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Was A Big Deal Ever Possible?

Was it Ever?

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EarlzP said:
How about the talks between President Obama and Speaker Boehner that Boehner walked out on
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Yes, there was an agreement in principle and then Obama changed it at the last minute. Hardly honest.

how about the talks between the gang of six that the republicans walked out on how about the talks between Reid and McConnell that McConnell walked out on. The republicans never negotiated in good faith and never intended to, This has never been about the budget or deficits it has always been about who would control the government big business or We The People.
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Have you seen my question as to why is the government allowing G.S. continue to screw us over? Those you are fighting for are the ones allowing that.
 
=1Perry;1059698438]Yes, there was an agreement in principle and then Obama changed it at the last minute. Hardly honest.
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Speaker Boehner walked out not President Obama, show me a source to show that President Obama changed any agreements that he and Boehner had agreed to in fact show me any details of that agreement, your being fed a line by the republicans and you are buying it hook line and sinker, just because Boehner said it does not make it a fact. Neither President Obama nor speaker Boehner never to my knowledge released the details of their talks to the public. Speaker Boehner had a hard time if you believe him even getting his own party to vote on his own bill.

Have you seen my question as to why is the government allowing G.S. continue to screw us over? Those you are fighting for are the ones allowing that.
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Funny I don't see the republicans or the democrats saying any thing about GS, let me think a second here, oh that's right the only people who would really be concerned with GS are those that have a vested interest in the survival of GS, I think that Wall Street should be shut down it is the biggest Ponzi scheme the rich ever came up with
 
I don’t know if anyone has noted this earlier on this thread, but here is a significant source of the dysfunction. cpwill analyzed the past election “Ergo, the President and Senate are reflective of strong Democrat elections, whereas the House is reflective of a strong Republican election.” What he missed is that the Tea Party was successful, they sit with Republicans but they bring their own dogma. The Tea Party has found themselves in a position to get some of what their dogma directs them to want. The Republicans thought that they could adopt the Tea Partiers and have them support rational politics for their constituents but they didn’t understand how difficult that would be.
 
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EarlzP said:
Speaker Boehner walked out not President Obama,
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Well, it was the White House. It's not like people generally walk out of their own place.

show me a source to show that President Obama changed any agreements that he and Boehner had agreed to in fact show me any details of that agreement, your being fed a line by the republicans and you are buying it hook line and sinker, just because Boehner said it does not make it a fact. Neither President Obama nor speaker Boehner never to my knowledge released the details of their talks to the public. Speaker Boehner had a hard time if you believe him even getting his own party to vote on his own bill.
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The Republicans made an offer: between $3 trillion and $3.5 trillion in spending reductions, and nearly $800 billion in revenue increases over 10 years through overhauling the tax code. Geithner and Daley took it back to the White House.

On Sunday, Boehner and Cantor were invited to the White House for a private, unannounced meeting with Geithner, Daley and Jacob Lew, the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget. Obama, who was at church that morning, popped in a couple of times.

The White House was agreeable to parts of the deal — notably, the proposal for nearly $800 billion in added tax revenue.

"They were willing to accept our number," the GOP aide said. The group also talked about overhauling the tax code.

"We walked out of the room thinking we were making good progress on the tax reform," the aide said.


The next day, however, a bipartisan group of senators referred to as the Gang of Six unveiled its own deficit reduction proposal that included more than $1 trillion in tax revenue.

According to the Republicans, that proposal changed the debate. Later Tuesday, the White House said it needed to see an additional $400 billion in new tax revenue, aligning it more closely with the goals in the Gang of Six proposal.


Debt talks: How the Obama-Boehner debt talks broke down - Los Angeles Times

Funny I don't see the republicans or the democrats saying any thing about GS, let me think a second here, oh that's right the only people who would really be concerned with GS are those that have a vested interest in the survival of GS, I think that Wall Street should be shut down it is the biggest Ponzi scheme the rich ever came up with
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Indeed, there are no differences in the two sides as far as being for corporate welfare. No difference outside of worthless rhetoric.
 
1Perry said:
I'm missing what plan the Dems have offered up that can pass both houses. Now it seems that both did have the basis for a plan but Obama dismissed it.
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The Reid Plan, it seems, can't even pass the Senate.



Many seniors would benefit from a bump in interest rates.[/QUOTE]
 
1Perry said:
Indeed, there are no differences in the two sides as far as being for corporate welfare. No difference outside of worthless rhetoric.
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well I don't know about that - as I recall the House 2012 Budget stripped out quite alot of tax goodies.
 
1Perry said:
Well, it was the White House. It's not like people generally walk out of their own place.



The Republicans made an offer: between $3 trillion and $3.5 trillion in spending reductions, and nearly $800 billion in revenue increases over 10 years through overhauling the tax code. Geithner and Daley took it back to the White House.

On Sunday, Boehner and Cantor were invited to the White House for a private, unannounced meeting with Geithner, Daley and Jacob Lew, the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget. Obama, who was at church that morning, popped in a couple of times.

The White House was agreeable to parts of the deal — notably, the proposal for nearly $800 billion in added tax revenue.

"They were willing to accept our number," the GOP aide said. The group also talked about overhauling the tax code.

"We walked out of the room thinking we were making good progress on the tax reform," the aide said.


The next day, however, a bipartisan group of senators referred to as the Gang of Six unveiled its own deficit reduction proposal that included more than $1 trillion in tax revenue.

According to the Republicans, that proposal changed the debate. Later Tuesday, the White House said it needed to see an additional $400 billion in new tax revenue, aligning it more closely with the goals in the Gang of Six proposal.


Debt talks: How the Obama-Boehner debt talks broke down - Los Angeles Times



Indeed, there are no differences in the two sides as far as being for corporate welfare. No difference outside of worthless rhetoric.
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The first plan that Boehner took to the House would not have passed, you cherry picked sections from the article you used as a reference, below you will see how it actually ended, Boehner picked up his marbles and went home, he never intended to reach an agreement

That number was negotiable, as the White House saw it. If Boehner wouldn't agree to that sum, maybe he would settle for less, and they'd make up the difference some other way.

"If you can't do that, then let's have another conversation," said a White House aide, summarizing Obama's part of the call.
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All they had to do was sign the agreement they had. Now there will be zero tax increases. Could have been $800 billion but the White House got greedy.
 
1Perry said:
All they had to do was sign the agreement they had. Now there will be zero tax increases. Could have been $800 billion but the White House got greedy.
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ye-up.

though Jonah Goldberg brought up a good point the other day. How can you trust a guy to fold who is incapable of realizing that he's losing?
 
I read alot of these threads and I have to smile...the haves think they own it all now...they believe their beloved teaparty is going to enhance their richs at everyone elses expense. Dont go cheering the no tax hikes and the cuts to the middle class just yet....theres alot more have nots than they are haves and when they fully awaken to the teapartys agenda and the young greedsters...the party will be over at the polls...and yes you can take that as a prediction.
 
lpast said:
I read alot of these threads and I have to smile...the haves think they own it all now...they believe their beloved teaparty is going to enhance their richs at everyone elses expense.
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I believe in nobody but myself. Maybe this is where your problems lie?

Dont go cheering the no tax hikes and the cuts to the middle class just yet....theres alot more have nots than they are haves and when they fully awaken to the teapartys agenda and the young greedsters...the party will be over at the polls...and yes you can take that as a prediction.
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Once again, the Tea Party got it's start over the outrage at the bailing out of Wall Street. They believe that all must pitch in. I realize you think that only the rich should pitch in but that is never going to work.
 
1Perry said:
All they had to do was sign the agreement they had. Now there will be zero tax increases. Could have been $800 billion but the White House got greedy.
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Not true, Speaker Boehner could not get his own initial plan approved by his own party and it contained no tax increases, you don't reall;y believe that speaker Boehner did not know that his party would not approve any plan that increased taxes in any way, he knew what he could get passed, it was nothing more then a delay tactic and a way to point the blame for no deal on the democratic party
 
EarlzP said:
Not true, Speaker Boehner could not get his own initial plan approved by his own party and it contained no tax increases, you don't reall;y believe that speaker Boehner did not know that his party would not approve any plan that increased taxes in any way, he knew what he could get passed, it was nothing more then a delay tactic and a way to point the blame for no deal on the democratic party
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Really irrelevant after Obama showed that he wasn't willing to discuss things honestly.
 
1Perry said:
Really irrelevant after Obama showed that he wasn't willing to discuss things honestly.
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Your entitled to your opinion, but your statement that President Obama was not willing to participate in an honest discussion is nothing but republican hyperbole unless you can provide a verifiable source. Apparently you and others believe that President Obama had carte blanche to approve any thing that the republicans wanted, sorry that is not the way it works you should know that because Boehner could not even get the votes to pass his own plan.

My opinion President Obama has already giving up to much and should have invoked section 4 of the 14th amendment and raised the debt ceiling.
 
EarlzP said:
Your entitled to your opinion, but your statement that President Obama was not willing to participate in an honest discussion is nothing but republican hyperbole unless you can provide a verifiable source. Apparently you and others believe that President Obama had carte blanche to approve any thing that the republicans wanted, sorry that is not the way it works you should know that because Boehner could not even get the votes to pass his own plan.

My opinion President Obama has already giving up to much and should have invoked section 4 of the 14th amendment and raised the debt ceiling.
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This is true. Obama did put compromises on the table.
 
EarlzP said:
Your entitled to your opinion, but your statement that President Obama was not willing to participate in an honest discussion is nothing but republican hyperbole unless you can provide a verifiable source.
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I provided one.
 
1Perry said:
All they had to do was sign the agreement they had. Now there will be zero tax increases. Could have been $800 billion but the White House got greedy.
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Nogoiations usually statr with a low ball price and then a high ball price and you work towards the middle. So, what you're arguing is that the WH mistakeningly thought they were in a negoiation, and not a take it or leave it?
 
Boo Radley said:
Nogoiations usually statr with a low ball price and then a high ball price and you work towards the middle. So, what you're arguing is that the WH mistakeningly thought they were in a negoiation, and not a take it or leave it?
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That's not how the way it was described to have happened. The 800 was the negotiated number. Remember the GOP wanted (and it seems got) zero.
 
1Perry said:
I provided one.
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You provided a source and as I stated you cherry picked the article and left out the end of the article or maybe you just missed it so here it is again

That number was negotiable, as the White House saw it. If Boehner wouldn't agree to that sum, maybe he would settle for less, and they'd make up the difference some other way.

"If you can't do that, then let's have another conversation," said a White House aide, summarizing Obama's part of the call.
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President Obama was willing to continue the talks, Boehner walked out, the republicans walked out of every negotiation they were involved in and would have continued if President Obama had not caved in on his balanced approach to cut the deficit.

I don't want the USA to default however I think President Obama should have stood his ground and if needed should have used the section 4 of the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling

The republicans did not negotiate in good faith, they used the debt ceiling and the threat of default to black mail President Obama, here is my advice to the republicans in 2012 when elections come around bend over and kiss your party good bye, we won't forget your tactics and your refusal to agree to a balanced approach to reduce the deficit
 
1Perry said:
That's not how the way it was described to have happened. The 800 was the negotiated number. Remember the GOP wanted (and it seems got) zero.
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If the GOP started at 800, in the negoiations with Obama, that would be reasonable to consider that the low ball number, and as such, a higher number in rebuttal should have been expected. As I understand it, tax increases will be revisited, so I wouldn't right them off just yet. However, the point here is about good faith in negoiation, if you approach me with a number, are you suggesting that I shuld not present a counter offer?
 
the GOP didn't start with 800. it started with 0. Boehner and Obama negotiated down to an agreement with 800, and then Obama apparently got backlash from his left and demanded 400 more at the last minute. at that point, boehner decided it would be more productive to work in the House. and, apparently, was correct in that assessment.

:) you can bet Obama is kicking himself for that one.
 
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EarlzP said:
You provided a source and as I stated you cherry picked the article and left out the end of the article or maybe you just missed it so here it is again
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The article notes that they had already agreed to the 800 number.
 
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