the trick being that integration fears for the Italians and Irish led to actual attempts to... integrate them.
The existence of Little Italy, Southie, Chinatown, etc. shows that integration attempts never worked.
Integration occurs with the children and grandchildren and great grandchildren of immigrants,
not with the immigants themselves. You can't undo a lifetime of learning.
Many Americans today seem to have a highly romantacized view of past immigration where assimilation actually occured when it did not.
saying that our society has to survive, thrive, and rule because it has done so thus far was an argument that the ancient Romans and 19th Century British found appealing as well. I am less confident in our inevitability.
Of course I didn't say
that. The only thing I said that could resemble that would be that our survival, thriving and rule would not be affected by
immigration. I'm actualy quite certain that the US will eventually fall. It won't be immigration that causes it though. It will be the mistakes of our native population that leads to our downfall, IMO.
I also believe that we have survived, thrived and ruled
because of immigration.
and it's a worthy one. for example, we will probably see waves of European immigration in the future; as will Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
If our native population doesn't screw us up so bad that nobody wants to come anymore, sure.
it is indeed - someone has to produce all those folks who grow up and immigrate; counting on continuous immigration is sort of like paying your debt by borrowing. it can only last for so long before you crash.
It is not a necessity in
our society.
my only question then would be that the "all things being equal" tends to preclude "illegal immigrant" v (say) "legal immigrant" or "citizen".
Not at all. The
only difference is the means by which they arrived here if all otehr things are equal. There's nothing precluded by making that the only distinction.
it is asking whether or not the benefit of an added member to society is worth the loss incurred by illegal immigration.
Illegal immigration does not cause any inherent loss in and of itself.
And many people who come here illegally end up becoming legal residents and even citizens who are more productive than the average citizen.
There is one characteristic that
the vast majority of immigrants have (whether they are legal immigrants or illegal ones) that is not present in the majority of natural born citizens.
Immigrants are almost
always the go-getter types. This is why
so many immigrants are entrepreneurs who own their own businesses. They are willing to take big risks in order to get big rewards. Most native-born Americans do not have that drive, that determination. We are all too often complacent due to the fact that we grow up in relative comfort.
So, when we actually look at "all other things being equal" we actually have to consider the fact that we are discussing an exceptional native-born citizen in order to match teh personality traits of the average immigrant. And remember, illegal immigrants take an even greater risk than legal ones do.
My father is a prime example of the above. He ended up becoming a legal resident and citizen after he came here illegally. He has never really "integrated" with the US culture, being fully immersed in the Irish community here in Chicago, but he has certainly added to our society in a
far greater way than the average American as an entrepreneur and small business owner. As someone who has known a great many immigrants in my life (both legal and illegal), I can say that his story is not all that uncommon.
He has certainly contributed more than many a citizen. His status as having been an illegal immigrant doesn't negate the benefit that he added to our society.
else we haven't really propogated "our society", but rather another society that happened to have expanded intoour borders.
That is what has always happened with immigrants. See: chinatown, southie, Little Italy, etc for examples.
Integration occurs in later generations.