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Billionaires: free to romp or responsible to fellow citizens?

Should a multi-billionaire settle for 2 jets instead of 3, 7 homes instead of 10 etc?

  • Yes (if it means serving the greater good)

    Votes: 10 34.5%
  • No (no one has the right to decide how much wealth is too much)

    Votes: 19 65.5%

  • Total voters
    29
Yes... so long as the employer and the employee agree upon it, no one has standing to argue that a given wage isn't fair.
The emplpyee did, after all, voluntarily accept the wage.

Sometimes when one has a family to feed, they do what they have to .. regardless of how fair the wage is. How is that so hard to understand?
 
You actually think that someone taking a job delineates a fair wage? Wow ... we are definitely not going to agree on that point ... wow!

Sorry, but if I am providing jobs, I get to set what I am willing to pay. If a person wants to work for me, they can. If they don't, they do not have to do so. What is "fair wage?" Is it minimum wage? Is it $10.00 an hour? Is it $25.00 an hour? Fair to you and fair to me may differ. If I am a 16 year-old, minimum wage may look like a fortune to me. If I am a corporate executive, it might not entice me to work there.
 
Sometimes when one has a family to feed, they do what they have to .. regardless of how fair the wage is. How is that so hard to understand?
The only thng I don't understand here is how you think this might in any way counters, negates or nullifies the soundness of the point I made.
 
Democracy. It's great.

Thank you for answering my question PzKfW IVe .. that wasn't so hard .. was it? I knew you had it in you ... :)

you're apparently OK with using democracy to force your morality on others

Again, you are assuming that I am OK with democracy .. so you should first ask "Do you support democracy?" ... to which I would answer ... to some degree, its not perfect and our current version of democracy needs some serious tweaking, but it can, if applied properly, serve the greater good

will you then remain logically consistent and not complain when others similarly force their morality onto you?

Staying consistent with democratic philosophy, if I believe that something is not right, I will express my beliefs in hopes that others will agree, join with me and effect change ... does this answer your question?
 
Sorry, but if I am providing jobs, I get to set what I am willing to pay. If a person wants to work for me, they can. If they don't, they do not have to do so. What is "fair wage?" Is it minimum wage? Is it $10.00 an hour? Is it $25.00 an hour? Fair to you and fair to me may differ. If I am a 16 year-old, minimum wage may look like a fortune to me. If I am a corporate executive, it might not entice me to work there.

Fair means a wage that will avoid undue hardship on the worker .. not whatever wage is agreed upon so that a family can suffer in debt, malnutrition, unrewarding work etc.
 
The only thng I don't understand here is how you think this might in any way counters, negates or nullifies the soundness of the point I made.

Your point is sound, yet lacks moral fiber (imo) ... what are your morals? do you have them? to you care about your fellow man/woman?
 
Staying consistent with democratic philosophy, if I believe that something is not right, I will express my beliefs in hopes that others will agree, join with me and effect change ... does this answer your question?
Yes - in the exact manner I expected.

While you are more than happy to use democracy to force your version of morality on others, you wil squeal like a stuck pig when someone tries to do the same to you.

So much for logical consistency.
:roll:
 
Fair means a wage that will avoid undue hardship on the worker .. not whatever wage is agreed upon so that a family can suffer in debt, malnutrition, unrewarding work etc.

So, when I was laid off from a company and I then went to work for another company for 1/3 less, I was not receiving a "fair" wage? Our family's lifestyle was built around the higher income. Did we suffer? Yes. Malnutrition? No. Unrewarding work? Yes and no. Did I piss and moan? No. Did I rebound? Yes. Must be genetics. I think I should get a lot of credit for what I have accomplished. I have more on this to provide, but I have to leave to meet my daughter at a car dealer. I'll be back.
 
Nope. I just think you do not understand conservatives. George W. Bush said he was a "compassionate" conservative. Many, if not most, conservatives found that offensive. Conservatives who are rational care about people and want them to do well and do not want to see people suffer. We differ from you on the solutions. If we (liberals and conservatives) would learn to express ourselves in complete thoughts on subjects without namecalling and vitriol, we might better understand each other. I would venture to say that most conservatives are empathetic and humanitarian, but do not view the solutions to problems the way liberals do.

Now we're getting somewhere. I do not consider myself a liberal or a conservative .. I, like you, want to see less suffering in the world.
 
Fair means a wage that will avoid undue hardship on the worker .. not whatever wage is agreed upon so that a family can suffer in debt, malnutrition, unrewarding work etc.
Thats what YOU call a fair wage. Your opinion carries no weight in the negotiation between the employer and employee - unless, of course, you happen to be one or the other.

If you are the employer and your version of a 'fair wage' is too low, you won't have any emplpoyees; if you are the emplpyee and your version of a 'air wage' is too high, you won't have a job. Welcome to supply and demand.
 
I know - and even though you agree that it is sound, you disagree with it.
Speaks volumes.

Actually it speaks volumes that you are not understanding what i am saying. Even an immoral person can have a sound argument ... sound argument does not = morality
 
Thats what YOU call a fair wage. Your opinion carries no weight in the negotiation between the employer and employee - unless, of course, you happen to be one or the other.

If you are the employer and your version of a 'fair wage' is too low, you won't have any emplpoyees; if you are the emplpyee and your version of a 'air wage' is too high, you won't have a job. Welcome to supply and demand.

I have understood that concept for a long time now. You are still not addressing the moral side of this equation.
 
Dear the founders of Facebook, Google and Geffen Records.

You're rich because you made other people poor.
We don't know how, but it's true.
Give us money, now.

Signed, lots of silly people
 
Yes - in the exact manner I expected.

While you are more than happy to use democracy to force your version of morality on others, you wil squeal like a stuck pig when someone tries to do the same to you.

So much for logical consistency.
:roll:

OK, I think you are beginning to attack me now ... have you no other way to feel like you are making a point than by attacking others .. seriously?

In addition, you said you think democracy is great ... do you not stand up for your beliefs?

If you do, that does not make you inconsistent, as the philosophy of democracy requires people to stand up for their beliefs ... just trying to help you understand the concept man :) .. hope that helped
 
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OK, I think you are beginning to attack me now
You're the one that spoke of logical consistency, not me.
You believe it is OK for you to force your morality on others, but you will not tolerate someone doing the same to you.
This is...well...logically inconsistent.

Why do you believe that you can do to others what they cannot do to you?
 
Fair means a wage that will avoid undue hardship on the worker .. not whatever wage is agreed upon so that a family can suffer in debt, malnutrition, unrewarding work etc.

In a market based economy, that's not the case. Obviously, it would be absurd to suggest it.

You've already seen the spectacular historical (and near modern day) catastrophies that planned economies result in. Why on earth would you propose we undo all the good markets do, and replace them with things that destroy freedoms and create enoromous levels of poverty and economic stagnation?

If you screw in bolts all day, while you may earnestly "feel" like you need to be able to raise an entire family and put them in college and buy a house on that labor (especially if you just read some socialist BS or heard some marxists poropoganda), but you'd just be irrational. Guess what, you might need to take two such jobs, or, imagine this, develop skills that are in MORE demand for higher pay, in order to increase your pay. You have to better serve society, for society to better value your service. OUTRAGEOUS!! (or not)

You really don't understand the fact that if society doesn't want to pay you to work voluntarily, that you have no right to force them to pay you?
- Hey, I need 10 fish per week for my seafood kiosk and I'll pay $3/lb Can you provide it MusicalAdventurer?
- "No sir, but I have these sticks I picked up, I like sticks, I like collecting them."
- "yeah, no need for sticks, but thanks"
- "No sir, I'm going to have to inform you that you are hereby forced to pay me $3/lb for sticks, because I feel you should, viva la revolution!"

I can't believe you really propose such nonsense.
 
You're the one that spoke of logical consistency, not me.
You believe it is OK for you to force your morality on others, but you will not tolerate someone doing the same to you.
This is...well...logically inconsistent.

Why do you believe that you can do to others what they cannot do to you?

PzKfW IVe ... what are you talking about .. read post #65 again ... if you have questions regarding that post .. I can help explain things for you
 
In a market based economy, that's not the case. Obviously, it would be absurd to suggest it

We've already gone over this in other threads ... market economies do not exist .. remember?
 
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You really don't understand the fact that if society doesn't want to pay you to work voluntarily, that you have no right to force them to pay you?
- Hey, I need 10 fish per week for my seafood kiosk and I'll pay $3/lb Can you provide it MusicalAdventurer?
- "No sir, but I have these sticks I picked up, I like sticks, I like collecting them."
- "yeah, no need for sticks, but thanks"
- "No sir, I'm going to have to inform you that you are hereby forced to pay me $3/lb for sticks, because I feel you should, viva la revolution!"

Why do you think a minimum wage exists (even if its too low)?
 
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PzKfW IVe ... what are you talking about ..
I believe I summed it up quite well when I noted that you were far more interested in playing pre-pubescent games rather than engagin in honest discussion.
Nothing you have posted here has shown otherwise.
 
Wow, I was the first to vote and I voted that no one has a right to decide how much is too muchBull and male bovine feces.. I'll decide...if one cannot "make it " on $100K, then tough-titty...I make it on far less. I have told my wife and family that there are many things in this life that I never want and two of them are to be famous and to be super-wealthy. Life should be about the journey and not the fame or wealth. Being self-sufficient should be the goal. Can you imagine what it is really like to be a famous celebrity with paparazzi and reporters bugging you endlessly? No thanks. As for wealth, I like to wake up everyday and ask myself, "How can I improve my lot?" I really think I would not like to say "Wow! I am rich. I can now do whatever I want. Where is the challenge in that?

Now, while I do not want to be super-wealthy, I neither envy them nor do I covet their wealth. Apparently, many people do. A rich person has never detracted from anything that I have ever wanted to do and they have never held me down. I have done alright and I have lived the American Dream. Again, no rich person impacted that in the least. Maybe people would be better off attempting to improve themselves and their own financial situation and not be so concerned about something that really has no impact on them. It might cure those pains in the heart.
The income tax rates should be reset to those of the Clinton Era....compalin too much and we will go back to the Eisenhower Era. The attitude and greed of the rich is sickening.......
Enough stupid ranting..
What we must do is cut waste and the reason behind it...the quality of our people...
We may be at a point of maxing out where it come to "cutting".
Education is the answer.
And tolerance.
 
I believe I summed it up quite well when I noted that you were far more interested in playing pre-pubescent games rather than engagin in honest discussion.
Nothing you have posted here has shown otherwise.

I believe it is the other way around my friend :)
 
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