Do you want children?

MistressNomad said:

Yaaay, discounting the autonomy of other people for your own selfish gain! Not only that, but CREATING people for your own selfish gain!

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not at all. society needs more children. I am willing to take on the (considerable) trouble and cost of having and raising them. but the facts remain that children take care of aged parents - and in a demographic situation where we don't have several workers per retiree, the state cannot afford to step in and ensure the same level of care. So State benefits will be reduced for all retirees, and those who have children will be able to depend on them while those who do not (hopefully) have saved enough to make up the difference on their own. The problem being that now (because of the reduced work force compared to retiree numbers) we face a situation where there is a shortage of resources available to take care of retirees, which leads to a bidding war, so hopefully you saved more than your neighbor as well....

Ya know, I notice a lot of parents of that line of thought getting a nasty shock these days when they realize their kids are independent beings who get to make their own decisions.

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you take care of your parents when they age. my folks are taking care of my grandparents, who took care of my great grandparents first. I will take care of them when they get older, and my sons will take care of me and my wife one day - gently telling me I shouldn't drive any more, and should let them come over every other weekend to do the yard work; or that maybe the house is too much for us to take care of now, but they found this really great place that's close to them... and so on and so forth. that's the beauty of family - we take care of each other.

Furthermore, I would rather live in a society where I get to decide exactly how decrepit I want to let myself get, rather than being medically forced to languish for as long as possible, which is the current state of affairs. Problem solved.

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if you want to commit suicide at a given age that's your deal - but let's not try to push that as the only option for others, eh?

evanescence said:

Everyone else's child will pay.

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cute.



but no, they won't. because they cant. if it was only a few people who chose not to reproduce, or chose to only have one child, sure, that extra burden could be born. but once you get past that birthrate threshold... the die is cast. there won't be enough "other people's children" to pay for you.


and screw you, anyway, for wanting my children to be your slaves.

SheWolf said:

A lot of those problems could be fixed with immigration, unfortunately we usually try to make it harder for people to become citizens.

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in fact it is our mass hispanic immigration that is the only thing keeping us at a replacement rate in this country currently.

unfortunately, we do it stupidly, so the net economic effect is negative

BDBoop said:

I had a friend whose boys were 2, 4, and 6 when we sat down and watched "Bill Cosby, Himself." She became hysterical. We literally had to pause so she could laugh like a hyena.

I saw that video so many times, my daughter can, to this day, repeat portions of it verbatim. We'll yodel cheerfully in unison. "First you say it, then you do it!"

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that routine never gets old. even today I can call up a buddy of mine from when we were boys and yell "fiber! on my libbip!" and he just starts laughing.

cpwill said:

that routine never gets old. even today I can call up a buddy of mine from when we were boys and yell "fiber! on my libbip!" and he just starts laughing.

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"My wife stood up in the stirrups and told everybody in the delivery room that my parents were NEVER MARRIED!"

BDBoop said:

"My wife stood up in the stirrups and told everybody in the delivery room that my parents were NEVER MARRIED!"

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:lol: it's hilarious this has come up. just yesterday my three year old jabbed my 9-month old with a toy. when he started crying, the three year old started insisting that he was just trying to share the toy (which is why he had, I supposed, jabbed him in the back with it). I am trying to remonstrate the lad with my Serious Angry But Loving Dad Face and my wife bursts out with "I was getting a cookie for you!!!".


:lol:

cpwill said:

:lol: it's hilarious this has come up. just yesterday my three year old jabbed my 9-month old with a toy. when he started crying, the three year old started insisting that he was just trying to share the toy (which is why he had, I supposed, jabbed him in the back with it). I am trying to remonstrate the lad with my Serious Angry But Loving Dad Face and my wife bursts out with "I was getting a cookie for you!!!".


:lol:

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LMAO!!!

My daughter for years and years would go "You told me to not to for to drink your drink!!" "Why are you drinking it then?" "I DON'T KNOW!!"

aaaaAAAHHHHHh THEY SAY THAT! THEY REALLY SAY THAT!!! :lamo

I find it unsurprising that more men without children already don't want to have any, but in reference to the two women that said they don't want children, my question is how do you plan to fill that biological instinctive gap? Cats? I find it interesting much more guys with kids want more...maybe it has to also do with the ratio of men/women posters....

JohnWOlin said:

Someday, I would like to be the father of the most beautiful baby boy any of you will ever have the pleasure to lay eyes on.

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Too late, I already accomplished that 3 months ago. :lol:

Fiddytree said:

Yes..but

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"Parents are not interested in justice, they're interested in quiet!"

That is So true... :lamo

Tucker Case said:

Too late, I already accomplished that 3 months ago. :lol:

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Hey, I was going to tell him I did the double "beautiful baby girl" hat trick, 30 years AND three years ago (grandma).

I actually had an incident at a bakery when Tiara was maybe three months old. This lady was making me nervous, she was hovering but not saying anything. As we were walking out, she was driving away. She stopped her car, opened the window and said "I just had to tell you: That is the most beautiful baby I have ever seen."

Have 'em, wouldn't trade 'em for anything.

JohnWOlin said:

I find it unsurprising that more men without children already don't want to have any, but in reference to the two women that said they don't want children, my question is how do you plan to fill that biological instinctive gap? Cats? I find it interesting much more guys with kids want more...maybe it has to also do with the ratio of men/women posters....

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You're assuming I have such a gap to fill. I genuinely don't.

I will say that I appear to belong to a minority group amongst the childfree. It seems to me that most childfree people are so not because they have no parenting drive the way I do, but because they decided there were other things in life that were more important to them. For most, it's a sacrifice. For me, it's the only way I can picture myself living. I know others like myself, but we are a minority.

I do own a cat, but let's put it this way: having to care for a very old cat is at the absolute limit of my patience. And they are still nowhere near as needy as a child. In addition to that, I couldn't picture myself having more than one cat. What I like about cats is that you DON'T have to parent them. They're more like roommates and friends than children. This is why I prefer cats to dogs - dogs feel more like children to me.

Some of use genuinely have no desire to parent.

And some of us simply have more important things we'd rather be doing.

cpwill said:

not at all. society needs more children. I am willing to take on the (considerable) trouble and cost of having and raising them. but the facts remain that children take care of aged parents - and in a demographic situation where we don't have several workers per retiree, the state cannot afford to step in and ensure the same level of care. So State benefits will be reduced for all retirees, and those who have children will be able to depend on them while those who do not (hopefully) have saved enough to make up the difference on their own. The problem being that now (because of the reduced work force compared to retiree numbers) we face a situation where there is a shortage of resources available to take care of retirees, which leads to a bidding war, so hopefully you saved more than your neighbor as well....

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What if someone has things they'd rather be doing in life? Is pumping out kids the only way you see for people to contribute? How about the considerable trouble and cost of other types of great contribution? Because most of the time, that's why the childfree don't have kids - because it takes away from the time they have to dedicate to doing other things.

you take care of your parents when they age. my folks are taking care of my grandparents, who took care of my great grandparents first. I will take care of them when they get older, and my sons will take care of me and my wife one day - gently telling me I shouldn't drive any more, and should let them come over every other weekend to do the yard work; or that maybe the house is too much for us to take care of now, but they found this really great place that's close to them... and so on and so forth. that's the beauty of family - we take care of each other.

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They do? I guess that's why nursing homes are springing up left and right, eh? Bringing another human being into the world with the automatic expectation of how they will spend the most productive years of their life is not only selfish, but it's a great way for you to wind up screwed by not planning around the fact that maybe, just maybe, they have their own ideas of what they want to do with their lives? Sounds like the same sort of imaginary "Kodak moment" that makes people who shouldn't have kids wind up with them in the first place.

Mind you, that isn't to say I think it's bad when kids do this, and it also makes no statement about what I plan to do when my parents get older.

if you want to commit suicide at a given age that's your deal - but let's not try to push that as the only option for others, eh?

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No one is. Just saying people need to make better plans than "Oh, I can just force another autonomous person to do it." And also that I would personally not be interested in being taken care of. But that is just me.

And what if the kids you "pump out" have debilitating health issues? Is one supposed to "pump out" more, so they can not only care for the parent, but their older sibling?

Some people do genuinely lack the instinct to reproduce as evidenced above. There's nothing wrong with that so long as those people don't live under the mistaken assumption that they are somehow more intelligent or productive than those who choose to have children.

Tucker Case said:

Too late, I already accomplished that 3 months ago. :lol:

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Just as the wold of technology, something newer will always be better. Give me a few years.....

MistressNomad said:

You're assuming I have such a gap to fill. I genuinely don't.

I will say that I appear to belong to a minority group amongst the childfree. It seems to me that most childfree people are so not because they have no parenting drive the way I do, but because they decided there were other things in life that were more important to them. For most, it's a sacrifice. For me, it's the only way I can picture myself living. I know others like myself, but we are a minority.

I do own a cat, but let's put it this way: having to care for a very old cat is at the absolute limit of my patience. And they are still nowhere near as needy as a child. In addition to that, I couldn't picture myself having more than one cat. What I like about cats is that you DON'T have to parent them. They're more like roommates and friends than children. This is why I prefer cats to dogs - dogs feel more like children to me.

Some of use genuinely have no desire to parent.

And some of us simply have more important things we'd rather be doing.

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Why did you have to explain it like that? You could have just said "Me and only me will be #1 in my life all the time." I could have took that answer. Give it 10-20 years though guarantee you that your tune will change, and in 20-30 years might be to late and you'll have like 20 cats.

evanescence said:

Some people do genuinely lack the instinct to reproduce as evidenced above. There's nothing wrong with that so long as those people don't live under the mistaken assumption that they are somehow more intelligent or productive than those who choose to have children.

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Oh but they do make that mistaken assumption. I mean why would they want to be distracted by "pumping out" a few kids. They all have much more important things to do in life???

JohnWOlin said:

Why did you have to explain it like that? You could have just said "Me and only me will be #1 in my life all the time." I could have took that answer. Give it 10-20 years though guarantee you that your tune will change, and in 20-30 years might be to late and you'll have like 20 cats.

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So you asked the question, and then get ticked that I gave you a thorough answer?

Where did I say it's me and only me? If you'd bothered to read my answer, a conclusion more like "there are certain types of interactions I enjoy more than others, in a way that is minority" would have been a more sensible conclusion. As a matter of fact I do a hell of a lot to help people, big and small alike - probably more than you do. Can you just not handle the fact that someone doesn't feel the way you do about it?

Yes, of course. Obviously you know me better than I do, so of course you must be right. Ignoring the fact that a lot of people remain childfree for life, and happily so.

Oh no, "too late" to pop one out! Whatever will I do!? Besides breathe a sigh of relief...

You just can't handle someone not thinking what you're doing is important to them, can you? Is me agreeing with you really that necessary to your own sense of worth?

MistressNomad said:

So you asked the question, and then get ticked that I gave you a thorough answer?

Where did I say it's me and only me? If you'd bothered to read my answer, a conclusion more like "there are certain types of interactions I enjoy more than others, in a way that is minority" would have been a more sensible conclusion. Can you just not handle the fact that someone doesn't feel the way you do about it?

Yes, of course. Obviously you know me better than I do, so of course you must be right. Ignoring the fact that a lot of people remain childfree for life, and happily so.

Oh no, "too late" to pop one out! Whatever will I do!? Besides breathe a sigh of relief...

You just can't handle someone not thinking what you're doing is important to them, can you? Is me agreeing with you really that necessary to your own sense of worth?

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My best friend went the childfree route. She's 50<mumble> now, and does not for a moment regret her decision. My niece is her corgi-mix, Mitzi.

BDBoop said:

My best friend went the childfree route. She's 50<mumble> now, and does not for a moment regret her decision. My niece is her corgi-mix, Mitzi.

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I am godmother to my best friend's Garfield cat. :lol:

ha! The self worth argument. opcorn:

Next, we'll be hearing about how not having kids adds IQ points.

evanescence said:

ha! The self worth argument. opcorn:

Next, we'll be hearing about how not having kids adds IQ points.

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I can't think of any other reason someone would ask a question about whether or not I feel a "hole" in me, and then when I tell them "no," they go on about how I must not know myself and I'll change my mind because having kids is the only thing worth doing and if I don't agree I must hate humanity and be a selfish jerk.

What reason besides the need for validation would someone have for saying that?

SheWolf said:

I keep reading articles in magazines that say women are having fewer kids and there is less desire to have kids. It seems like more women want to be child free than men, so I thought I'd do a poll.

Here is a recent article I read.

Birth-Rate Study: In Recession, Fewer Women Having Kids - TIME

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I don't currently have any kids, and I'm not currently planning to have any.

I'm not married and at this moment not really dating. And I absolutely refuse to bring another life into this world until I'm sure me and my significant other are stable enough to provide for the child what he or her needs.

Until then, I'm not going to angst over the fact that I'm not in that position.