Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a ....

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

ludahai said:

If someone has a history of not paying bills, including rent, then I very much have the right to know about it and make decisions to rent out accordingly.

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Maybe someone has a job? Maybe someone has difficulty finding a job? Maybe instead of denying them residency because they haven't been paying their bills, you could take half an hour out of your day and figure out why they aren't paying the bills, maybe even point them towards a psychiatrist if they need one or a job if they need one? Then you get a tenant who trusts you, and you get the money that results from the tenant staying there. =) I know it's a crazy, unstable world out there, I'm not denying that. But maybe by helping a few people, you'll discover as I have that the world is only as crazy as you let it be. If everyone stopped twice, for a total of one hour, and asked someone who was homeless and/or jobless why, and tried to help them with their problem, I think that a lot of people would be surprised at how much improvement could be achieved. If that happened everyday, I think a lot of people would be very surprised at how many problems would mysteriously vanish overnight as people received the assistance they need. Or, you can keep judging people and banning them from the estate, as is your right, and we can just pretend like the problems in society don't affect us.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

Maybe someone has a job? Maybe someone has difficulty finding a job? Maybe instead of denying them residency because they haven't been paying their bills, you could take half an hour out of your day and figure out why they aren't paying the bills, maybe even point them towards a psychiatrist if they need one or a job if they need one? Then you get a tenant who trusts you, and you get the money that results from the tenant staying there. =) I know it's a crazy, unstable world out there, I'm not denying that. But maybe by helping a few people, you'll discover as I have that the world is only as crazy as you let it be. If everyone stopped twice, for a total of one hour, and asked someone who was homeless and/or jobless why, and tried to help them with their problem, I think that a lot of people would be surprised at how much improvement could be achieved. If that happened everyday, I think a lot of people would be very surprised at how many problems would mysteriously vanish overnight as people received the assistance they need. Or, you can keep judging people and banning them from the estate, as is your right, and we can just pretend like the problems in society don't affect us.

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And that is exactly what I would do. I don't know what you see in what I have posted that would tell you otherwise. I would like to KNOW the history and then I can go from there. I have two apartments I rent out and have never had problems with rent payments. One had a questionable history but had a decent job and she paid every month. But I have the right to know and then make my own decision.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

I agree with this. I think that crimes should be assigned a time limit after which they vanish off your record or something, if records are going to be public property. Maybe 3 years for vandalism, 5 years for small-time theft or rape, and 10-20 years for a grand theft depending on the scale. I'm thinking like 1 year for things like bankruptcy- inability to pay off a debt resulting in a short sentence or a fine. Repeat offenders for each thing get their criminal record time doubled each time, repeat sex offenders of any kind get life in jail.

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Why is rape on the same level as petty theft and not above grand theft? Shouldn't violent crimes have a higher period of time than theft? I


I do like the idea of erasing records after a certain period of time.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OhIsee.Then said:

You didn't have this forthright choice: Convicted felons shouldn’t work or live anywhere. At least half the votes would be for this option.

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No one is saying convicted felons shouldn't live or work anywhere. A lot of employers and land lords are not going to turn someone away because of a applicants past. Are you saying you would hire a convicted child molester to watch your kids?

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

I owe an apology to the people on this thread- I intended to put rape in the 10-20 years area under grand theft, I made a typo and didn't notice until now. I'm not going to edit it though because that would make everyone else look slightly odd. But no, I don't consider rape like petty theft, I consider it under the same category as grand theft. I sincerely apologize for the typo and the ensuing confusion and disdain that resulted from it.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

jamesrage said:

No one is saying convicted felons shouldn't live or work anywhere. A lot of employers and land lords are not going to turn someone away because of a applicants past. Are you saying you would hire a convicted child molester to watch your kids?

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If there is any equally qualified other baby sitter available, no. I don't think anyone is saying that criminals are better than everyone else- just that they are equal. If there was no one else available, and the man had served his time and been released, then I would, yes. He committed his crime and suffered his punishment. If a psychiatrist says he is likely to commit the same action again, then he shouldn't be in the public- he should be in a mental institution getting help until he can sort out his problems. The fact that he is in the public means that he should be able to handle all the responsibilities being in the public entails. As I stated previously, I trust the people with criminal psychology degrees who work in prisons to prevent people who are still a danger to the public to prevent them from presenting and acting on that dangerous impulse on other people.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kali said:

Landlords should mind they own. As long they getting paid why worry over it:lol:

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HAve you ever rented an apartment or house to anyone? The landloards are minding their business since they own the property and are the ones that will have to pay to fix any issues after they evict the person who was living there.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

If there is any equally qualified other baby sitter available, no. I don't think anyone is saying that criminals are better than everyone else- just that they are equal. If there was no one else available, and the man had served his time and been released, then I would, yes. He committed his crime and suffered his punishment. If a psychiatrist says he is likely to commit the same action again, then he shouldn't be in the public- he should be in a mental institution getting help until he can sort out his problems. The fact that he is in the public means that he should be able to handle all the responsibilities being in the public entails. As I stated previously, I trust the people with criminal psychology degrees who work in prisons to prevent people who are still a danger to the public to prevent them from presenting and acting on that dangerous impulse on other people.

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Largely, the system doesn't work like that. The number of released sex-offenders convicted of crimes against children who will repeat offend is much, much larger than the number who won't, excluding those convincted of statuatory rape.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Not only do you have a right to know about it, you have a right to run a background check which will reveal it. These are matters of public record.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Cephus said:

Not only do you have a right to know about it, you have a right to run a background check which will reveal it. These are matters of public record.

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As one of my favorite books says, one of my most valued rights is the right to be left alone. If you don't trust me enough to accept me without running a background check, that's fine. But I demand the right to not have that information revealed to the general public unless I choose to release it. If the police are in an investigation and I'm a suspect, I have no problem with they're having access to that information. But if I go to a restaurant and the owner won't serve me without a credit check, I have no desire for him to be able to paw through all my personal history. There's a reason that that stuff is called your personal history.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Jerry said:

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Oh joy, more dumbed-down and oversimplified financial advice from the king of dumbed-down and oversimplified financial advice himself, Dave Ramsey. :roll:

I agree with him that state universities are a good investment, I agree that working part-time while in school is a good way to pay for it, I agree with him that students can seek out scholarships, and I agree with him that it's helpful to be born in a family that plans for your future. The problem with this advice is that an 18-year-old working a crappy part-time job is barely going to be able to pay his own living expenses (much less pay for college), not everyone is eligible for scholarships, and not everyone has a family who is willing to foot the bill. Taking on debt to get a worthwhile degree from a reasonably-priced state university is absolutely a good investment.

Refusing to take on debt for anything (with your strange exception of a mortgage, which truly IS a bad investment) is not practical nor desirable for most people.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kandahar said:

Oh joy, more dumbed-down and oversimplified financial advice from the king of dumbed-down and oversimplified financial advice himself, Dave Ramsey. :roll:

I agree with him that state universities are a good investment, I agree that working part-time while in school is a good way to pay for it, I agree with him that students can seek out scholarships, and I agree with him that it's helpful to be born in a family that plans for your future. The problem with this advice is that an 18-year-old working a crappy part-time job is barely going to be able to pay his own living expenses (much less pay for college), not everyone is eligible for scholarships, and not everyone has a family who is willing to foot the bill. Taking on debt to get a worthwhile degree from a reasonably-priced state university is absolutely a good investment.

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If he helps people, how is being dumbed down a bad thing? Secondly - for being so dumbed down you certainly agree with that dumbed down advice.

Lastly, your logic doesn't work... you argue an 18 year old crappy part-time job can pay for living expense or college yet you agree it's a good debt to take on. How is it a good debt if the student cannot pay it off (via the crappy job)?

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

If you keep the sex offenders busy, they won't give a f*ck about your daughters since they can go get more legitimate fun. The more you antagonize them, the more likely they are to retaliate by raping. It gives them a sense of control over their lives when you deny them it. If you give them a job, encourage them to spend their money in ways that make them happy with life, and generally give them ways they can regain their own sense of control over their destiny, I don't think you will see them raping too many women. But then again- that would require actually spending your time and efforts to help them, and unfortunately not too many people are willing to do that. We're so scared that their past will define their future, we never give them an opportunity to change.

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Do you understand what drives a person to comit rape and sexual assault? I don't think giving them a job will fix the problem because chances are when they first commited the act they had a job and a home.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

Do they also have a right to look into their medical history, into their friendship circle, and into their daily habits? Everything a person does can effect their employment and what they do in the place they live in. Checking their criminal history to see if they have ever committed a crime is no different from checking their medical history to see if they have a history of drunkards...it's just as likely to affect their current life practices, and I find it just as ridiculous. Peoples' past habits do not define their present actions. The sooner we as a people figure that out and stop judging people based on mistakes they made previous, the better.

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What people do and have done define who they are. Running from and hiding from it do not make them instantly better people or people who will not commit further crimes and to deny people who will hire them or live on their property the right to know this is just negligance.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Ockham said:

Lastly, your logic doesn't work... you argue an 18 year old crappy part-time job can pay for living expense or college yet you agree it's a good debt to take on. How is it a good debt if the student cannot pay it off (via the crappy job)?

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Because if he goes to a public school and gets a useful degree, then he can get a non-crappy job which pays better and THEN pay off the student debt.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kandahar said:

Oh joy, more dumbed-down and oversimplified financial advice from the king of dumbed-down and oversimplified financial advice himself, Dave Ramsey. :roll:

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Kindly post your personal credentials so that we may compare them with the credentials of Dave Ramsey, and we will see which of you is the dumb one.

Real Debt Help - Get out of debt with Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover Plan - daveramsey.com

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

Yep, I guess so. If I stop responding suddenly in about a month, it means the latest kid I'm taking in raped me then killed me in my sleep, and you're proven correct.



A credit check? So now we're checking to see if they even spend correctly? What are you going to do next, investigate their dating background and give them a blood test for terminal diseases? I don't see where the line is here. It seems like people can just keep getting more and more personal. What makes what you're doing right and checking for race, gender, or musical preference wrong? I'm not saying you can't go to the police and ask for a criminal record check...I'm just saying that I should have the right to say that you can't have it. If you deny me based on that ground then whatever, I don't care- it's your loss of business, I can just go to a different place that does let me in.

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Well if they are going to be renting from me I would want to know that they will be paying their rent. Why is that such a hard thing for you to understand? Do you know how difficult it is to evict someone these days? When you apply for a mortgage they do a credit check? Should they stop doing that as well? How about for car loans and credit cards? You make no sense with your statements. You simply want to turn the other check and get it smacked as well.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

muskrat1973 said:

Do you understand what drives a person to comit rape and sexual assault? I don't think giving them a job will fix the problem because chances are when they first commited the act they had a job and a home.

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Usually what drives a person to commit rape/sexual assault is some kind of mental complex- they either wanted someone they couldn't get, or had someone they couldn't control, or they were controlled too much and need a way to vent. Much of the time, all someone needs to get rid of a control complex is some time spent where they can regain control over their lives. Just because someone has a job and a home doesn't mean they feel like they are in control- maybe there's an dominating spouse or boss that's depriving them of the decision-making power they desire. Maybe they have a gorgeous cubicle-mate whose pants they can't get into. Whatever it is, usually providing those kinds of people with the opportunity to make decisions about their work and home makes them feel better. Obviously, that won't fix 100% of problems. Sometimes people need someone else they can control, and if there is no one available they find someone attractive and force them to obey. That kind of problem requires mental therapy- but judging them and being bigoted against them doesn't help. Telling someone with that kind of a problem that because of their past, you won't give them a place to stay is most likely to just ignite their old feelings of frustration and inability to deal with the lack of control, and then they may vent on you. I find that the more power over their lives you give these people, the less likely they are to repeat their actions. Problem is, everyone is too scared to just give them that opportunity at a second chance, which is resulting in these people frequently exploding. I have dealt with the problem, having had relatives and friends who were control freaks who were unable to seize control of their own existence, and therefore tried to feel in control by controlling other people. But there are a lot of adults in the world who if put in the same circumstance would have that problem, but instead have been given opportunities by others to get ahead in life, and through control over their day-to-day actions are able to quell the need for control they feel.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Jerry said:

Kindly post your personal credentials so that we may compare them with the credentials of Dave Ramsey, and we will see which of you is the dumb one.

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To what kind of credentials are you referring? If you're talking in terms of formal education, I'm certainly more qualified than he is (I have an MBA, and he has the comparable bachelor's degree). If you're talking in terms of appealing to mass audiences with oversimplified platitudes that don't always work in practice, then I confess he probably has me beat. :roll:

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kandahar said:

To what kind of credentials are you referring? If you're talking in terms of formal education, I'm certainly more qualified than he is (I have an MBA, and he has the comparable bachelor's degree). If you're talking in terms of appealing to mass audiences with oversimplified platitudes that don't always work in practice, then I confess he probably has me beat. :roll:

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Links or you have no such thing.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kandahar said:

a criminal record can haunt people for the rest of their lives and sometimes they are never really able to overcome it and start over.

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something to think about BEFORE you commit the crime :shrug:

if people worried as much about avoiding getting a criminal record as they did about hiding one, perhaps we wouldn't be having as many of these discussions

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

something to think about BEFORE you commit the crime :shrug:

if people worried as much about avoiding getting a criminal record as they did about hiding one, perhaps we wouldn't be having as many of these discussions

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Sometimes people make stupid mistakes. If people were as forgiving regarding past mistakes and tried to help other people instead of being anxious to protect their own image, this discussion would have died like 5 pages ago...

I get it: you don't trust people who have past criminal records. I wonder if societies disdain for people with a criminal record has anything to do with the percent of criminals who are repeat offenders....

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Belgarath said:

Sometimes people make stupid mistakes.

I wonder if societies disdain for people with a criminal record has anything to do with the percent of criminals who are repeat offenders....

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yeah, funny how many people keep making the same "stupid mistakes" over and over and over again.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

OscarB63 said:

something to think about BEFORE you commit the crime :shrug:

if people worried as much about avoiding getting a criminal record as they did about hiding one, perhaps we wouldn't be having as many of these discussions

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Well, people often DON'T think before they commit crimes. That's the whole problem. But with most crimes there is no reason to punish them for life and make it difficult for them to start over...that's stupid and counterproductive, and leads to more recidivism. Now, there are obviously exceptions where it's important for an employer/landlord to know about certain crimes. But in most cases, it just makes it more difficult for people to stay on the right side of the law and get their life back together. Helping people find jobs will discourage more criminal activity, but a criminal record inhibits their ability to find a job.

Re: Should employers & landlords be prohibited from asking applicants if they have a

Kandahar said:

Well, people often DON'T think before they commit crimes. That's the whole problem. But with most crimes there is no reason to punish them for life and make it difficult for them to start over...that's stupid and counterproductive, and leads to more recidivism. Now, there are obviously exceptions where it's important for an employer/landlord to know about certain crimes. But in most cases, it just makes it more difficult for people to stay on the right side of the law and get their life back together. Helping people find jobs will discourage more criminal activity, but a criminal record inhibits their ability to find a job.

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from my experience, most employers or landlords don't give a rat's ass if you got a DUI 25 years ago or if you smoked a little weed in college. those are the kind of "stupid mistakes" that I could forgive.

I am hard pressed to think of a crime that would qualify as a "stupid mistake" that would keep someone from hiring you or renting you an apartment. can you help me out with a couple of examples?