• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should states have the right to secede?

Secession from the USA

  • Total voters
    33
So should the republics of the former USSR be forced to rejoin?

.
 
States as they presently exist are rather obsolete. The world is much more interconnected. Just imagine if the fundamental laws that govern your life didn't change as you traveled around the country... Taxes would be much more uniform. We would never have disasters from the electoral college ever again. We could probably do away with having two chambers of congress and just have one. That way we'd be past the prima donnas in the senate and all the filibuster nonsense. There's nothing sacred or perfect about the systems we have in the constitution. They were great for their time, but there's no reason to expect them to be ideal forever.

But as for secession... it would be a really stupid thing to do. That's a lot of trade and industry that an area would be cutting itself off from. How friendly do you think the rest of the country would be to the newly seceded state? I would predict at least an embargo. Kind of like the kid who wants to run away from home, but still come back to do laundry. Not gonna happen.
 
TOJ said:
So should the republics of the former USSR be forced to rejoin?

.
Click to expand...

Yes. Nothing good came of the breakup, just a dozen more dictators and crime syndicates with their own 'states'.
 
People who hate the U.S. have the right to leave, already. It's called 'immigration'.

Since Canada likes to toss spitballs at the U.S. for it's 'racism' against criminal illegal aliens and Israel for refusing to commit suicide re undocumented Arabs, I suggest 40 or 50 million Americans flood into Canada and set up tent cities, and let's see if they practice what they preach.

Another 50 to 100 million should organize a massive 'Flotilla' and sail to Europe and demand political asylum from the 'fascist American government'.

Going by the hubris on internet message boards, that should clear out most of the whiners and neo-liberals and crackpots, and the rest of us can some serious reforms done for a change.
 
Last edited:
Henrin said:
Wow, that fun to read. You have a blog or something?
Click to expand...

I have two. If the site paid, I would start one here, too, but they don't and prefer free content providers, and in any case, message boards are all blogs in themselves, all be it small and posted in pieces scattered around.

Most of the stuff posted in political forums is merely stuff transferred from other sites and talking points trees from bloggers and 'news' sites.
 
Oberon said:
Well ... what a convincing refutation ... and with irrefutable examples, too.

I stand corrected.
Click to expand...

Yea I guess we'd have to totally forget Eastern Europe and how they're rising economic powers, that happen to be some form of democratic republic.

Estonia, Czeck Republic, to name 2.
 
Thunder said:
seceding from the Union, because 51% of the people who show up to vote say "yes", IS tryanny.
Click to expand...

I hope you realize you just called democracy tyranny. Do you also realize this is one of the problem of democracy and the government doing a great deal?
 
As the US isn't a confederation, no they shouldn't and they don't have the right to come and go as they choose.

Practically however, the states DO have the choice to secede, as demonstrated during the civil war. If Texas chooses to recognize itself as a sovereign nation US law no longer applies to Texas as for as Texas is concerned. The US government probably wouldn't take kindly to this desicion though.
 
I'd still like to know by what measure of public opinion should a state be able to secede?

State referendum..with 51% of voters saying "yes"?

what if only 1/3rd of registered voters actually votes?

and even if 100% of registered voters votes, and the referendum passes by 51%, what about the 49% that says no?

imposing the will of 51% of registered voters, upon the ENTIRE population of a state, when it comes to matters of secession and sovereignty, is TYRANNY.
 
Henrin said:
I hope you realize you just called democracy tyranny.
Click to expand...

yes, in matters of independence and soveriegnity, simply relying upon 51% of registered voters, is tyranny.

surely the bar for such matters should be raised to a super-majority, and a certain percentage of registered voters MUST participate.
 
TOJ said:
So should the republics of the former USSR be forced to rejoin?
Click to expand...

much of the Republics of the USSR was already part of the Russian Empire, which was consolidated by the power of the gun and the cannon.

and anyway, did the Republics of the USSR have democratic and elected state legislatures that ALL ratified becoming part of the Soviet Union?

no, no they did not.
 
repeter said:
1. Wrong. 2. Wrong. 3. It was about the same thing we're talking about right now. And history is on my side, not yours. The Union won the war, not the Confederacy.
Click to expand...
1.no, Right
2. no, Right
3. Up to opinion whether you want to say it was for slavery or not, at least it wasn't a war on slavery in the beginning of the war ( the rest of it is just debatable. It wasnt for the majority of people but was for some of the higher-ups of the war.
 
Last edited:
No, they shouldn't be able to secede.
 
Along the same lines, if States should have the right to secede, and I believe they should, then shouldn't the nation have a right to boot a State or territory from the union?
 
Any region that can maintain itself as a country has the right to assert its independence, but any other territories to which it belongs in mutual partnership have the right to insist on unity ... in both cases up to applied military force.

The most constitutionally acceptable premise for secession is that the federal government is no longer a republic and returning it or replacing it with one is not viable.
 
Those that do not believe a state should have the right to secede, I believe you are not envisioning a scenario were you personally wish your state to secede.

Now I know this scenario is on the extreme side of things but picture this. The Federal government has reinstituted indentured servitude with the general support of the American people. Your state is among the few that disagree with this and has exhausted all legal avenues to combat this change. Its final option to avoid abiding by the new laws is to secede.

Would you reluctantly live with it and go with the will of the (national) people or might you consider leaving the union so not to impose the people of your state to such treatment?
 
The only way a state should be able to secede is if they can beat the US military in a revolt against our government. Good luck with that.
 
repeter said:
I don't understand why people still cling to the compact theory. Its validity died out with the Confederacy. The United States of America are and shall remain undivided. What's that saying divide and conquer? Well, if we divide, we'll easily be conquered.

If there are grievances or differences, they can be resolved; thats the entire purpose of the USA as it is. To compromise, and progress towards a more perfect Union.
Click to expand...

Haven't agreed with a Democrat this strongly in a while.
 
what if a state wants out, but the neighboring states desperately rely on them for services, jobs, workers, fuel, resources, etc etc.???

Staten Island wanted to leave NYC. Well, the only way that can happen is if they pass a referendum...AND the State Legislature says ok.

that's how it should work. sorry Dixie.
 
Thunder said:
what if a state wants out, but the neighboring states desperately rely on them for services, jobs, workers, fuel, resources, etc etc.???
Click to expand...

Why does independence mean that you cant work/trade across borders? This is the norm across the world.
 
Your Star said:
The only way a state should be able to secede is if they can beat the US military in a revolt against our government. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...

Why is it that people don't want to fight people that want to kill us but at the same time want to kill people that just don't want to be part of the union anymore and want no harm to come to anyone? If anyone has an answer I will listen.

Why not just let them leave and help them get started as a country instead?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom