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The best way to fix our Economy?

Do we get out of debt by raising taxes, cutting tax breaks, AND cutting some spending


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Wake

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I think it's somewhat clear what must be done.

We should cut tax breaks, raise taxes, and cut spending; we need to live within our means.

We can't spend our way out of the hole.
We can't tax our way out of the hole.
We can't cut tax breaks to get out of the hole.

An analogy would be that America is like a fat and unhealthy person.

You have to not only burn calories, but also eat right and utilize your metabolism.

Basically, we need to cut spending, tax breaks, and we need to tax. Politicians shouldn't be paid so well just to squabble and waste our time. Imo, CEOs shouldn't recieve such comically obscene bonuses; why would you even defend them? They don't know/care about you.

Also, I believe everyone should invest in solar panels; I don't believe the lie that solar panels aren't effective enough; just make a grand amount of them and stick them on houses and buildings, etc. I'd love to see solar panels cover virtually every house/practical building.

I think we need to be thrifty and efficient. I embody that.

Take a bag of organic Rainier cherries; I eat them and then take the seeds. Now, I have a small nursery of cherry trees. People, imo, should have large gardens. Asparagus is incredibly convenient and worth the effort. If you have even two 6ft-long rows, you're looking at a lot of FREE delicious food. Also, typical garden-grown asparagus is highly resistant to pests and disease. Grow pear trees. Walmart's garden items are rapidly dropping in price. Cherry, pear, and apple trees are only about $18. Invest. Invest in five or so of those and you'll reap the rewards. Also, plums, paw-paw(in zones 3-5), and others also save money.

I feel if we pull together to tighten our belts, we will see the day that America gets out of debt.
 
Yes we need to give a bloated ever growing ever reaching Massive Liberal Nanny State Government...........More of our Money........that should work.......
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While I don't know that everyone needs to go out and plant a victory garden, I do agree that all three measures are needed.

I think the Republicans know this, but they can't raise taxes because they've all signed Norquist's pledge. By doing so they've painted themselves into a corner. They can't do what's right for the country because they'll receive too much political heat from it.
 
Yes we need to give a bloated ever growing ever reaching Massive Liberal Nanny State Government...........More of our Money........that should work.......
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You do realize that the taxes they're talking about raising only apply to the top 2% right?

They're talking about putting taxes back to where they were before Bush.

Taxes are the lowest they've been in 50 years and we're in a recession. If lower taxes lead to economic stimulus as the Republicans say, we should be in a boom.

The so called, "job creators" create very few jobs with the tax savings and instead line their pockets.
 
You do realize that the taxes they're talking about raising only apply to the top 2% right?

They're talking about putting taxes back to where they were before Bush.

So the extra 1% in revenues is going to do what?.........besides make this recession Great and come nowhere close to balancing the budget?

Taxes are the lowest they've been in 50 years and we're in a recession. If lower taxes lead to economic stimulus as the Republicans say, we should be in a boom.

Do you believe tax increases yield economic booms?

The so called, "job creators" create very few jobs with the tax savings and instead line their pockets.

Damn greedy Job Creators..........
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I think it's somewhat clear what must be done.

We should cut tax breaks, raise taxes, and cut spending; we need to live within our means.

We can't spend our way out of the hole.
We can't tax our way out of the hole.
We can't cut tax breaks to get out of the hole.

An analogy would be that America is like a fat and unhealthy person.

You have to not only burn calories, but also eat right and utilize your metabolism.

Basically, we need to cut spending, tax breaks, and we need to tax. Politicians shouldn't be paid so well just to squabble and waste our time. Imo, CEOs shouldn't recieve such comically obscene bonuses; why would you even defend them? They don't know/care about you.

Also, I believe everyone should invest in solar panels; I don't believe the lie that solar panels aren't effective enough; just make a grand amount of them and stick them on houses and buildings, etc. I'd love to see solar panels cover virtually every house/practical building.

I think we need to be thrifty and efficient. I embody that.

Take a bag of organic Rainier cherries; I eat them and then take the seeds. Now, I have a small nursery of cherry trees. People, imo, should have large gardens. Asparagus is incredibly convenient and worth the effort. If you have even two 6ft-long rows, you're looking at a lot of FREE delicious food. Also, typical garden-grown asparagus is highly resistant to pests and disease. Grow pear trees. Walmart's garden items are rapidly dropping in price. Cherry, pear, and apple trees are only about $18. Invest. Invest in five or so of those and you'll reap the rewards. Also, plums, paw-paw(in zones 3-5), and others also save money.

I feel if we pull together to tighten our belts, we will see the day that America gets out of debt.

We should avoid raising rates. Any increase should be small. I am all for reducing loopholes and social engineering through taxation. We should certainly eliminate the tax breaks for ethanol. Norquist is wrong. It does not matter if it increases tax revenues if we actually cut spending. The cost of government is in what it spends and the cost of compliance. Increasing tax revenues by some small amount in order to get actual spending cuts is certainly worth it. Especially, when one considers that every loophole increases the cost of compliance by increasing the complexity of the tax law.

We need to stop pretending social security is anything but a welfare system. By that I mean it should be means tested. Those who need help should get it. Not those who are still prospering. The idea that it was ever some sort of savings account is nonsense. That money was spent to finance past government consumption. Young people entering the job market should not be held responsible for paying back retirees for the consumption of governments that were elected and controlled by the retirees.

We have to draw down our military presence. It is time for Europe and Japan to provide for their own defense.
 
The best way to fix the economy would be to first agree upon an economic philosophy to follow. It has been stated in these boards that the US Government has been following Keynsian Theory since 1945. So cutting taxes might be a good thing in a more traditional view of the economy, but it is detrimental to the Keynsian view.

I think the best thing we could do, would create a much different world for maybe a few years. I think the best thing to do would be to take all the money the Government makes a year and put it to the debt, and close the Government for the remaining year. It would result in the destruction of various social programs and it would bring about a state of anarchy. But after a said amount of time, the debt would be manageable, then you could move a percentage of the income to the debt, while the rest would be used to establish programs that are needed the most.

Then we should get rid of the private banking sector and put banking in the hands of the government. It would be best if we followed the philosophies of Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln with this.

Then from this, we should discuss as a country how we should perceive the economy (economic philosophies).

Once the country enters an age of prosperity, there would be enough resources and technology and knowledge to bring any resource to any person, hereby rendering the concept of money useless. We should then enact The Resource Based economy, or something similar.
 
Yes we need to give a bloated ever growing ever reaching Massive Liberal Nanny State Government...........More of our Money........that should work.......
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Here is the problem with what you are saying though, since Regan the budget has risen year over year. The only time since Regan the budget has stayed the same or has risen very little is during the Clinton years when tax rates were actually higher. What you are implying is that every single democrat that has ever been president was a liberal, and that couldn't be further from the truth. The reality of the situation is, is that Obama wants moderate Republican like cuts, even to things that Democrats defend day in and day out, and what do Republicans want to do? They want to use loopholes and tricks to let him raise the debt ceiling because they know it will destroy them in the end. So who is seriously to blame in the end of something doesn't get done? The Republican leadership, or the Democrat leadership?
 
I answered "yes," but I don't really think it'll work anymore. It would have worked 2 years ago, but we're in too deep now, IMO. At this point, I don't think there's really a way the economy can be fixed. We're headed the same way as the Soviet Union.
 
The best way to fix the economy would be to first agree upon an economic philosophy to follow. It has been stated in these boards that the US Government has been following Keynsian Theory since 1945. So cutting taxes might be a good thing in a more traditional view of the economy, but it is detrimental to the Keynsian view.

Keynesian economics don't work on their own, and good luck on telling everyone to follow one ideology. It's hard enough to make people agree we need to be reasonable...(as I'm sure you can see in this thread). We need to mix and match ideas of Keynesian economics with Austrian Theory, and that's where we're going to get a winning game plan.
 
I think it's somewhat clear what must be done.

We should cut tax breaks, raise taxes, and cut spending; we need to live within our means.

We can't spend our way out of the hole.
We can't tax our way out of the hole.
We can't cut tax breaks to get out of the hole.

An analogy would be that America is like a fat and unhealthy person.

You have to not only burn calories, but also eat right and utilize your metabolism.

Basically, we need to cut spending, tax breaks, and we need to tax. Politicians shouldn't be paid so well just to squabble and waste our time. Imo, CEOs shouldn't recieve such comically obscene bonuses; why would you even defend them? They don't know/care about you.

Also, I believe everyone should invest in solar panels; I don't believe the lie that solar panels aren't effective enough; just make a grand amount of them and stick them on houses and buildings, etc. I'd love to see solar panels cover virtually every house/practical building.

I think we need to be thrifty and efficient. I embody that.

Take a bag of organic Rainier cherries; I eat them and then take the seeds. Now, I have a small nursery of cherry trees. People, imo, should have large gardens. Asparagus is incredibly convenient and worth the effort. If you have even two 6ft-long rows, you're looking at a lot of FREE delicious food. Also, typical garden-grown asparagus is highly resistant to pests and disease. Grow pear trees. Walmart's garden items are rapidly dropping in price. Cherry, pear, and apple trees are only about $18. Invest. Invest in five or so of those and you'll reap the rewards. Also, plums, paw-paw(in zones 3-5), and others also save money.

I feel if we pull together to tighten our belts, we will see the day that America gets out of debt.

A most excellent and sensible post! If there are enough people like you, we may have a chance to turn this country around. :sun
 
You do realize that the taxes they're talking about raising only apply to the top 2% right?

They're talking about putting taxes back to where they were before Bush.

Taxes are the lowest they've been in 50 years and we're in a recession. If lower taxes lead to economic stimulus as the Republicans say, we should be in a boom.

The so called, "job creators" create very few jobs with the tax savings and instead line their pockets.


why are the dems afraid to repeal all the Obama tax breaks (or the Bush tax legislation)

because if they made EVERYONE pay more taxes they would lose votes

so when the dems talk about people making sacrifices they aren't talking about dem politicians
 
Wake, why fix the economy? From our situation it’s been doing wonderfully. Our net worth has gone up monotonically over the past several years. We sold our old home near the peak. The value of new our homes has gone up since purchase. Stocks have done very well for us. Our taxes are very low except our property tax on our water front property. I retired about 10 years ago at 55. I bet George Soros and the Koch Brothers aren’t having problems either. What’s the problem? Who is having a problem that counts?
 
why are the dems afraid to repeal all the Obama tax breaks (or the Bush tax legislation)

because if they made EVERYONE pay more taxes they would lose votes

so when the dems talk about people making sacrifices they aren't talking about dem politicians

If you could stop being a partisan hack for a second, how about you listen to some logic and reason.

The people who are going to be losing their Bush-era tax cuts are the people who don't need them in the first place. If I was a millionaire, I'd be more than willing to pay my part for the country's health. This budget fight is giong to accomplish something worthwhile, I think, and that would make me even more willing to pay taxes. If you recall, Obama didn't want to extend the tax cuts the Democrats are now trying to take away.

As it stands, we're going back to the norm for the upper tax brackets, and are finally getting rid of things we didn't need in the first place. The idea that letting the top tax bracket pay less taxes somehow helps the economy is pure bulls**t. It just doesn't work.

If you want to get some figures that say otherwise, be my guest, but good luck.
 
You do realize that the taxes they're talking about raising only apply to the top 2% right?

They're talking about putting taxes back to where they were before Bush.

Taxes are the lowest they've been in 50 years and we're in a recession. If lower taxes lead to economic stimulus as the Republicans say, we should be in a boom.

The so called, "job creators" create very few jobs with the tax savings and instead line their pockets.

No, they are back to talking about raising taxes on any single person making over 200K and couples making over 250K (you know..the small business owners) Raising taxes on anyone at this time would only do more harm.

Here's a plan I can go for.


‪Herman Cain on Stimulating the Economy‬‏ - YouTube
Herman Cain on the Economy


There are five things that I would do.

Number one and that is lower corporate tax rates from 35 to 25 percent. We're the only country in the world that has not. What are we waiting on? This is why we're losing so many businesses and so many jobs.

Lower personal income tax rates.

Lower the capital gains tax rate to zero. Free up investment in this country. This is how you create jobs.

Suspend taxes on repatriated profits. It's been estimated that nearly a trillion dollars are held by multinational corporations in other countries. So the liberals' attitude is if we can't get a piece of it, we're going to leave it over there. I call this low hanging fruit...low hanging fruit. Take it to zero. Not 5.25%, which is what it was back in 2003 when George Bush was able to get this done for a limited period of time. Nearly $350 billion came back into the economy. It is now estimated that nearly a trillion dollars will come back into the economy.

And then the next one is give workers a full 6.2% payroll tax holiday for a year and employers.

These items, folks, are called direct stimulus because we keep the money, we spend it, we save it, we grow our businesses. That's how you get the economy going.

And the fifth leg of that is make the rates permanent. We've go to remove this uncertainty that's hanging over this economy, which is bogging us down.

Now that would be what I would propose to get passed in the first six months. And then during that time while people are seeing how well this is working — and there are plenty of studies out there that says these measures will work — liberals simply don't want them to work. Then in the second two years — During the first two years I would be educating folk on the importance about the Fair Tax, so we would replace the entire tax code with the Fair Tax.

I got a question today that just absolutely shocked me from one of the reporters. He says, Mr. Cain, I have been hearing about the Fair Tax for ever and it never seems as if its going to go anywhere. He says so why would you want to take on something that's going to not happen, that's going to be an impossibility. I just smiled and said, sir, you don't not do what's right because it's hard to do. And if the Founding Fathers had had that attitude guess what? We wouldn't be here today. Just because it's difficult, it doesn't mean you don't do it. I know it's going to be difficult, and this is why I'm not going to introduce it the first two years. We've got to educate the public because it is, has been demagogued, lied about. And if the American people know the truth, they will support it, and they will demand it. This is how you get something like that passed.
 


No, they are back to talking about raising taxes on any single person making over 200K and couples making over 250K (you know..the small business owners) Raising taxes on anyone at this time would only do more harm.

Here's a plan I can go for.


‪Herman Cain on Stimulating the Economy‬‏ - YouTube
Herman Cain on the Economy


Fair tax would essentially amount to much less being taxed from a family actually getting their taxes taken out. If the poverty level is set at around $30k per family, and then you have a family making say $50k, taxing them 23% of what they make isn't that about the same they would get taxed anyways? All this fair tax nonsense is, is a way to tax the rich the same amount as everyone else. It would be even worse than the Bush tax breaks, and it would be impossible to ever pass.
 
If you could stop being a partisan hack for a second, how about you listen to some logic and reason.

The people who are going to be losing their Bush-era tax cuts are the people who don't need them in the first place. If I was a millionaire, I'd be more than willing to pay my part for the country's health. This budget fight is giong to accomplish something worthwhile, I think, and that would make me even more willing to pay taxes. If you recall, Obama didn't want to extend the tax cuts the Democrats are now trying to take away.

As it stands, we're going back to the norm for the upper tax brackets, and are finally getting rid of things we didn't need in the first place. The idea that letting the top tax bracket pay less taxes somehow helps the economy is pure bulls**t. It just doesn't work.

If you want to get some figures that say otherwise, be my guest, but good luck.

Pure psychobabble

the reason why -if taxes must be raised- taxes should be raised on those who are paying artificially low taxes is that these people haven't figured out that massive government spending has to be paid for. these voters keep buying into the pandering big spending politicians use to buy the votes. If these people who keep voting for more spending saw their taxes increase maybe they would be less likely to buy into the pandering
 
Unspinning the FairTax

Who Really Pays?

"With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course, if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more. As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department, “someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year. The chart below compares the share of the federal tax burden for different income groups under the current system and under the FairTax. Those in the highest and the lowest brackets will see their share decrease, while everyone else will see their share of taxes increase."


FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax
 


No, they are back to talking about raising taxes on any single person making over 200K and couples making over 250K (you know..the small business owners) Raising taxes on anyone at this time would only do more harm.

Here's a plan I can go for.


‪Herman Cain on Stimulating the Economy‬‏ - YouTube
Herman Cain on the Economy


The part he doesn't tell you is that in the mean time, we lose social security, medicare, welfare, education, etc etc. This is a one step plan to turn America into an oligarchy... or at least more of an oligarchy than it is now.
 
raising taxes is actually more likely to dig us deeper by lowering revenue via the mechanism of slowing growth. we would be better off through tax code simplification as per the Bowles-Simpson plan, or the House 2012 budget.

and "some spending" doesn't need to be cut. lots of spending needs to be cut, and entitlements need to be restructured.
 
I continue to be amazed at how the giant pink elephant in the room, 'Defense' spending, is almost entirely invisible, not just on this board but every other board as well, to both parties' spin machines.

The brie and chardonay Democrats and their fellow neo-liberal Republicans have done a very good job of steering the focus entirely onto programs that already had massive cuts imposed on them over the last 30 years, via bogus CPI index calculations, while the 'Defense' oligarchy keeps rolling right along, increasing every year.

And, how is taxing the working poor more supposed to do any good??? Ridiculous 'fixes' appear to have mass appeal to the growing body of sociopaths the U.S. is producing, obviously. But, if that's your plan, simply quit indexing the personal deduction to inflation, even the hilariously low 'inflation' rates the government keeps lying about, to the benefit of both 'parties', and you can grind a lot more people into poverty. This would suit both parties' utterly clueless policy makers and certainly their loyal puppets.
 
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raising taxes is actually more likely to dig us deeper by lowering revenue via the mechanism of slowing growth. we would be better off through tax code simplification as per the Bowles-Simpson plan, or the House 2012 budget.

and "some spending" doesn't need to be cut. lots of spending needs to be cut, and entitlements need to be restructured.

That, I forgot to mention. I would cut that as well. Methinks we can't use just one or the other, but that we must tax and cut. Earmarks and pork spending needs to be cut. If the Republicans mean to cut, then they had better not spend foolishly; if they embody fiscal conservatism then they must embody fiscal conservatism.

The unions need their backs "broken". Far too much money is being spent. On a John Stossel episode I saw that certain bus drivers make $100,000. Seriously.
 
I continue to be amazed at how the giant pink elephant in the room, 'Defense' spending, is almost entirely invisible, not just on this board but every other board as well, to both parties' spin machines.

The brie and chardonay Democrats and their fellow neo-liberal Republicans have done a very good job of steering the focus entirely onto programs that already had massive cuts imposed on them over the last 30 years, via bogus CPI index calculations, while the 'Defense' oligarchy keeps rolling right along, increasing every year.

And, how is taxing the working poor more supposed to do any good??? Ridiculous 'fixes' appear to have mass appeal to the growing body of sociopaths the U.S. is producing, obviously. But, if that's your plan, simply quit indexing the personal deduction to inflation, even the hilariously low 'inflation' rates the government keeps lying about, to the benefit of both 'parties', and you can grind a lot more people into poverty. This would suit both parties' utterly clueless policy makers and certainly their loyal puppets.

I couldn't agree more! Our military is the most wasteful sink of taxpayers money of any US program. We spend almost as much on our military as the rest of the world combined and neither party is talking about the massive military spending cuts that are needed.

IMO, it is going to take the people forcing the issue.
 
I do agree that all three measures are needed.

I think the Republicans know this, but they can't raise taxes because they've all signed Norquist's pledge. By doing so they've painted themselves into a corner. They can't do what's right for the country because they'll receive too much political heat from it.

I agree ... Something's not right when the decision makers of our country can't take necessary actions to help our country.
 
Yes we need to give a bloated ever growing ever reaching Massive Liberal Nanny State Government...........More of our Money........that should work.......
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Lol ... what's with this "Nanny" stuff? What's it supposed to mean? Did you have a nanny that you really didn't like as a child or something? Lol! :)
 
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