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Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 24 66.7%

  • Total voters
    36
yeah the effect the global economy has on inflated american labor costs

btw that's a neat website-what sort of format is the photography?

So what is your solution?
More people on Gov hand outs? Eventually the need for your labor will dry up as well, that, or the funds keeping you in bread and butter, then what? Move to China?
 
that's one of the most stupid claims of the year.

Not sure where you get your info from, but plenty of people live in places you wouldn't leave your dog.
Not all, mind you, but too many, those who slip through the cracks, the forgotten, the one's we rather admit do not exist. Its those who aren't at fault for the misery they find themselves in, the one's who don't make much noise, but suffer in silence. That's a no no.
Yes, you are correct, too many live a relatively comfortable live, making a career out of being entitled, taking away from those who do need a helping hand.
But don't turn from reality, pretending all is well, ignoring the facts.
 
Hate? No.

I do think there's a general inherent jealousy/envy within humans towards those who have more than you. The whole notion of "Keeping up with Joneses" comes from this. Its bred within our folklore ranging from your Robin Hood type things to your "wish" type stories where someone becomes rich/powerful/famous/etc. I think base human nature makes people, in general, at least somewhat jealous or envious of those who have a better quality of life (either honestly or just through appearance).

I do think this can go both ways as well; I think the rich can be jealous or envious at times of the lower classes depending on where in their lives they are and how involved they are perhaps with their business. For instance, a rich individual whose work consumes almost every moment of his life may be envious or jealous of one of his workers whose routinely spending time with his family, going to his kids baseball games, etc.

So I think that, to a small extent, it is within the base human nature of the average citizen to be jealous or envious of those doing better than them. The degree's of course vary. However, it is that small kernal of a feeling I think that is used as the starter fuel for those who seek to turn it more into a blaze to shift it to hatred. Victim mentality, the notion of an "underdog", the feeling of one upping someone, etc is a powerful thing in human nature as well. I believe studies have actually been done that people react in a very similar way within the brain when someone they dislike loses as opposed to them winning.

Which makes a bit of sense. Go to a Redskins fan on a week they're on bye and watch them see the Cowboys lose; you'll see much the same happiness as you'd have from them had their Skin's won. The desire to see someone else "lose" can be a powerful one in humans, and if you can combine that with that individual "winning" (Such as "we raise taxes on the wealthy and you get health care") then it becomes an even more powerful tool.

I like the way you have put this out there. I think everyone has some degree of envy in them for whatever reasons there may be. I just don't think people, as living, breathing, busy humans, go thru the daily grinds of their lives, giving a lot of thought to how much they envy someone or others. And there are times when a thought will pop in ones head, such as, "man, I sure wish we could afford to buy a nice boat like Peter, Paul and Mary have." Envying of others is a natural thing. But on occasion, it can get out of control, by individuals, which is why it's one of the seven deadly sins.
 
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Yes, it seems those of the hard right variety think it is not possible to have a strong middle class any longer, they think the only way America can compete today is by making our citizens as poor as the third world countries.

given that drugs, dropping out of HS and having kids before marriage are by far the main reasons for poverty what is taxing the rich going to do with those pathologies?
 
If the tax breaks afforded the rich by president Bush are not repealed, the rest of deficit reduction efforts have a hollow sound, and predominately effect the poor and middle class in a deterimental way.
 
Not sure where you get your info from, but plenty of people live in places you wouldn't leave your dog.
Not all, mind you, but too many, those who slip through the cracks, the forgotten, the one's we rather admit do not exist. Its those who aren't at fault for the misery they find themselves in, the one's who don't make much noise, but suffer in silence. That's a no no.
Yes, you are correct, too many live a relatively comfortable live, making a career out of being entitled, taking away from those who do need a helping hand.
But don't turn from reality, pretending all is well, ignoring the facts.

see my above post
 
If the tax breaks afforded the rich by president Bush are not repealed, the rest of deficit reduction efforts have a hollow sound, and predominately effect the poor and middle class in a deterimental way.

that is rather stupid-the tax cuts for everyone BUT The rich cost far more and also has the problem of causing many people to lose any feedback they once had over the cost of government. the rich now pay more of the federal income tax burden than at any time in the last 70 years
 
So what is your solution?
More people on Gov hand outs? Eventually the need for your labor will dry up as well, that, or the funds keeping you in bread and butter, then what? Move to China?


if people want to be paid better wages than the rest of the world, they need to have more valuable labor than the rest of the world. I give tons of money to both the prep school, college, law school and grad school I attended so intelligent hard working kids who cannot afford the places can go there
 
see my above post

You read mine, did you? I make a distinction between the want some and the need some.
Oh I do so want people to take care of themselves. If they don't want to work, they should not be supported.
But don't forget, not everyone falls into that group, have never taken drugs, cannot finish HS, because of mental or physical, DD. The real ones, not the imagined.
Look around you, look beyond your 4 walls and your friends and family, travel to remote areas. You will be surprised.
 
most of your erroneous conclusions are based on the foundational error that the government is giving the rich money. Only can someone who believes all money and wealth initially belongs to the government could make such a fundamentally wrong statement

Government certainly enacts policies which make it possible for the wealthy to make money, make more money, and pay less taxes on that money. Government by doing something or by not doing something can mean billions of dollars to corporations, industries and the wealthy who own large portions of those industries and businesses.

Here is one of the best reports written about the financial collapse. In it, it spares no sacred cows be they from the left or right side of the aisle. It shows how government plays a huge role in redistributing money and how corporations and the wealthy can benefit greatly from government.

12 Deregulatory Steps to Financial Meltdown | Common Dreams
 
if people want to be paid better wages than the rest of the world, they need to have more valuable labor than the rest of the world. I give tons of money to both the prep school, college, law school and grad school I attended so intelligent hard working kids who cannot afford the places can go there


Not everyone is intelligent, has the ability to comprehend the schooling necessary to better themselves.
Some are just laborers. We aren't all the same.
What's more, it won't be long, and jobs for the schooled, the intelligent, are gone as well. What then?
 
You read mine, did you? I make a distinction between the want some and the need some.
Oh I do so want people to take care of themselves. If they don't want to work, they should not be supported.
But don't forget, not everyone falls into that group, have never taken drugs, cannot finish HS, because of mental or physical, DD. The real ones, not the imagined.
Look around you, look beyond your 4 walls and your friends and family, travel to remote areas. You will be surprised.

where do you get the idea I don't know that? Its just not worth having more and more government intervention to deal with mostly a self induced problem. Its the libertarian position I advocate
 
Not everyone is intelligent, has the ability to comprehend the schooling necessary to better themselves.
Some are just laborers. We aren't all the same.
What's more, it won't be long, and jobs for the schooled, the intelligent, are gone as well. What then?


well what is your libertarian solution?
 
where do you get the idea I don't know that? Its just not worth having more and more government intervention to deal with mostly a self induced problem. Its the libertarian position I advocate
Thanks for asking. Yes, welfare entitlement has created a class of entitlement junkies.
So, we are going in the same direction. Again, I make a distinction between those in need and those in want.
The most feasible way to help the truly needy is at the local level, or as close to it as possible. We can't have some bureaucrats in DC design a one size fits all plan. We have to determine who is in need, and why. How can we help the individual, and what can the individual do in return, not necessarily in a salaried position? Everyone has something to offer, even if its just cleaning up the front yard, volunteering for a drug test.
We have, in our area, a wonderful program, mostly funded by charitable donations, and it could be expanded with state funding, saving money in the long run, easing the tax burden, while taking care of those in need.
Also, here are some ideas, not mine, but more eloquently presented than I ever could.
Oppose the Federal Welfare State by Rep. Ron Paul

Now you. How do we keep jobs available for everyone, that includes the academics and the dumb, and anyone in between.
 
economic reality has made that artificiality go away. deal with it.

we are no longer the only major manufacturing power like we were in the 50s

we are not the only high tech manufacturer like we were in the 60's and 70s

other countries can duplicate our hi tech ability for far less money

you want a time that will never exist again

big dumb guys cannot expect to do low skilled factory work and make as much as a mid level manager of a big company or the same as a RN or a programmer

If capitalists want to send the high paying jobs overseas, they need to understand that those "big dumb guys" wont be able to afford to buy all of the useless crap at Walmart when they're unemployed or homeless. Fair wages are necessary for the economy to function with a middle class. If CEOs and corporate managers are the only ones getting paid a decent wage, the middle class will disappear- and so will the consumer base in this country. Soon, they'll be outsourcing their consumers, as well.
 
There seems to be an ongoing theme set by some that generally, those who care about the greater good of society and propose that a fair share of taxes be imposed on the extremely wealthy, are actually extremely envious/jealous and harbor hatred for the extremely wealthy. Supposedly, this is the reason these humanitarians propose a fair tax on the extremely wealthy. So let’s see what everyone thinks. :lol:



I am extremely angry. Not with hardworking small business people who have earned their wealth and have a stake in the community; No, I am angry with the wealthy gamblers who haven't even the decency to say, "Thankyou taxpayer. Thankyou for saving my job. Thankyou for the free money from the Fed that I can loan back to you at high interest Thankyou for saving the economy which delivers so much wealth in my direction. Thankyou, I acknowledge that we messed up and the solution to banks, so big that they hold the economy hostage, is to break up these mega banks. Thankyou I realize that as a hedge fund manager I SHOULD pay earned income tax rates on my "carried interest" . Thankyou, maybe I should not have tax deductions on all 5 of my multi-million dollar homes. Thankyou, average tax payer- maybe I should not hide my wealth in tax shelters and shift the burden to you."


Sadly, the true entitlement junkies ARE the wealthy - the job destroying super rich on Wall Street. It is truly unbelievable to watch the misdirected rage of the tea party libertarians. "whack us one more time congresspeople" they seem to say, "Just do not raise taxes on those who continue to benefit most in this awful economy"

The low income elderly are the chief beneficiaries of Medicare and Medicaid- the primary targets of budget cutting Repubs.

To answer the original question- yeh I am plenty angry with the parasitic job destroying money men and I think that middle class people who understand their own interests have reason to feel the same.
 
Not everyone is intelligent, has the ability to comprehend the schooling necessary to better themselves.
Some are just laborers. We aren't all the same.
What's more, it won't be long, and jobs for the schooled, the intelligent, are gone as well. What then?

if people have no talent that is unfortunate but why does that require someone else to take care of them
 
I am extremely angry. Not with hardworking small business people who have earned their wealth and have a stake in the community; No, I am angry with the wealthy gamblers who haven't even the decency to say, "Thankyou taxpayer. Thankyou for saving my job. Thankyou for the free money from the Fed that I can loan back to you at high interest Thankyou for saving the economy which delivers so much wealth in my direction. Thankyou, I acknowledge that we messed up and the solution to banks, so big that they hold the economy hostage, is to break up these mega banks. Thankyou I realize that as a hedge fund manager I SHOULD pay earned income tax rates on my "carried interest" . Thankyou, maybe I should not have tax deductions on all 5 of my multi-million dollar homes. Thankyou, average tax payer- maybe I should not hide my wealth in tax shelters and shift the burden to you."


Sadly, the true entitlement junkies ARE the wealthy - the job destroying super rich on Wall Street. It is truly unbelievable to watch the misdirected rage of the tea party libertarians. "whack us one more time congresspeople" they seem to say, "Just do not raise taxes on those who continue to benefit most in this awful economy"

The low income elderly are the chief beneficiaries of Medicare and Medicaid- the primary targets of budget cutting Repubs.

To answer the original question- yeh I am plenty angry with the parasitic job destroying money men and I think that middle class people who understand their own interests have reason to feel the same.
so what is your solution with dealing with a few hundred of the uber wealthy. and why do these rants against the super rich whose wealth comes from OPM always end up carpetbombing everyone else who is wealthy?

and I agree with you HF managers should pay earned income on their fees. that is idiotic they do not
 
I like the way you have put this out there. I think everyone has some degree of envy in them for whatever reasons there may be. I just don't think people, as living, breathing, busy humans, go thru the daily grinds of their lives, giving a lot of thought to how much they envy someone or others. And there are times when a thought will pop in ones head, such as, "man, I sure wish we could afford to buy a nice boat like Peter, Paul and Mary have." Envying of others is a natural thing. But on occasion, it can get out of control, by individuals, which is why it's one of the seven deadly sins.

OMG what an excellent post and point! Here's how my "I wish" happens. My daughter posts on Facebook that their car may have died. I wish I were in a place where I could just buy her a new one.

Her husband gets under the hood and figures out the problem. I am relieved, and daily grateful for my Kindle, the roof over my head, and that I am fed and clothed.

:) Life is good.
 
Also, ding-ding-ding on my thought front.

Being constantly, on this forum, being accused of all manner of vile negatives because allegedly you lot are SO rich, and I'm not, is like a moment-by-moment "Are you still beating your wife, Mr. Smith?" There's no right answer, and I think y'all know that. So you just keep slinging the ****.

God, it gets old.
 
if people have no talent that is unfortunate but why does that require someone else to take care of them

But we still need something for them to do. I have heard argument after argument that we need to get away from labor/manufacturing, but not everyone is an Einstein, does have talent, or has the good fortune to put a talent to use, not everyone wants a career. Some people just want to work.
What will soon be left to do for those who aren't academics? Shall we send them to the desert without water?
We have to keep enough jobs here for everyone, otherwise soon no one will have a penny left for anything or anyone's goods or products, not even the cheap slave labor ( or non union) imports.
We can talk until we are blue in the face that people should take care of themselves, but without jobs for the gifted to the most dense, there aren't too many ways to do so.
We can only get people off Gov dole if we have something for them to get to.
 
1% hold 48% of the wealth in the US. I don't see any of it trickling down.

You don't become super duper wealthy by sharing and caring. You become super duper wealthy by marketing a product (potentially lying), paying your workers as low a salary as is possible (possibly using cheap, slave-like Chinese labor), and taking the biggest cut for yourself. You can then hire smart attorneys so that you can pay little to nothing in taxes to the country that made your getting wealthy possible.

Wealth is just holding a lot of shiny paper or pieces of paper saying you own this. These pieces of paper can then be used to barter for other men. When you have enough shiny pieces of paper you can trade a few thousand pieces of shiny paper for a man's integrity, which will allow you to acquire even more shiny pieces of paper. As you continue to buy more men, you and those like you will find themselves with most of the shiny paper in the country. You will then likely band together, allowing you to not only buy more expensive men but to also control unwilling men indirectly, by buying things such as the media corporations. Eventually you and people like you will hold nearly all the shiny pieces of paper in the country, but you still hunger for more shiny paper. You fight secret wars with the 'leaders' of the country you corrupted, fighting each other to take each-others wealth. You must keep the plebeians from taking your wealth from you, as the majority of men can easily take from the minority of men, so you convince them they too have the chance to be like you. This is the modern day.

Wealth corrupts. The wealthy are corrupted. Purify them with fire.
 
But we still need something for them to do. I have heard argument after argument that we need to get away from labor/manufacturing, but not everyone is an Einstein, does have talent, or has the good fortune to put a talent to use, not everyone wants a career. Some people just want to work.
What will soon be left to do for those who aren't academics? Shall we send them to the desert without water?
We have to keep enough jobs here for everyone, otherwise soon no one will have a penny left for anything or anyone's goods or products, not even the cheap slave labor ( or non union) imports.
We can talk until we are blue in the face that people should take care of themselves, but without jobs for the gifted to the most dense, there aren't too many ways to do so.
We can only get people off Gov dole if we have something for them to get to.

of course not-there will always be manual jobs plus the infantry. some top soldiers did not/do not have great levels of schooling.

right now one of the biggest problems is that the least able tend to have much higher birthrates than the truly gifted who tend to delay children into their late 20's early thirties. My 30th reunion in college saw dozens of classmates who had kids in the early teen age years, my ex girlfriend and her husband (who was one of my grooms in my wedding) have a son who is 8. (yeah he was adopted). but many of my classmates didn't start having children until after they had completed their residencies or made partner in their wall street law offices or investment houses etc or received tenure at the university.
 
so what is your solution with dealing with a few hundred of the uber wealthy. and why do these rants against the super rich whose wealth comes from OPM always end up carpetbombing everyone else who is wealthy?

and I agree with you HF managers should pay earned income on their fees. that is idiotic they do not

The thread topic is about anger/envy of the rich. My point is that a rational analysis of the current fiscal mess should lead to anger at the wealthy perpetrators of the current fiscal mess. Not sure what you mean about "carpet bagging" but closing loopholes and right-offs and raising taxes slightly on those who can easily afford it, is a practical matter. Small businesses need greater demand for goods far more than they need lower taxes. Wacking the incomes of lower income earners as Repubs and some Dems appear bent on doing through cuts in social spending, will reduce demand and prolong the recession. And I am still unenlightened as to what is the logic of tea party people who seem resistant even to end tax right-offs for the wealthy. What American voted for Grover Norquist for President!!? ?
 
The thread topic is about anger/envy of the rich. My point is that a rational analysis of the current fiscal mess should lead to anger at the wealthy perpetrators of the current fiscal mess. Not sure what you mean about "carpet bagging" but closing loopholes and right-offs and raising taxes slightly on those who can easily afford it, is a practical matter. Small businesses need greater demand for goods far more than they need lower taxes. Wacking the incomes of lower income earners as Repubs and some Dems appear bent on doing through cuts in social spending, will reduce demand and prolong the recession. And I am still unenlightened as to what is the logic of tea party people who seem resistant even to end tax right-offs for the wealthy. What American voted for Grover Norquist for President!!? ?


why not be angry at those who created the mess rather than worry whether they are rich or not. "right offs" LOL. those who "can afford" more taxes already pay too much. should I pay more for a car than you do because chances are I can afford more? NO because we each are getting the same value. I don't get extra value from the government paying 300K or more in FIT than you do even if you are one of those 47% who pay nothing in FIT.

what "right offs" [sic] do the rich get? even with those "right offs" [sic] they still pay almost 40% of the income tax and all the death tax and they only make 22% of the income and certainly don't have all the wealth at death
 
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