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Do You Want Higher Taxes?

TurtleDude said:
Oh I agree with you there. There should be a price to pay for incompetence and the salaries some boards hand out due to ego is a violation of the fiduciary duty the board has to the owners but I don't believe the government should have the power to set salaries
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Yes, it's wrong but the govt shouldn't do anything about it!!! :roll:
 
TurtleDude said:
Oh I agree with you there. There should be a price to pay for incompetence and the salaries some boards hand out due to ego is a violation of the fiduciary duty the board has to the owners but I don't believe the government should have the power to set salaries
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No, the government should not set salaries. But proper control must be put into the system and the actual business owners (who are the stock holders) should be given their proper power.
 
Ikari said:
That...that's not free market capitalism in China. It's all State controlled essentially. The people aren't allowed to save much. Hell, factories had to release "please don't kill yourself" pamphlets recently to workers because of the increase in suicide. Yeah....I would not really ever exalt China as a shining example of anything just or good.
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If you understand the history of the People's Republic of China, you understand what a shift towards the free market has done for them as a nation. Mao's Great Leap Forward was responsible for the starvation of millions. It wasn't until Deng Xiaoping geared China toward a market economy that the conditions of their people started drastically improving. China is not a free market, but the shift towards a market economy has made drastic improvements.
 
Ikari said:
No, the government should not set salaries. But proper control must be put into the system and the actual business owners (who are the stock holders) should be given their proper power.
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They have very low stock. Why should their say be able to sway anything?
 
Helvidius said:
If you understand the history of the People's Republic of China, you understand what a shift towards the free market has done for them as a nation. Mao's Great Leap Forward was responsible for the starvation of millions. It wasn't until Deng Xiaoping geared China toward a market economy that the conditions of their people started drastically improving. China is not a free market, but the shift towards a market economy has made drastic improvements.
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Translation: You still can't find an example of the free market lifting people out of poverty, but you did find two where a socialist economy is beginning to do so.
 
sangha said:
Yes, two of the largest socialist economies are growing faster than the US's.
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HA! Check out the Great Leap Forward if you want to see socialism. And explain to me how India is a socialist nation...
 
Helvidius said:
If you understand the history of the People's Republic of China, you understand what a shift towards the free market has done for them as a nation. Mao's Great Leap Forward was responsible for the starvation of millions. It wasn't until Deng Xiaoping geared China toward a market economy that the conditions of their people started drastically improving. China is not a free market, but the shift towards a market economy has made drastic improvements.
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The only problem I see with your argument is that you are admitting that China is not a free market, yet you argue that a true free market is best (am I correct? is that what you are arguing?). The problem with saying that a "shift" toward a free market helped is that no one else is arguing that a market that has qualities of a free market is bad. I think most people are arguing that a pure Free Market would be bad. The U.S. uses a governed free market .. everyone is O.K. with that ... I think we just don't want to see the necessary governing of the market disappearing. Do you see what I am saying?
 
Henrin said:
They have very low stock. Why should their say be able to sway anything?
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They're part of the owners, it's part theirs, it's part their property. You saying others should be able to tell you want you have to do with your property with no say what so ever by you about your own property?
 
Helvidius said:
If you understand the history of the People's Republic of China, you understand what a shift towards the free market has done for them as a nation. Mao's Great Leap Forward was responsible for the starvation of millions. It wasn't until Deng Xiaoping geared China toward a market economy that the conditions of their people started drastically improving. China is not a free market, but the shift towards a market economy has made drastic improvements.
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I think there are drastic shifts that have to occur first before a true march towards a real free market can be made in China.
 
sangha said:
The GLF wasn't socialism.

And India has been a socialist nation for a while now.
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India has been moving farther capitalist since 1991. The Great Leap Forward was without a doubt socialism.
 
MusicAdventurer said:
The only problem I see with your argument is that you are admitting that China is not a free market, yet you argue that a true free market is best (am I correct? is that what you are arguing?). The problem with saying that a "shift" toward a free market helped is that no one else is arguing that a market that has qualities of a free market is bad. I think most people are arguing that a pure Free Market would be bad. The U.S. uses a governed free market .. everyone is O.K. with that ... I think we just don't want to see the necessary governing of the market disappearing. Do you see what I am saying?
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Fair enough. I'm not into anarcho-capitalism, but I understand what you are saying. I think free market qualities are the best, but I understand what you mean.
 
Ikari said:
They're part of the owners, it's part theirs, it's part their property. You saying others should be able to tell you want you have to do with your property with no say what so ever by you about your own property?
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They have a say. How do you think say should be calculated?
 
Helvidius said:
India has been moving farther capitalist since 1991. The Great Leap Forward was without a doubt socialism.
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And India is a socialist nation which is growing faster than we are

The GLF was communism. It would help if you understood what the words you use really mean
 
Helvidius said:
Fair enough. I'm not into anarcho-capitalism, but I understand what you are saying. I think free market qualities are the best, but I understand what you mean.
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But you still can't post an example of a free market economy lifting its' people out of poverty
 
sangha said:
Your changing your story. Just a short while ago, you argued they should have no say
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They have very low stock. Why should their say be able to sway anything?
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Not exactly what I said.

If someone holds almost nothing in the company why should they have a great sway in the company? Why shouldn't they be the cricket in the room? If they hold a sufficient holdings in the company they have sufficient say. I'm not seeing the problem.
 
sangha said:
Yes, it's wrong but the govt shouldn't do anything about it!!! :roll:
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That is how it should be in some cases. As long as this corporation is doing nothing illegal, it's really non of the governments business how big it's ego gets.
 
sangha said:
Yes, two of the largest socialist economies are growing faster than the US's.
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This is very much like claiming that the U.S. is not a capitalist country because it isn't purely capitalist. Same with China and India. Both certainly have capitalist aspects to them.

As I said earlier, there are no true isms.
 
1Perry said:
That is how it should be in some cases. As long as this corporation is doing nothing illegal, it's really non of the governments business how big it's ego gets.
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Except that the government can pass rules and regulations to keep them under control .. so actually it is sometimes the government's business
 
MusicAdventurer said:
Except that the government can pass rules and regulations to keep them under control .. so actually it is sometimes the government's business
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I've argued for regulations. I noted where it is frustrating that the govenment would pass Sarbanes/Oxley and then completely ignore it. There is no reason that the government should set what a CEO should get paid though. (as long as they are not bailing them out) which is wrong in the first place and not something they seem to want to do anyway.
 
evanescence said:
He'd probably be hard pressed to find an example of an actual free market economy-
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That's because as long as we have groups of people, one won't exist, people will always find ways to govern themselves .. a free market economy is anarchy .. this doesn't even exist in the animal world .. even Chimpanzees keep each other in line
 
MusicAdventurer said:
That's because as long as we have groups of people, one won't exist, people will always find ways to govern themselves .. a free market economy is anarchy .. this doesn't even exist in the animal world .. even Chimpanzees keep each other in line
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Either there's regulation, as there should be, or those who benefit use the system to take advantage of others. Neither example equals a free market.
 
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