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Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?

Should Republicans agree to Tax Increases.....and commit political suicide?


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I don't disagree that tax policy should be revised, along with a whole lot of other things. And I don't disagree that taxes should be as low as the situation allows, I was just pointing out your over simplification of an extremely compliticated issue.
Also I'm in the military, your taxes are my profit. I eat your taxes for breakfast. NOM NOM NOM

We can go as in depth as you like......we can examine every detail.......to the microscopic level..........

.........but above all our in depth findings......there will still hang a glaring red neon sign reading.........

Welcome to the Divided Socialist States of ObamAmerica.......

........we want 40% of your profits...........

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Theyve already committed suicide...it just hasnt dawned on them yet

That's exactly what I was going to say. The suicide is past-tense. They can still redeem themselves.
 
And how many American companies actually pay that rate when you look at the loopholes, tax breaks, and credits? Not to mention you got your information from a libertarian think tank.

few. but those that don't pay that rate have to pay all the compliancy costs and inefficiencies that come along with minimizing their tax exposure.


far better to keep effective rates the same and strip out all the compliancy costs and inefficiencies. we are talking Hundreds Of Billions of dollars pouring into the productive sectors of the economy every year.
 
That's exactly what I was going to say. The suicide is past-tense. They can still redeem themselves.

Yes 100% of Democrat voters agree.....Republicans have commited suicide.......

....tell us again in 2012....when Republicans retake the Senate and the Presidency....assuming they hold strong, represent the will of the people, and cut spending without raising taxes.
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Look at the people that voted for them though, is it going to hurt them if tax loopholes are closed up?

depends on who you mean by "them". My uncle is a small-business owner whose company is operating pretty much on the edge after a few years of this Recession. He's burned through the savings trying to keep as many people as possible still with him. If you raise his effective tax rate, he has to walk in the next day and fire some of his people - he does contracting, so his workers are generally blue-collar types with no college degree; the kind of person who has the hardest time taking care of their family in a high unemployment environment.

He will be okay. He'll be less successful, but he'll be alright. It's his workers you'll be F---ing over.
 
Иосиф Сталин;1059645987 said:
No one is committing any kind of "political suicide" by agreeing to increase taxes. Don't be such a demagogue!

Ask any conservative voter if they will vote for a candidate that raises taxes.........

There are other core values that Conservatives have forgotten if we follow your logic. For example, what about reducing the size of the Government? It's always been one of the highest priorities in the Republican agenda. Yet none of the last three Republican Presidents were able to achieve any of that. In fact, it seems to me that they're only interested in reducing the Government programs and initiatives they don't like but keeping the ones which serve their interests best. That's kind of hypocritical. Yet nobody points that out. Bush Junior created a massive debt. If he hadn't believed in big Government, he would have never got us in such a massive debt. He used the Government to finance doubtful wars and then to initiate some more than questionable social programs like meaningless school funding that was supposed to teach students the benefits of abstinence. Wow! Imagine that! Quite an achievement! And then he still has the nerve to try and privatize social security. Talk about money well-spent! Yeah, I'm sure Republicans didn't splurge during their terms.

The point your missing.......When Republicans go on Democrat like spending binges........

.........WE DONT CHEER IT ON.........and neither do the liberals usually.

But when Democrats show We The People that they are the drunken liberal sailor whores that they are......

.........YOU CHEER IT ON.........

So, as I was saying, you're worried about Republicans losing their identity just because of a tax increase this nation desperately needs, but other faults that have been and are still being committed against your party's core beliefs are quite OK. This sure is a sign some of you are becoming delusional.

If it was OK......we wouldnt have The Tea Party today.

Where is the Democrat version?

Truth is you don't want that tax increase because you are not true patriots and never were.

Joe Biden is that you?

When everything is running smoothly for you, then it's "la vie en rose", I love this country and love everything in it. But as soon as your country needs you to make a small sacrifice, you blame every possible other to avoid paying a tiny fraction of your disproportionately huge income and this Republic suddenly turns, according to you, into a big totalitarian machine from one day to the next. Once we pass August 2, don't ever again mention the word "PATRIOTISM" to me or to the American people. You've never done anything for this nation that has done so much for you, that made you wealthy. You don't deserve to represent America.

We have sacrificed plenty on the altar of Statism........if you feel you havent sacrificed enough......the IRS takes donations.
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Do you know of an Independent that favors Tax Increases in this economy?

Certainly, the great majority of the country supports tax increases to help reduce the deficit:

19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

"Despite what the GOP keeps telling us, Bruce Bartlett has compiled a list of 19 different polls taken since January that demonstrate that Americans support increasing taxes in order to reduce the deficit and inequality. Americans may not love tax increases, but they understand their necessity for deficit reduction."
 
Regardless, between supporting people from falling into homelessness and providing jobs, there has to be a limit to the number of cuts we make before the adverse affects of shrinking the "nanny state" begin to outweigh the gains; and if we are to be serious about tackling the deficit, we need to compensate for that limit with tax increases on higher income brackets.

That sort of eclectic policy is the only way to get serious about our country's problems.

Agreed, the Democrats have offered $2 in spending cuts for every $1 of tax increases. What have the Republicans offered in way of concessions to lower our deficit spending?
 
Agreed, the Democrats have offered $2 in spending cuts for every $1 of tax increases. What have the Republicans offered in way of concessions to lower our deficit spending?

Where?

Do you have the list?.....or is it with their budget? (Missing for 800 days +)

....they were opposed to cutting Cowboy Poetry Contests a month ago......so lets see what they actually plan on cutting now.......
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If it becomes clear the democrats won't do a deal without tax increases then they would have to decide which would be more disastrous, allowing us to default and taking the blame or raising taxes and breaking their pledge and taking the blame for that. But it looks like it won't matter as they're going for a smaller deal anyway sans tax increases. As for me, I think we should cut off all deficit spending ASAP.
The Kenyan Tyrant
By the way, you kind of sound like a retard when you call the president that.
 
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If it becomes clear the democrats won't do a deal without tax increases, then they would have to decide which would be more disastrous, allowing us to default and taking the blame or raising taxes and breaking their pledge and taking the blame for that. But it looks like it won't matter as they're going for a smaller deal anyway sans tax increases. As for me, I think we should cut off all deficit spending ASAP.

By the way, you kind of sound like a retard when you call the president that.

Well your opinion means so much to me.......almost as important as The Kenyan Tyrant's......
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Well your opinion means so much to me.......almost as important as The Kenyan Tyrant's......
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Oh, my bad, I guess you just posted this thread here for no reason and you didn't want anyone to answer your question. I should have known.
 
Where?

Do you have the list?.....or is it with their budget? (Missing for 800 days +)

....they were opposed to cutting Cowboy Poetry Contests a month ago......so lets see what they actually plan on cutting now.......
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"President Obama laid out his plan for long term deficit reduction Wednesday. He largely embraced the goals of his deficit commission — calling for $4 trillion in cuts and tax hikes over 12 years.

President Obama said doing nothing about the deficit was not an option, but he said we have to fix the problem with a scalpel, not a machete. For every $1 in tax hikes, the president's plan would cut $2 in spending. The cuts would come from domestic programs, the military, Medicare and Medicaid. He would allow the Bush-era tax cuts for the rich to expire, and revamp the tax code to lower rates and eliminate loopholes."


Obama Proposes Tax Hikes, Cuts To Trim Deficit : NPR

This is the biggest concession by either party since the Clinton Administration, which was coincidently the last time we had a balanced budget.
 
"President Obama laid out his plan for long term deficit reduction Wednesday. He largely embraced the goals of his deficit commission — calling for $4 trillion in cuts and tax hikes over 12 years.

President Obama said doing nothing about the deficit was not an option, but he said we have to fix the problem with a scalpel, not a machete. For every $1 in tax hikes, the president's plan would cut $2 in spending. The cuts would come from domestic programs, the military, Medicare and Medicaid. He would allow the Bush-era tax cuts for the rich to expire, and revamp the tax code to lower rates and eliminate loopholes."


Obama Proposes Tax Hikes, Cuts To Trim Deficit : NPR

Thats an outline not a list.......no numbers whatsoever.........

This is the biggest concession by either party since the Clinton Administration, which was coincidently the last time we had a balanced budget.

....when the Republicans dragged BJ kicking and screaming.........
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the Clinton Administration, which was coincidently the last time we had a balanced budget.
Not if you count intragovernmental debt. like them borrowing from social security.
 
Thats an outline not a list.......no numbers whatsoever.......
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Didn't know you had not read the news or were unable to use the Google. Here you go:

President Obama

http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/TheMomentofTruth12_1_2010.pdf



....when the Republicans dragged BJ kicking and screaming.........

The Republicans dragged Clinton into increasing revenues by raising taxes. Afraid I will have to call Bull**** on that big honking untruth! :sun
 
Not if you count intragovernmental debt. like them borrowing from social security.

True, but we haven't even been as close as that since the Clinton Administration. That's why I liked Gore's idea of a lock box for SS funds, but the country voted for the guy they would like to have a beer with instead.

Are you opposed to cutting $2 spending for every $1 dollar of tax increases?
 
Are you opposed to cutting $2 spending for every $1 dollar of tax increases?
Undecided, lol. I support ending all deficit spending immediately, there's no reason we should be living beyond our means, but still need to learn more about how large the federal government should be and thus whether or not I would support any tax increases. I'm only 17.
 
To me it is simple. Much of our budget is created by inefficiencies in a number of systems and having a massive industrial military complex. Currently, even in bad economic climate there is roughly $2.3 trillion in tax receipts a year but we still have $1.4 trillion deficit. This can be easily counteracted by scaling back military, and making everything else very efficient and bring the budget down to $2 trillion where it was at the beginning of the war in Afghanistan, meaning we could still have troops abroad in places where needed. This in turn gives us a 600 billion surplus a year. If you were to let Bush tax cuts phase out for the rich, a 900 billion surplus. If you were to let all Bush tax cuts phase out, 1.2 trillion surplus which is totally unheard of. In turn, the debt could be paid down in as little as 8 years, making us the only industrialized nation to do so, and still have lower taxes. After we have paid all our debts what do you do? You could easily raise the debt ceiling breaking even every single year with a budget of $3.2 trillion (roughly the 2009 budget approved by Bush), lower taxes to even LOWER than Bush tax cuts, or a combination of the two. All through that, we as a nation as a whole wills till have lower taxes than other industrialized nations.
 
Undecided, lol. I support ending all deficit spending immediately, there's no reason we should be living beyond our means, but still need to learn more about how large the federal government should be and thus whether or not I would support any tax increases. I'm only 17.

Fortunately, the great majority of Americans have agreed that we need to both increase taxes and cut spending in order to reduce the deficit.
 
To me it is simple. Much of our budget is created by inefficiencies in a number of systems and having a massive industrial military complex. Currently, even in bad economic climate there is roughly $2.3 trillion in tax receipts a year but we still have $1.4 trillion deficit. This can be easily counteracted by scaling back military, and making everything else very efficient and bring the budget down to $2 trillion where it was at the beginning of the war in Afghanistan, meaning we could still have troops abroad in places where needed. This in turn gives us a 600 billion surplus a year. If you were to let Bush tax cuts phase out for the rich, a 900 billion surplus. If you were to let all Bush tax cuts phase out, 1.2 trillion surplus which is totally unheard of. In turn, the debt could be paid down in as little as 8 years, making us the only industrialized nation to do so, and still have lower taxes. After we have paid all our debts what do you do? You could easily raise the debt ceiling breaking even every single year with a budget of $3.2 trillion (roughly the 2009 budget approved by Bush), lower taxes to even LOWER than Bush tax cuts, or a combination of the two. All through that, we as a nation as a whole wills till have lower taxes than other industrialized nations.

interesting.


so in this mythical reality there is no baby boomer generation? and tax rates directly effect tax revenue?


In reality, unfortunately, Two Trillion will not even cover future Social Security and Medicare, much less any other government function. Furthermore, hiking the Bush Tax Rates won't get you more revenue. You could cut the entire DOD and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference, except that the loss of world wide security would likely lead to an international economic collapse to make 2008 look like a dress rehearsal.
 
I don't see how it's "unlibertarian". We should have controlled the government better prior to this point; but we didn't. This is the natural course of unrestricted government. But there's no such thing as a free lunch and eventually we have to pay for our mistakes. There is going to need to be massive downsizing of government spending; but we may need additional taxes since we allowed government to operate in unrestricted mode for too long. It's called taking responsibility and it's not out of line with libertarian idealism.

The problem is, you and I both know that they won't downsize. If you give Washington more money, they'll find more ways to spend it on things other than what it's intended for. The only solution is to stop giving them money.
 
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Didn't know you had not read the news or were unable to use the Google. Here you go:

President Obama

http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/TheMomentofTruth12_1_2010.pdf

Yeah no numbers whatsoever......what a surprise......

.....and you link the fiscal commission report from 2010.......well at least your trying.

The Republicans dragged Clinton into increasing revenues by raising taxes. Afraid I will have to call Bull**** on that big honking untruth! :sun

.....and BJ reformed Welfare.....after vetoing it twice.
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Yeah no numbers whatsoever......

From the link I provided above ~ "$2 trillion reductions in domestic and security spending; $1 trillion from tax reform; and $1 trillion from lower interest payments on debt."

That is what he is offering to be negotiated by Congress. The GOP at this point is saying they are not that interested in reducing the deficit if the taxes for the wealthiest Americans have to go up a few percentage points. The corner they have painted themselves into however is that the majority of voters think reducing the deficit is more important that the narrow GOP ideology of more tax breaks for the wealthy and special interests.





.....and BJ reformed Welfare.....after vetoing it twice.

Yep, just like Obama has reformed health care and proposed to do with medicare, SS, and military spending, our 3 biggest cost items. The GOP was opposed to the tax increase under Clinton as well, and we increased revenue and jobs, but they compromised with a little tax increase to get some spending cuts. That's how you reduce the deficit.
 
The GOP is in the position of really lousy parents who indulged a petulant snotty child allowing them to get obese and throw temper tantrums which were catered to by the doting parents. They now have a mini dinosaur with the temperament of a diva on their hands who is wrecking the house and making the whole family look bad to the rest of the neighborhood because they simply cannot control the brat.
 
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