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Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

Does the average citizen harbor envy/jealousy, hatred for the extremely wealthy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 24 66.7%

  • Total voters
    36

MusicAdventurer

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There seems to be an ongoing theme set by some that generally, those who care about the greater good of society and propose that a fair share of taxes be imposed on the extremely wealthy, are actually extremely envious/jealous and harbor hatred for the extremely wealthy. Supposedly, this is the reason these humanitarians propose a fair tax on the extremely wealthy. So let’s see what everyone thinks. :lol:
 
By my experience as one of those "average'' citizens, yes, many people do.
 
By my experience as one of those "average'' citizens, yes, many people do.

If that is true .. it is very sad .. do you have any ideas why they might have such views and feelings? Do you think there is any reason in particular that could lead to these feelings? What kinds of people have you found that feel that way?
 
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gollum.jpg

We wants it... We wants it...
 
Sure people do.
but i thinking raising their taxes still wont make the rich "suffer", and bring them down to the "terrible conditions" of us (the average citizen).
 
Hatred certainly not

Envy most likely

Would I like to have the wealth of Larry Ellison, the number of homes, ships, planes that he does? Certainly. Do I feel he should not have it? No, but can he afford to pay a higher % of his income in ensuring the smooth running of the country that helped enable his ability to gain that wealth, that ensures his wealth is protected, that pays for the legal system that helps prevent others from stealing the Oracle operating system and using it without paying Oracle for that use, then say a person working as a janitor at one of Oracles building, sure
 
Since I am WELL above average, I cannot participate in this poll. Sorry.

But if I WERE average, I would answer no.
 
I'm envious of the rich, I want a Lamborghini Aventador dammit!

There is a certain amount of envy, but not much beyond "imagine all the useless **** I could buy", and certainly not to the degree some posters on here imagine it.
 
I was just accused of this very thing by a far-right poster because of my position regarding the growing wealth disparity in the US.

The thing is I do not hate, or envy, the wealthy. I am very happy with my standard of living. Great wealth is not necessary to have a happy and comfortable life. But I see too many who are not so fortunate. As has been pointed out, this is the greatest disparity in wealth between the upper and lower classes since 1920 and before that in the 1880's in the days of the robber barons. In 2009, one in seven Americans lived in poverty. Unless we desire to become a third world nation, we need to rethink our regressive changes that have been made to our progressive tax system that have transferred too much much wealth to the top without job production.

After 3 decades of trickle down economics, we need a few decades now of trickle up economics where the working class can again be consumers and grow the economy.
 
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I'm envious of the rich, I want a Lamborghini Aventador dammit!

There is a certain amount of envy, but not much beyond "imagine all the useless **** I could buy", and certainly not to the degree some posters on here imagine it.

That's pretty much how I would sum it up. It's fun to think about what you could do with a billion dollars, but it's not really a serious thing.
 
Hate? No.

I do think there's a general inherent jealousy/envy within humans towards those who have more than you. The whole notion of "Keeping up with Joneses" comes from this. Its bred within our folklore ranging from your Robin Hood type things to your "wish" type stories where someone becomes rich/powerful/famous/etc. I think base human nature makes people, in general, at least somewhat jealous or envious of those who have a better quality of life (either honestly or just through appearance).

I do think this can go both ways as well; I think the rich can be jealous or envious at times of the lower classes depending on where in their lives they are and how involved they are perhaps with their business. For instance, a rich individual whose work consumes almost every moment of his life may be envious or jealous of one of his workers whose routinely spending time with his family, going to his kids baseball games, etc.

So I think that, to a small extent, it is within the base human nature of the average citizen to be jealous or envious of those doing better than them. The degree's of course vary. However, it is that small kernal of a feeling I think that is used as the starter fuel for those who seek to turn it more into a blaze to shift it to hatred. Victim mentality, the notion of an "underdog", the feeling of one upping someone, etc is a powerful thing in human nature as well. I believe studies have actually been done that people react in a very similar way within the brain when someone they dislike loses as opposed to them winning.

Which makes a bit of sense. Go to a Redskins fan on a week they're on bye and watch them see the Cowboys lose; you'll see much the same happiness as you'd have from them had their Skin's won. The desire to see someone else "lose" can be a powerful one in humans, and if you can combine that with that individual "winning" (Such as "we raise taxes on the wealthy and you get health care") then it becomes an even more powerful tool.
 
There seems to be an ongoing theme set by some that generally, those who care about the greater good of society and propose that a fair share of taxes be imposed on the extremely wealthy, are actually extremely envious/jealous and harbor hatred for the extremely wealthy. Supposedly, this is the reason these humanitarians propose a fair tax on the extremely wealthy. So let’s see what everyone thinks. :lol:

What's fair? Their tax obligation is already 30% or more of their income. How much should they be required to give up for "the good of the rest of us"?
 
I was just accused of this very thing by a far-right poster because of my position regarding the growing wealth disparity in the US.

The thing is I do not hate, or envy, the wealthy. I am very happy with my standard of living. Great wealth is not necessary to have a happy and comfortable life. But I see too many who are not so fortunate. As has been pointed out, this is the greatest disparity in wealth between the upper and lower classes since 1920 and before that in the 1880's in the days of the robber barons. In 2009, one in seven Americans lived in poverty. Unless we desire to become a third world nation, we need to rethink our regressive changes that have been made to our progressive tax system that have transferred too much much wealth to the top without job production.

After 3 decades of trickle down economics, we need a few decades now of trickle up economics where the working class can again be consumers and grow the economy.

Sense you said this some people on the right now think everything you just said is considered trying to "ignite class war"..
 
What's fair? Their tax obligation is already 30% or more of their income. How much should they be required to give up for "the good of the rest of us"?

See, here is where you are wrong and I think a LOT of Americans believe this.

If you make more than $373,651, your top tax rate is 35%.

Someone making $1 million doesn't pay $350,000 in taxes. They pay 10% on the first $8,000; 15% on their income up to $34,000; and so on.

Only the money over $373,651 is taxed at 35%.

Also, they stop paying payroll taxes on income above $106,800.

The top 400 families pay an effective tax rate of 16.6% - nearly the same as someone making $30,000. And they make, on average, $87 million a year.

Tax Rate for Richest 400 Taxpayers Plummeted in Recent Decades, Even as Their Pre-Tax Incomes Skyrocketed — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

It's not envy. It's about fairness. If we have a progressive tax system (and was ALWAYS have), then it should be progressive. Payroll taxes and loopholes result in the richest Americans paying a rate much lower than the middle class.

The people who pay the highest tax rates are those making around $100,000, an amount I firmly consider to be upper-middle class. From about $350,000 on, the effective tax rate declines and declines and declines.
 
There seems to be an ongoing theme set by some that generally, those who care about the greater good of society and propose that a fair share of taxes be imposed on the extremely wealthy, are actually extremely envious/jealous and harbor hatred for the extremely wealthy. Supposedly, this is the reason these humanitarians propose a fair tax on the extremely wealthy. So let’s see what everyone thinks. :lol:

I would say that the average citizen does not care what other people have or do not have. Now there are fringe groups and the lets tax the **** out of the rich groups and the rich do not need that much groups who are extremely jealous of the wealthy.
 
I don't know. I don't think so, honestly. I can't honestly say I know anyone that I would classify of being jealous of the rich. Some of them are certain pissed off about stuff like what FilmFestGuy mentioned, or that the stimulus helped them so much more than it helped anyone else. But that's different from jealousy - that's just a general sense of fairness.
 
I don't know. I don't think so, honestly. I can't honestly say I know anyone that I would classify of being jealous of the rich. Some of them are certain pissed off about stuff like what FilmFestGuy mentioned, or that the stimulus helped them so much more than it helped anyone else. But that's different from jealousy - that's just a general sense of fairness.

The stimulus helped big business because that's where the money was directed. That lies solely on the government, not the recipients.
 
The stimulus helped big business because that's where the money was directed. That lies solely on the government, not the recipients.

Except that it's proof that they own the government and we as citizens do not.
 
Except that it's proof that they own the government and we as citizens do not.

Hardly. It just shows the funds were mis-directed.

In the 2000s we received little stimulus checks. I think mine was $600. It turned out that didn't do a lot of stimulating. Maybe this time around the politicians were like, "hmm...it didn't help to give money directly to the people...let's try giving it to the businesses for job creation/new projects, etc".
 
Payroll taxes and loopholes result in the richest Americans paying a rate much lower than the middle class.

The government disagrees with you.

effective-tax-rate-top-400-families1.jpg


Closing loopholes and having them pay a bit more? All for it.

But let's not get carried away.
 
The government disagrees with you.

effective-tax-rate-top-400-families1.jpg


Closing loopholes and having them pay a bit more? All for it.

But let's not get carried away.

Be aware of what the term "median" means. Its a statistical term and does not necessarily represent the "middle class". Middle class and median are two different things. I am not saying that your assertion is incorrect, just suggesting you post something with more statistical calculations, e.g. something showing the average tax rate for the middle class, rather than an unrelated statistical measurement such as a median.

I do agree that loopholes need to be closed and they need to pay a bit more though. So we are in agreement :)
 
The rich should be categorized into several groups.
The useless, like trustfunders and Hollywood
The employers, moguls, sm and lg business owners, whatever you wish to call them
The money launderers ,several subgroups to be found here,
add whichever you wish. These are only a few broad categories.


Ok, so we have the leeches who complain about everything evil rich, while never ever contributing anything useful to society,
and those who do need a helping hand, because they can't fend for themselves...the disabled, the elderly, the ill.

Many rich talk a good talk, yes, the lip service Philanthropist. Of hand, Kerry (i.e. his yacht) and the Kennedys come to mind when I think of those who find loophole after loophole to avoid paying their fair share, while generously willing to give away other people's money. other evil rich simply contribute steadily to society, by creating jobs, by employing a large number of people here in country.

If we want more for those in need, lets start cleaning up from the ground up, all the way to the top.
Let the market do what the market does best, make it fair and equal for everyone, rich or poor.
The able bodied must work, the evil rich make jobs available in large enough numbers to make a difference, small business owners do their share.
If we decrease the need for entitlements by employing the able, taxes can be decreased, employers will hire more, everyone wins
Then, and only then do we have enough to go around to help those in need.
All else is needless fingerpointing
 
Be aware of what the term "median" means. Its a statistical term and does not necessarily represent the "middle class". Middle class and median are two different things. I am not saying that your assertion is incorrect, just suggesting you post something with more statistical calculations, e.g. something showing the average tax rate for the middle class, rather than an unrelated statistical measurement such as a median.

I do agree that loopholes need to be closed and they need to pay a bit more though. So we are in agreement :)

I'm aware of what median income is, and depending on whether you mean lower or upper middle class, it can range from 75 to 150 percent of the median -- right around what we need. It's a perfectly valid graph to all but hair-splitters, seeing as how there is no textbook definition of what the middle class even is.

Also, be aware that the "top 400 families" in a nation of this size and wealth is a ridiculous measure. The top 400 will always be disproportionate. A much more sensible measure is quintiles --- and as you can see, the rate for the top quintile is higher than 16. I think THIS graph is what tessaesque was referring to when she said that top earners pay 30%. And essentially, she's right.

19752005_3.gif
 
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I've never been someone who felt the need to acquire vast quantities of material wealth. I am content with what I have. My possessions do not own me and they aren't a burden to manage. I can't imagine what it must be like to spend most of your life managing assets. What a distraction.

In any case... I can't speak for the average person, but I can speak for me. I am not jealous or envious of the extremely wealthy. My problem is when wealth, power, and business intertwines with elected government in such a way that the voices of millions of people are cancelled out due to precision lobbying.

I also have a problem with the way the tax code is enforced. If played correctly, the rich pay a lesser percentage of their earnings to taxes than people in lower economic brackets, despite the so-called progressive tax. Not to mention, corporate empires write off hundreds of millions of dollars in assets and activities under "business". You can live your entire life in the tax haven shadow of your company if you know what you're doing; and since corporations are now "people" with constitutional rights, your company itself can exploit similar loopholes.

The problem has never been that people are extremely wealthy. The problem is the system that permits them to never pay up like the rest of us do.
 
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