The best way to fix our Economy?

We don't have a tax problem, we have a spending problem. Given our lack luster and extended lag in growth, low consumer confidence added to a housing market still in a coma and unemployment at 9.2% and closer to around 15-16% in actuality, as well as a 62 Trillion dollar obligated debt - we don't have a tax problem we have a spending problem, we have a debt problem stemmed from the spending problem.

Keep taxes low, close the loop holes and cut the spending across the board. Cut the corporate tax and give the private sector a reason to start hiring and revenue will increase.

MusicAdventurer said:

I agree ... Something's not right when the decision makers of our country can't take necessary actions to help our country.

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supposedly we live in a free society. supposedly in this free, representative society, the people are sovereign. supposedly, when the people are sovereign, the government is their servant.

except our "servant" seems to think that we have given him the right to tell us to purchase only curly lightbulbs; our "servant" appears to assume we have delegated to him the right to negate what contracts we wish to make, our "servant" claims that he has the right to punish us if our healthcare plans do not meet with his approval. Our Servant tells us what kinds of showerheads we may or may not use, and often whether or not our dinner meets with his approval.

Servant My A--; these people think they are Masters.

Ockham said:

We don't have a tax problem, we have a spending problem. Given our lack luster and extended lag in growth, low consumer confidence added to a housing market still in a coma and unemployment at 9.2% and closer to around 15-16% in actuality, as well as a 62 Trillion dollar obligated debt - we don't have a tax problem we have a spending problem, we have a debt problem stemmed from the spending problem.

Keep taxes low, close the loop holes and cut the spending across the board. Cut the corporate tax and give the private sector a reason to start hiring and revenue will increase.

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As one of the last few true believers dude, you need the tee shirt to go with it! (see it at the link below) :sun

STILL WAITING TO GET TRICKLED DOWN ON T-SHIRT from Zazzle.com

Catawba said:

As one of the last few true believers dude, you need the tee shirt to go with it! (see it at the link below) :sun

STILL WAITING TO GET TRICKLED DOWN ON T-SHIRT from Zazzle.com

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Hardly ... I know you'd wish that to be true, but you're not.

Rassmussen Polls said:

July 15, 2011

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 10% of Likely Voters claim to be both fiscal and social liberals. A majority (61%), however, are some other combination. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

These findings show virtually no change from early May.

Forty-four percent (44%) of voters classify themselves as conservative on fiscal issues such as taxes, government spending and business regulation. Nearly as many (40%) view themselves as moderate on these issues, while 12% feel they are fiscal liberals.

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29% Are Conservative on Fiscal and Social Issues, 10% Liberal on Both - Rasmussen Reports™


Keep wishing.... maybe one day it'll be true.

Seriously.................let's crash the Government. Let's see what happens. It can't get any worse than it is, and even IF it does, who cares? Everything is a horrible mess, anyway. Crash the Government, and 'roll with the flow', so to speak.

ElCid said:

Seriously.................let's crash the Government. Let's see what happens. It can't get any worse than it is, and even IF it does, who cares? Everything is a horrible mess, anyway. Crash the Government, and 'roll with the flow', so to speak.

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Seriously not a good idea. Starting over was difficult enough back in the mid 1700's... it would be near impossible now. I'm in for a political purge though...

Ockham said:

Hardly ... I know you'd wish that to be true, but you're not.




29% Are Conservative on Fiscal and Social Issues, 10% Liberal on Both - Rasmussen Reports™


Keep wishing.... maybe one day it'll be true.

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Maybe one day sooner than you think ~

19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

"In the June 9 ABC News poll 61% of Americans believe higher taxes will be necessary to reduce the deficit, and 57% of those polled said that deficit reduction should include both tax increases and spending cuts.

A Pew poll found that more people blame the nation’s involvement in wars than tax cuts or spending for the deficit. The poll also found wide support for increasing taxes, as 67% said the more high earners income should be subject to being taxed for Social Security, and 66% support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000, and 62% support closing corporate tax loopholes.

A Bloomberg poll taken in May found that only 33% of those surveyed thought that it would be possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes, 64% expressed the belief that it isn’t possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes.

An April CBS News/NY Times poll showed that 72% of people favored raising taxes on the wealthy in order to reduce the deficit. A March NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 81% of those surveyed would support a tax on millionaires that would be used for deficit reduction, and 68% supported eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those who make over $250,000."

There isnt an either/or or any other type of simple solution to fix the problem. YES we must MASSIVELY cut spending. Yes, we must have a balanced budget amendment. Yes, we must raise taxes to pay down the debt. Yes, we must bring back industrial jobs. Yes, we must deal with 20 million illegal workers and the impact that has on jobs, housing purchases, every other aspect of the economy. Yes, we must stop labelling crippled and dependent pets and enabling them to BE crippled and dependent pets. Yes, we must bring industrial and corporate leaders to the table to discuss and plan for a long term economic outlook and stop pretending polticians can 'create' or fix the job problem in the country.

Its not an us vs them, good guys vs bad guys problem or solution. Pretending it is and playing politics keeps us in this hole.

Catawba said:

Maybe one day sooner than you think ~

19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

"In the June 9 ABC News poll 61% of Americans believe higher taxes will be necessary to reduce the deficit, and 57% of those polled said that deficit reduction should include both tax increases and spending cuts.

A Pew poll found that more people blame the nation’s involvement in wars than tax cuts or spending for the deficit. The poll also found wide support for increasing taxes, as 67% said the more high earners income should be subject to being taxed for Social Security, and 66% support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000, and 62% support closing corporate tax loopholes.

A Bloomberg poll taken in May found that only 33% of those surveyed thought that it would be possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes, 64% expressed the belief that it isn’t possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes.

An April CBS News/NY Times poll showed that 72% of people favored raising taxes on the wealthy in order to reduce the deficit. A March NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 81% of those surveyed would support a tax on millionaires that would be used for deficit reduction, and 68% supported eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those who make over $250,000."

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The difference is, you believe in all the class warfare and that government exists to provide for you. I believe that people should be left alone to do as well as they can in life and that government shoudl stay out of people's way.

Ockham said:

The difference is, you believe in all the class warfare and that government exists to provide for you. I believe that people should be left alone to do as well as they can in life and that government shoudl stay out of people's way.

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Nope, I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. We need to cut our governments massive wasteful spending and we can no longer afford to give tax cuts to those that don't need them. I've had the same position for the last 3 decades during the creation of our debt.

Catawba said:

Nope, I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. We need to cut our governments massive wasteful spending and we can no longer afford to give tax cuts to those that don't need them. I've had the same position for the last 3 decades during the creation of our debt.

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No mention of those evil and dastardly rich people and how they should pay more for you? You're position is all about class warfare pal. Every mention, and I would estimate 75% or more of the posts you opine on are about just that - spreading wealth around. It's all you ever post about.


Did you know that?

Ockham said:

No mention of those evil and dastardly rich people and how they should pay more for you? You're position is all about class warfare pal. Every mention, and I would estimate 75% or more of the posts you opine on are about just that - spreading wealth around. It's all you ever post about.




Did you know that?

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Prove it then, if you can! Post a quote of mine where I say the "rich are evil and dastardly", or where I suggest "spreading the wealth around". If you can't, people will see you for what you are, dishonest. Happy hunting! :sun

Catawba said:

Unspinning the FairTax

Who Really Pays?

"With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase."

FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax

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the middle class uses a ton of government services and pays artificially low taxes. I believe that the government should be substantially cut back so no one's taxes are increased and those who pay too much would gain significant reductions. But if taxes HAVE to be increased it should be on the class that uses the most services, supplies most of the votes for big spending politicians, and pays artificially low income taxes.

Ockham said:

No mention of those evil and dastardly rich people and how they should pay more for you? You're position is all about class warfare pal. Every mention, and I would estimate 75% or more of the posts you opine on are about just that - spreading wealth around. It's all you ever post about.


Did you know that?

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absolute truth. a majority of the tax the rich posts come from spite and envy based on the attitudes of those who post such tings

Catawba said:

Maybe one day sooner than you think ~

19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

"In the June 9 ABC News poll 61% of Americans believe higher taxes will be necessary to reduce the deficit, and 57% of those polled said that deficit reduction should include both tax increases and spending cuts.

A Pew poll found that more people blame the nation’s involvement in wars than tax cuts or spending for the deficit. The poll also found wide support for increasing taxes, as 67% said the more high earners income should be subject to being taxed for Social Security, and 66% support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000, and 62% support closing corporate tax loopholes.

A Bloomberg poll taken in May found that only 33% of those surveyed thought that it would be possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes, 64% expressed the belief that it isn’t possible to lower the deficit without raising taxes.

An April CBS News/NY Times poll showed that 72% of people favored raising taxes on the wealthy in order to reduce the deficit. A March NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found that 81% of those surveyed would support a tax on millionaires that would be used for deficit reduction, and 68% supported eliminating the Bush tax cuts on those who make over $250,000."

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its is worthless to claim many people want others to pay more taxes so they can have more benefits without paying for them

when the majority of those making 250K to a few million clamor for tax hikes on the top 1 percent that might have some moral relevance.

asking those who pay little or no federal income taxes if they think the "wealthy" should pay more is specious and demonstrates how shortsighted people are.

TurtleDude said:

absolute truth. a majority of the tax the rich posts come from spite and envy based on the attitudes of those who post such tings

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TurtleDue ... I've heard you argue this case for some time now and have yet to see you post any evidence of it ... your case may be the least bit convincing if you at least provided some sources, research articles, etc. .. as of now your claims just look like rants ... just trying to help man

Ockham said:

The difference is, you believe in all the class warfare and that government exists to provide for you. I believe that people should be left alone to do as well as they can in life and that government shoudl stay out of people's way.

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Well, I believe that, so you can come argue with me instead. You don't quite have the whole position, though. You guys believe that talented and motivated people will naturally rise to the top, and that's a good thing. I agree, except that in reality, you need equal opportunity for that to happen. Otherwise you end up with Bush as president, while all the smart, talented kids who happen to attend an inner-city school get screwed. Capitalism is obviously not equipped to provide equal opportunity, since it's all about the centralization of wealth. If you really want to provide a fair playing field for competition, you need a solid socialist foundation for it.

TurtleDude said:

the middle class uses a ton of government services and pays artificially low taxes. I believe that the government should be substantially cut back so no one's taxes are increased and those who pay too much would gain significant reductions. But if taxes HAVE to be increased it should be on the class that uses the most services, supplies most of the votes for big spending politicians, and pays artificially low income taxes.

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Can you please give a definition of what you are calling the middle class and then show me a source that says they are using up the most services. It would really help your case. Finally, we went over this yesterday ... taxing those who don't have any money is not going to help.

atrasicarius said:

Well, I believe that, so you can come argue with me instead. You don't quite have the whole position, though. You guys believe that talented and motivated people will naturally rise to the top, and that's a good thing. I agree, except that in reality, you need equal opportunity for that to happen. Otherwise you end up with Bush as president, while all the smart, talented kids who happen to attend an inner-city school get screwed. Capitalism is obviously not equipped to provide equal opportunity, since it's all about the centralization of wealth. If you really want to provide a fair playing field for competition, you need a solid socialist foundation for it.

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My thoughts exactly. A fair playing ground is needed. A select handful of middle class might make it to 250k and up, but certainly not enough and forget the top 5%. This is because no one started evenly when America was founded. There were the upper class and the lower class then and much of that is likely the reason there is still this disparity. Anytime one individual is born into a world with nothing and another is born with everything ... there is a problem. Add in class-ism, racism all those great isms, and you have a recipe for disaster and little opportunities for one to rise up the ladder.

Catawba said:

Prove it then, if you can! Post a quote of mine where I say the "rich are evil and dastardly", or where I suggest "spreading the wealth around". If you can't, people will see you for what you are, dishonest. Happy hunting! :sun

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Yeah... seee, there's a thing called "Search" where you can put in something called "keywords" and all I had to do was search for the last 3 months, and I only had to pick two threads and my proof appeared.

You're obsessed with rich people - they OWE you and everyone else apparently. Here's the list, I've included the links too. Oh and by the way, there were 8 (that's E I G H T) more threads I didn't both with which was a treasure trove of your class warfare ideology, along with donc, rangel, petey, and a few others. Quite the class warfare clan you have going.

When I look at this stuff all at the same time, it project class hate. You hate rich people. You dislike the tax cuts because it favors rich people. Rich people deserve to pay more to support those who don't have as much - ie., spreading the wealth around. You even claim you're glad to be a socialist in one of the little clips. I mean, are you really now going to deny it and try pulling some nonsense that I'm a liar?

Just go back and look at every other political cartoon picture you've ever posted in that long thread - 50% or more all have to do with class warfare and ugly rich people or a picture of some rich dude holding bags of money and whatnot.

Here's the part where you claim it's only 49.9% and not 50% or make some other lame-o excuse. At least be a man and stand up for what you are and admit it. Don't back pedal now - it looks weak and paltry.

Catawba said:

And they are not happy with their Congressional representatives that want to cut benefits to the middle class and increase the tax cuts to the rich!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ding-tax-breaks-wealthy-6.html#post1059445921

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Catawba said:

The debt was not created by seniors, and it will not be solved on their backs. If you are serious about addressing the debt, it will have be solved by addressing the major causes of its creation - 30 years of tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, optional wars, imperialistic sized miliirary spending, and the most expensive health care system in the world.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ding-tax-breaks-wealthy-8.html#post1059453195

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Catawba said:

Since the Reagan tax cuts for the wealthy were even bigger and lasted 3 times as long, we can safely say that between the Reagan/Bush tax cuts, the have cost the country at least $6 trillion dollars in income.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ding-tax-breaks-wealthy-8.html#post1059453273

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Catawba said:

The current path has be changed, that's for sure. However, we need to address the root cause of the problems, the highest health care cost in the world and 30 years of using SS funds to pay for tax cuts to the rich.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ding-tax-breaks-wealthy-9.html#post1059457730

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Catawba said:

You are right that the baby boomers are responsible to make sure our largest problems, highest health care costs in the world and 30 years of tax breaks for the wealty, are addresed. http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ding-tax-breaks-wealthy-9.html#post1059459608

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Catawba said:

If the rich want their optional wars and military spending continued that almost equals the rest of the world combined, they will have to pay for them rather than continuing to rob SS and add to the national debt.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ing-tax-breaks-wealthy-12.html#post1059474469

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Catawba said:

It is the rich that declared war on the middle class. We have just decided to fight back. Read up on why our forefathers originally created a progressive tax.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ing-tax-breaks-wealthy-12.html#post1059477170

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Catawba said:

The problem has been that the party passed the tax cuts for the rich is the same one that increased the spending. This conservative policy of simultaneously cutting revenues and increasing spending has led to our debt problems.
...

That is how the tax cuts to the rich are an expense to the country.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ing-tax-breaks-wealthy-13.html#post1059478590

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Catawba said:

The relevant question is what did the rich do to deserve the tax cuts to begin with?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ing-tax-breaks-wealthy-13.html#post1059478865

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Catawba said:

In order address its root cause (insufficient revenues and too much spending) as soon as we have recovered from the Bush recession, we need to address the cause of our national debt - eliminate the Bush tax cuts and loopholes for the rich and cut way back on our spending.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ing-tax-breaks-wealthy-13.html#post1059479082

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Catawba said:

The "Fair-tax" shell game is exposed below:

"Suppose a bunch of rich people want to promote a national sales tax to replace the Federal income tax. How do they try to persuade the public to support such a plan? Simple: play with the arithmetic.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...why-not-consumption-tax-2.html#post1059422114

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Catawba"The rich have enjoyed 30 years of tax cuts the working class have not. [url]http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/97001-why-not-consumption-tax-4.html#post1059426222[/url][/quote] [quote="Catawba said:

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...why-not-consumption-tax-4.html#post1059426616

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Catawba said:

Super Rich Made $345 Million Each in 2007 as Their Tax Rates Plummeted

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...why-not-consumption-tax-4.html#post1059432871

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Catawba said:

You truely can't figure out why the working class slipping into poverty while the rich get richer does not breed discontent?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...why-not-consumption-tax-5.html#post1059433434

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Catawba said:

In the end, it is just another tax cut plan for the rich but they call it "Fair" in hopes the middle class won't notice its going to cost them more, so the rich can get even more tax cuts then they are getting now.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...why-not-consumption-tax-6.html#post1059433843

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Next time you need a DP reset, I'm your man. Consider yourself set straight. :coffeepap:

TurtleDude said:

the middle class uses a ton of government services and pays artificially low taxes. I believe that the government should be substantially cut back so no one's taxes are increased and those who pay too much would gain significant reductions. But if taxes HAVE to be increased it should be on the class that uses the most services, supplies most of the votes for big spending politicians, and pays artificially low income taxes.

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So you think the regressive Fair tax would be the way to address this delusion of yours?

TurtleDude said:

its is worthless to claim many people want others to pay more taxes so they can have more benefits without paying for them

when the majority of those making 250K to a few million clamor for tax hikes on the top 1 percent that might have some moral relevance.

asking those who pay little or no federal income taxes if they think the "wealthy" should pay more is specious and demonstrates how shortsighted people are.

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I have a higher regard for the majority of the working class in this country. :sun

MusicAdventurer said:

TurtleDue ... I've heard you argue this case for some time now and have yet to see you post any evidence of it ... your case may be the least bit convincing if you at least provided some sources, research articles, etc. .. as of now your claims just look like rants ... just trying to help man

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BS-this board is full of tax hikers who constantly claim the rich "stole" wealth or "cheated" people or don't pay "fair wages" etc

that oozes spite and envy. I don't need your help I have been doing fine dealing with the parasitic left here for close to 6 years. And your other posts suggest you are part of the problem I have noted

MusicAdventurer said:

TurtleDue ... I've heard you argue this case for some time now and have yet to see you post any evidence of it ... your case may be the least bit convincing if you at least provided some sources, research articles, etc. .. as of now your claims just look like rants ... just trying to help man

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The Turtledude doesn't do facts. He has stated that his professional opinion should be sufficient! :sun

Catawba said:

I have a higher regard for the majority of the working class in this country. :sun

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that is an interesting way of justifying confiscating wealth to buy the votes of the "working class"