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Do The Rich Need Saving?

Do The Rich Need Saving?

  • Total voters
    54
Paschendale said:
I never understood this mentality that taxes are a punishment.
Taxes are just paying the upkeep on the country. That's it.
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Come on. Everything else I pay upkeep on I have a CHOICE in the matter, a direct one, and it can be modified almost on a whim.
If I don't like the upkeep cost of my lawn, I can do it myself, or get an apartment or a garden home. If I don't like the upkeep of my fish tank, I can sell it.

if I try to democratically push government to reduce some of the thigns I do NOT want to keep paying upkeep on, it's difficult, time consuming, not up to me, etc., etc.

THEN you'll get some liberal on this forum...for example, telling me I have no reason to examine whether or not I want to pay government upkeep in the FIRST PLACE!! Even though every other form of upkeep, I both examine and control (to a large degree!)

God damn!!!!!!!!

And furthermore, one has to ask, how much did you pay in taxes? Can you comprehend that paying enormous sums of earned money to provide upkeep for thigns you really don't need, or want, or feel are justified, is not a good thing?

And that if you busted ass for a long time, and you saw your taxes go up, and up and, up, the more you work the more you payed, and by the end you're paying more in taxes per year than you made in salary the first 5 years, you might start to understand why it's punishment. Then to hear the justifications for it, and see that 47% pay effectively no federal taxes, then the class warfare....

I do a lot of things that I feel I have to, doesn't mean I sugar coat it and deny it's punishment. I hate going to the doctor, it's punishment to me, but I still value it. Paying taxes is a burden, and it's by in large involuntary. You can argue about the rest, but not about that.
 
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Mach said:
Come on. Everything else I pay upkeep on I have a CHOICE in the matter, a direct one, and it can be modified almost on a whim.
If I don't like the upkeep cost of my lawn, I can do it myself, or get an apartment or a garden home. If I don't like the upkeep of my fish tank, I can sell it.

if I try to democratically push government to reduce some of the thigns I do NOT want to keep paying upkeep on, it's difficult, time consuming, not up to me, etc., etc.

THEN you'll get some liberal on this forum...for example, telling me I have no reason to examine whether or not I want to pay government upkeep in the FIRST PLACE!! Even though every other form of upkeep, I both examine and control (to a large degree!)

God damn!!!!!!!!

And furthermore, one has to ask, how much did you pay in taxes? Can you comprehend that paying enormous sums of earned money to provide upkeep for thigns you really don't need, or want, or feel are justified, is not a good thing?

And that if you busted ass for a long time, and you saw your taxes go up, and up and, up, the more you work the more you payed, and by the end you're paying more in taxes per year than you made in salary the first 5 years, you might start to understand why it's punishment. Then to hear the justifications for it, and see that 47% pay effectively no federal taxes, then the class warfare....

I do a lot of things that I feel I have to, doesn't mean I sugar coat it and deny it's punishment. I hate going to the doctor, it's punishment to me, but I still value it. Paying taxes is a burden, and it's by in large involuntary. You can argue about the rest, but not about that.
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True: what benefits do I get from the government for paying a few hundred K in FIT a year that those who pay none don't get?
 
Binky said:
I don't worry or even ponder over such things. The rich are rich for three reasons. They either inherited family money, or they worked their tails off to get that way and made some very good investments along the way. Or they invested in a lottery ticket where they came out mega winners. When they get hit with exhorbitent taxes, rest assured, they find all sorts of loopholes to make the pain easier. They are well versed in manuevering the tax system to aid them in their endeavors to remain wealthy. They have the best tax attorneys at their beck and call. So what's to worry about?
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That's propoganda, most people pay their taxes, and there are not that many loopholes that are that large, to make your post realistic. Companies who pay little nealry always either posted a loss to offset it (they lost money!! something workers aren't normally familiar with because they have salaries that are always 0 or higher!), or they paid it in another country where the work was done.

For individuals, they don't get out of it with loopholes either. Those with retirement incomes or who have large (enough) amounts of wealth, might invest it in the economy and get a return on that investment if it's left for over a year, and that's taxed at a lower rate. But that doesn't take rich tax attorneys, everyone with a 401K or IRA, etc., does this, and nearly all Americans participate in this themselves at retirement either way!
 
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TurtleDude said:
True: what benefits do I get from the government for paying a few hundred K in FIT a year that those who pay none don't get?
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It's one thing to tell me government should provide X at cost Y for reason Z.
It's a whole different craziness to then tell me "Mach, your burden of paying all those taxes for things you may not agree with is not punishment to you....according to me".
 
TurtleDude said:
True: what benefits do I get from the government for paying a few hundred K in FIT a year that those who pay none don't get?
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You get the luxury of being allowed to be wealthy, to be allowed to hoard and spend more money (much more) than you need to in order to live. Whether or not you take advantage of this allowance from the government is your choice. Think of it this way ... the government could be (in all fairness) demanding much more from the wealthy, but they do not. Therefore, the wealthy get to keep the majority of the beyond needed income they accumulate (hoard). Therefore the government allows you much more benefits than those who pay no taxes receive.
 
Ikari said:
Not everyone can become rich though. I forget the stat, but there was a study done some time ago in which a survey showed that something like 8 or so % of the population thought they were in the top 1% of the income bracket and another 15 or so % thought they'd be in the top 1% within their life time. But only 1% of those earning income can be in the top 1% of the income bracket. Furthermore, with the withering of the middle class thanks to the mixing of State and Corporation, fewer and fewer people can get rich. A large, healthy middle class is necessary for economic mobility. It's not closed off yet, some people can and perhaps will become rich. But it's becoming less and less common. With the closure of economic mobility and the appearance of the new aristocracy, we're going to see less (not more) economic mobility. It's not a zero sum game, but not everyone can win either.
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The middle class can be rich - don't confuse rich with wealthy.
 
MusicAdventurer said:
You get the luxury of being allowed to be wealthy, to be allowed to hoard and spend more money (much more) than you need to in order to live. Whether or not you take advantage of this allowance from the government is your choice. Think of it this way ... the government could be (in all fairness) demanding much more from the wealthy, but they do not. Therefore, the wealthy get to keep the majority of the beyond needed income they accumulate (hoard). Therefore the government allows you much more benefits than those who pay no taxes receive.
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that is patently ridiculous. that is like saying the honors student has the luxury of making A grades or the track champion who runs 130 miles a week has the luxury of beating the guys who only train 30 miles a week

if the government got too parasitic politicians would be in deep crap

your nonsense is like saying crooks allow me to keep more money when they don't steal from me

jealousy and envy is the basis for this sort of thinking
 
mach said:
that's propoganda, most people pay their taxes, and there are not that many loopholes that are that large, to make your post realistic. Companies who pay little nealry always either posted a loss to offset it (they lost money!! Something workers aren't normally familiar with because they have salaries that are always 0 or higher!), or they paid it in another country where the work was done.

For individuals, they don't get out of it with loopholes either. Those with retirement incomes or who have large (enough) amounts of wealth, might invest it in the economy and get a return on that investment if it's left for over a year, and that's taxed at a lower rate. But that doesn't take rich tax attorneys, everyone with a 401k or ira, etc., does this, nearly alandl americans participate in this themselves at retirement either way!
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lolololol! If you say so. Man, what a dream world you live in....:roll:
 
Binky said:
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lolololol! If you say so. Man, what a dream world you live in....:roll:
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he's correct if he talks about people who actually have had a life of fairly regular employment
 
Originally Posted by Oberon
Yes. I agree. They just stole a lot of stuff from AT&T's government funded research contract for computing, and went on from there. They're just pirates who mostly buy or steal developments from other people. Gates didn't even have an OS when he sold one to IBM.

So, how does Gates being worth $40 billion from a monopoly help the economy, exactly?
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tessaesque said:
His company, which is why he is rich, benefits the economy. I'm pretty sure that's obvious (and was also mentioned in my post).
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That wasn't much of a response...
 
The rich are saved! Everybody, write and thank Boner.
 
TurtleDude said:
that is like saying the honors student has the luxury of making A grades or the track champion who runs 130 miles a week has the luxury of beating the guys who only train 30 miles a week
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Your analogy would be true if the person that trained harder also got a head-start on all of his races.

TurtleDude said:
if the government got too parasitic politicians would be in deep crap
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if so, that would be evidence of corruption

TurtleDude said:
is like saying crooks allow me to keep more money when they don't steal from me
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Except that that would be a completely inaccurate analogy

TurtleDude said:
jealousy and envy is the basis for this sort of thinking
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For some perhaps, but for me, keep dreaming :)
 
MusicAdventurer said:
Your analogy would be true if the person that trained harder also got a head-start on all of his races.



if so, that would be evidence of corruption



Except that that would be a completely inaccurate analogy



For some perhaps, but for me, keep dreaming :)
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Nah I am completely right
 
Cephus said:
Since in many poor school districts, there is a better than 50% drop out rate in high school, we certainly can't blame inability to afford college as a factor. They had the opportunity, they squandered it. Now I will say that college can be expensive. I paid my own way 100%. I worked 2 jobs and took a full-time course load. I didn't sleep much, I had very little social life, but I did it and so can anyone else who puts their mind to it. So... equal opportunity.
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So do you stick to this erroneous assumption because you want to see all the other poor folk work 2 jobs with a full-time course load and loose sleep like you had too? This seems like the only rational cause for your stubborn adherence to an erroneous myth. You see, the simple fact that you had to work 2 jobs while going to school full-time and your wealthy peers had the option to only focus on their curriculum (and avoid working 2 jobs), is the definition of unequal opportunity. Additionally, unless you received a scholarship, you likely did not attend an ivy league school, yet another example of unequal opportunity.

Cephus said:
No, I'm not among the few who can do it, anyone who wants to do it can do it.
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And you are basing this opinion on the fact that you were skilled enough to do it, therefore everyone else should be able to as well? This is the worst basis for a hypothesis that I have ever heard. You have no supporting data other than you and very very small group of other lucky and skilled individuals. You have not tested factors such as I.Q., psychological traits, physical stamina level and ability to appeal to professors. You have also not compared these factors to those that end up making more money than those few who can make it through college, to see if they had comparable factors. Your argument has no basis in reality as you have not provided any of these relative data sets. I am wondering what you went to college for, as if you did, most curriculum require some sort of statistical course ... if you did take such a class, then you obviously did not retain that information - evidence of the inability of people to work 2 jobs get little sleep and take a full course load while still actually learning (instead of just passing) in their classes.
 
I totally understand the rich circling the wagons and calling in their bought and paid for politicians to do their bidding.

What I can't understand is why these rednecks living in squalor trailor parks, or in there confederated flag draped trucks, keep voting for the people who continually represent the rich and don't give 2 ****s about them. Half of their paychecks probably have a treasury welfare stamp on them. If the GOP had their way these people would be sent off to work camps or starved. Doesn't add up.
 
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Captain America said:
I totally understand the rich circling the wagons and calling in their bought and paid for politicians to do their bidding.

What I can't understand is why these rednecks living in squalor trailor parks, or in there confederated flag draped trucks, keep voting for the people who continually represent the rich and don't give 2 ****s about them. Half of their paychecks probably have a treasury welfare stamp on them. If the GOP had their way these people would be sent off to work camps or starved. Doesn't add up.
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maybe they realize that the dems scheme of addicting people to handouts is bad for the poor in the long run

your claim about starving is rather silly
 
Captain America said:
I totally understand the rich circling the wagons and calling in their bought and paid for politicians to do their bidding.

What I can't understand is why these rednecks living in squalor trailor parks, or in there confederated flag draped trucks, keep voting for the people who continually represent the rich and don't give 2 ****s about them. Half of their paychecks probably have a treasury welfare stamp on them. If the GOP had their way these people would be sent off to work camps or starved. Doesn't add up.
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There are folks who study how those most abused by a system adopt the mindset. Reminds me of Uncle Rukus on Boondocks.

GameBanana: Uncle Ruckus (Sprays > GameBanana > Cartoons > Uncle Ruckus)
 
Mostly they're just cowards who need somebody lower on the totem pole they think they can screw over. In the old south, and the sweatshops of the north as well, you could pay these idiots 10 cents more an hour than you pay minorities for the same work and they will die to maintain that difference in perceived status, it makes them think they're players with a vested interest in the status quo, 'respectable' and stuff, and never mind that as far as the upper classes are concerned they're all sub-human 'niggers', regardless of skin color and/or ethnicity. The Klan is just a variation on the mobsters of the north and perform the same services; they're useful as strikebreakers, assassins, and thugs.
 
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Oberon said:
Mostly they're just cowards who need somebody lower on the totem pole they think they can screw over. In the old south, and the sweatshops of the north as well, you could pay these idiots 10 cents more an hour than you pay minorities for the same work and they will die to maintain that difference in perceived status, it makes them think they're players with a vested interest in the status quo, 'respectable' and stuff, and never mind that as far as the upper classes are concerned they're all sub-human 'niggers', regardless of skin color and/or ethnicity. The Klan is just a variation on the mobsters of the north and perform the same services; they're useful as strikebreakers, assassins, and thugs.
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wow, and people were ridiculing any of us who said there is a fair amount of hate towards those who have done well
 
TurtleDude said:
wow, and people were ridiculing any of us who said there is a fair amount of hate towards those who have done well
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While I think we have to be careful in who we are speaking of, and should avoid genralizations, it is true that those most abused sometimes accept the view of the oppresser.
 
Sociopaths and psychopaths recognize each other and tend to group together, no different than all the Ukranian and Polish lowlifes who were happy to be prison guards for the Nazis at their death camps and labor camps. Hitler's and the FreiKorps main source of recruits were thugs and street criminals and disaffected Bavarian farmers early on; sadists were particularly favored.

In the case of poor whites who support Republicans, it's obviously the same dynamic at work. Many of them actually think there's a chance for relegalizing drunk driving and wife beating; it fits their interpretation of 'Libertarian Values'.
 
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Oberon said:
Sociopaths and psychopaths recognize each other and tend to group together, not different than all the Ukranian and Pole lowlifes who were happy to be prison guards for the Nazis at their death camps and labor camps. Hitler's and the FreiKorps main source of recruits were thugs and street criminals and disaffected Bavarian farmers early on; sadists were particularly favored.
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where does all this hate come from?
 
Boo Radley said:
Flip side of the same coin of those who hate teachers and workers I suspect. Just saying. . . .
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I don't hate either. I cannot stand those who pander to them. did it ever bother you that the richest politicians are often dems-the ones who claim they are trying to HELP the poor?
 
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