the economy.

What do people really think it means to 'end the embargo'? Easy to say 'words'...how is it that it is supposed to help anything? You think the government would actually embrace a change and allow the US to paint the situation differently than what Castro has created there?
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Screw Cuba! I would like to see an end to the embargo because of what's in it for us. Who give's a **** if Cuba is better off from it?
 
Divine Wind said:
Disagreed. We got into the Cuban Missile Crisis for several reasons; the primary one being our Cold War with the Soviet Union. The fact we didn't recognize Castro after he took over from Batista turned Castro to the USSR. It was more complicated than that, but that's the jist of it.
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The main reason why the Soviets got mad was our attempts to get rid of Castro. Other issues, like missiles in Turkey, were secondary.

Divine Wind said:
As for lifting the embargo, I'm for it. If our second largest trade partner and primary bank is the People's Republic of China, it seems stupid to have an embargo on a two-bit nation. The embargo is more about appeasing anti-Castroites in Miami than political ideology.
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Agreed.
 
Lasher said:
We spilt blood because of a containment policy in regards to the Soviet Union. And even if they did have success in expanding, at one point they would've overextended.
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It doesn't matter whether it was a good idea or not. Policymakers do stupid **** all the time. I have spoken to Khrushchev's son and read his biography on his father. They did not want to let go of Cuba just as we did not want to let go of West Germany.
 
sangha said:
I asked a question which you responded to. When your response is in the form of an answer, I will consider answering your question
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Dude, grow up. :roll: It's no wonder things are going for you like they are.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Knock off the personal attacks and stop discussing each other
 
I think we should do a trade first.

We will give them a Chevy Volt for every old car they give us. I know they are held together with duct tape and wire, but it would be a kick to restore them to their former glory.

Then maybe lift the embargo.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I think its time.

The US simply cannot claim its for human rights anymore, or to make sure they're not supporting a communist or totalitarian regime. Its a ludicrous argument and your foreign policy for the last 50 years does not stand up to scrutiny with it. The Cuban regime are puppy dogs compared to other regimes you have supported in the past.

With your trading policies with China since Nixon, you've basically single handedly made them one of the most powerful nations on Earth. Why all this hoohaw over Cuba?

The cold war is over and has been for a long time, opening up your markets to Cuba and restoring relations could very well hasten Cubas long road to democracy. Isolating it seems to have only strengthened the regime.

Oh wait yeah... we gotta win Florida with the large Cuban expat population.

How stupid of me :doh
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I haven't read the thread yet, and don't need to. This festering 50 year old grudge match makes us look like a bunch of sulking school kids who can't get over the agony of the little guy who stole our Hostess Ho-Ho a half-century ago. The reason why is obvious, and you hit the nail on the head. Most presidential candidates know they can't win without taking the state of Florida, and they can't take Florida without the Cuban vote. One whiff of reasonable debate about why the hell we still embargo a poverty-ridden nation that is of no global consequence, and Cuban outrage overruns the national Latino community, a wave of votes that no candidate can go up against and win.

This Cuban situation has gnawed at me for decades. There's absolutely no reason for having dragged this on so long beyond political pandering taking precedence over national interest and foreign relations. Galls me to my toenails. Now to read the thread and find out who is going to want my head on a pike next to yours, lol, and who shows common sense! :mrgreen:
 
Mason66 said:
I think we should do a trade first.

We will give them a Chevy Volt for every old car they give us. I know they are held together with duct tape and wire, but it would be a kick to restore them to their former glory.

Then maybe lift the embargo.
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You are a very cruel person to threaten innocent people with a Chevy Volt. :)
 
American said:
Who will benefit the most, the US or Cuba?
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Its way past "high time" that our foreign policy be changed to do what is best for the people of other nations.
Just thinking of our own nation all the time is selfish and self centered.
Ever wonder why our nation, however good it is , is despised so much by others ?
 
earthworm said:
Its way past "high time" that our foreign policy be changed to do what is best for the people of other nations.
Just thinking of our own nation all the time is selfish and self centered.
Ever wonder why our nation, however good it is , is despised so much by others ?
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I can't disagree more strongly. We need to take our interests in primary consideration always, but I don't see how the embargo does anything of the such.
 
ARealConservative said:
I can't disagree more strongly. We need to take our interests in primary consideration always, but I don't see how the embargo does anything of the such.
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I suggest a non-interference policy when it comes to other countries. With everything going on at home right now they are off of my "giveadamn" radar.
 
Polotick said:
I suggest a non-interference policy when it comes to other countries. With everything going on at home right now they are off of my "giveadamn" radar.
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that is the biggest suck of all.

Ultimately, my political views will become a reality, but it will only happen after the idiots have basically bankrupted us and get run off by a mob of flaming pitch forks, not because of a rational course reversal.
 
ARealConservative said:
that is the biggest suck of all.

Ultimately, my political views will become a reality, but it will only happen after the idiots have basically bankrupted us and get run off by a mob of flaming pitch forks, not because of a rational course reversal.
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Well, we do need a new political atmosphere, but if that comes to pass I think it will be something completely different.
 
ARealConservative said:
Of all the dumb knee jerk things I have ever read – labeling an increase in free trade a liberal head bob ranks up there as one of the strangest.
Click to expand...

The only persons being kneejerk, dumb, or intentionally dishonest are the people that think lifting an embargo with Cuba will result in a 'free trade' environment. Are you REALLY so naive as to believe that the Cuban government will freely embrace US manufactured products in a 'free trade' environment? Or that they would even BE a viable trading partner? Or that ignoring the trade imbalance and fact that US goods wouldnt be sold in Cuba, that you believe Cuban goods sold in America wouldnt simply financially support an already oppressive regime?

SHOULD the Cuban government embrace an open capitalist trade environment...well now thats a different story.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I think its time.

The US simply cannot claim its for human rights anymore, or to make sure they're not supporting a communist or totalitarian regime. Its a ludicrous argument and your foreign policy for the last 50 years does not stand up to scrutiny with it. The Cuban regime are puppy dogs compared to other regimes you have supported in the past.

With your trading policies with China since Nixon, you've basically single handedly made them one of the most powerful nations on Earth. Why all this hoohaw over Cuba?

The cold war is over and has been for a long time, opening up your markets to Cuba and restoring relations could very well hasten Cubas long road to democracy. Isolating it seems to have only strengthened the regime.

Oh wait yeah... we gotta win Florida with the large Cuban expat population.

How stupid of me :doh
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I'm not sure we should end the embargo, but if we don't end it, we should embargo other communist nations and not pick and choose, though as it has been mentioned, I would love a Cuban cigar.
 
DashingAmerican said:
I'm not sure we should end the embargo, but if we don't end it, we should embargo other communist nations and not pick and choose, though as it has been mentioned, I would love a Cuban cigar.
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Embargoing China would destroy what is left of the American economy, drop our credit rating to the bottom and maybe even start a war. Still not sure on whether than it is a good idea or not?
 
VanceMack said:
The only persons being kneejerk, dumb, or intentionally dishonest are the people that think lifting an embargo with Cuba will result in a 'free trade' environment. Are you REALLY so naive as to believe that the Cuban government will freely embrace US manufactured products in a 'free trade' environment? Or that they would even BE a viable trading partner? Or that ignoring the trade imbalance and fact that US goods wouldnt be sold in Cuba, that you believe Cuban goods sold in America wouldnt simply financially support an already oppressive regime?

SHOULD the Cuban government embrace an open capitalist trade environment...well now thats a different story.
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The Cuban government may or may not engage in large scale trade with the U.S., but it really doesn't matter. Your attempts to shift the goalposts fail because you still have yet to post a single solid reason why we should keep the embargo going. Embargoing is highly aggressive action that should never been used with strong justification. Tourism and cigars aren't exactly vital to U.S. interests, but they are better than the nothing we get right now.
 
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