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Is Russia just as bad as the Soviet Union?

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  • Total voters
    22
How can you even possibly say that "work[ing] people to death with barely enough wage to provide for their needs" isn't bad?! Not to mention the fact that "everything except for the Slavic culture...was banned".

and if you dont think that was an extremely bad thing about the soviet union... your messed up.

I don't know of anyone worked to death trying to get a wage to provide for their needs. Why? Because the Soviet Union was filled with just the opposite. The state provided everyone with an apartment, a car, some food and some vodka, clothes when you needed 'em, and a lovely month off in the summer. Were they of the finest quality that a person could own at that time? No, of course not. In general, it was all of a very mediocre quality. But everyone had it. EVERYONE. No one was working themselves to death to get some bread -- in the Soviet Union, the idea wouldn't have even crossed our thoughts. We would get out bread, whether or not we worked hard. Working hard didn't have an effect on the amount of vodka we got. THAT is the oft-maligned reality of the Soviet Union -- hard work was not always rewarded as perhaps it ought to have been.

But do not come to me and say that people were slaving away in factories and farms for a scrap of bread. That's not how it was.
 
Pfft. Don't whine because your bitch-control game was weak. :pimpdaddy:


EDIT: Wow...it didn't censor that.

The only words that are censored are ****, ****, and ****.

Edit: my bad, the f-word, the s-word, and the c-word.
 
How can you even possibly say that "work[ing] people to death with barely enough wage to provide for their needs" isn't bad?! Not to mention the fact that "everything except for the Slavic culture...was banned".

and if you dont think that was an extremely bad thing about the soviet union... your messed up.

I don't know of anyone worked to death trying to get a wage to provide for their needs. Why? Because the Soviet Union was filled with just the opposite. The state provided everyone with an apartment, a car, some food and some vodka, clothes when you needed 'em, and a lovely month off in the summer. Were they of the finest quality that a person could own at that time? No, of course not. In general, it was all of a very mediocre quality. But everyone had it. EVERYONE. No one was working themselves to death to get some bread -- in the Soviet Union, the idea wouldn't have even crossed our thoughts. We would get out bread, whether or not we worked hard. Working hard didn't have an effect on the amount of vodka we got. THAT is the oft-maligned reality of the Soviet Union -- hard work was not always rewarded as perhaps it ought to have been.

But do not come to me and say that people were slaving away in factories and farms for a scrap of bread. That's not how it was.

Oh goodie, epic commie showdown! :popcorn2:
 
Oh goodie, epic commie showdown! :popcorn2:

Ahaha. Actually, I'm not a communist. I'm just a liberal-democratic socialist, I work with the Labour party here in Britain. I keep the Hammer and Sickle as my avatar for my heritage.
 
Ahaha. Actually, I'm not a communist. I'm just a liberal-democratic socialist, I work with the Labour party here in Britain. I keep the Hammer and Sickle as my avatar for my heritage.

what part of your heritage?
 
what part of your heritage?

The Soviet part. :p I am Soviet, though now I'm also British and French. My mother was Russian, my father English. We lived in the Soviet Union for years, and then also in Russia after the USSR collapsed into the annals of history.
 
I was obviously mocking celticwar17. You guys ruined it by making me explain myself.

Ah, my apologies. I thought you were serious. :p I was wondering why your avatar is dear old Lenin, with such anti-Soviet views, though. XD
 
For whom? The collapse of the USSR was absolutely terrible for the majority of Russian citizens.

...yeah, I know. Good thing that was ten years ago, and we're talking about Russia now. What are you even saying? And in regards to something else you posted, just because there was no chattel slavery in USSR, does not mean there was no slave labor: Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can gussy this up and call it "forced labor" or "prison labor" if you want, but it's essentially slave labor.

Also, to those who think crime is bad in the current Russian Federation? It was actually worse in the nineties. Wrap your mind around that.
 
Well, I feel like I can speak with some measure of expertise on this subject, being Russian myself. I live between the UK and Russia, now, but I've spent near on half my life (a considerable long time, I might add) in that country, and the Soviet Union.

And I'm here to say, the question of this poll is quite a loaded one. I don't know whether the Russia of now is better or worse than the Soviet Union was -- it certainly is different. But the important part of this post is to say that the Soviet Union wasn't bad. Most of you have spent your entire lives on one side of the Iron Curtain, or, for the younger members of DP, on neither side. There's so much bad press about the Soviet Union, such a loud minority of Russian emigres and dissenters, and, of course, half the world propagating this sort of thing. They say history is written by the victors, but I think it is more apt to say that what's for certain is that history is written by the survivors.

Point is, though, that the Soviet Union wasn't bad, wasn't a hellhole, wasn't an 'evil empire'. It had its problems, like the other nations of the world, but it had its glories and victories as well. And I'd bet that if you ask most of the Russians today how they felt about the Soviet Union, nostalgia would be the reigning emotion in their answers.

So, long post-short, this poll is bloody stupid, because it's heavily biased against Russia, and no-matter what is decided, Russia is going to lose out.

The guy with the hammer-and-sickle avatar is talking about bias? :roll:

As if the Soviet Union was some misunderstood, crack-addicted celebrity being hounded by the international press. There wasn't much need to fabricate or exaggerate anything. The Soviet government did what people said it did. The only reason people back there feel nostalgia is because everyone else left -- hence the massive population decline.
 
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The guy with the hammer-and-sickle avatar is talking about bias? :roll:

As if the Soviet Union was some misunderstood, crack-addicted celebrity being hounded by the international press. There wasn't much need to fabricate or exaggerate anything. The Soviet government did what people said it did. The only reason people back there feel nostalgia is because everyone else left -- hence the massive population decline.

I don't think it was misunderstood, I think it was misrepresented. I lived there. Many of my friends and family lived there. I know, from direct experience, that the things said about it were untrue, and are untrue. It's just a shame, is all.

Also, the reason the population declined is the other fourteen republics split away from Russia. XD If you added them all up, their population would again total the Soviet Union's, adjusting for the increasing birth rates in this new century. Russia's population didn't all just pack up and leave when the Soviet Union dissolved. XD
 
...yeah, I know. Good thing that was ten years ago, and we're talking about Russia now. What are you even saying? And in regards to something else you posted, just because there was no chattel slavery in USSR, does not mean there was no slave labor: Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can gussy this up and call it "forced labor" or "prison labor" if you want, but it's essentially slave labor.

Also, to those who think crime is bad in the current Russian Federation? It was actually worse in the nineties. Wrap your mind around that.

It was bad in the 90's BECAUSE the Soviet Union collapsed. Life in the Soviet Union was better than life in Russian in the 90s, which is why Russians are baffled that the West heralds the decline of the Soviet Union as some great triumph. It was a disaster.

Anyway, I might add that crime rates in the US is worse than crime in Russia right now. XD
 
I don't think it was misunderstood, I think it was misrepresented. I lived there. Many of my friends and family lived there. I know, from direct experience, that the things said about it were untrue, and are untrue. It's just a shame, is all.

Maybe the Russian people were misrepresented, but generally the USSR was, in fact, guilty as charged.

Also, the reason the population declined is the other fourteen republics split away from Russia. XD If you added them all up, their population would again total the Soviet Union's, adjusting for the increasing birth rates in this new century. Russia's population didn't all just pack up and leave when the Soviet Union dissolved. XD

This is highly questionable, given the demographic trends in Russia and the CIS post-1991.

And besides, my whole point was that the people who would NOT have looked upon the Soviet Union nostalgically were the ones who left. That's what I mean when I say "everyone else." You can't deny that the population of eastern Europe declined after 1991, even if it has recovered in some places by now. It's historical fact.

It was bad in the 90's BECAUSE the Soviet Union collapsed. Life in the Soviet Union was better than life in Russian in the 90s, which is why Russians are baffled that the West heralds the decline of the Soviet Union as some great triumph. It was a disaster.

Oh for god's sake...go read the post he quoted from me and see why his response doesn't make sense. All I said was that economically, things are much better now. Not in the nineties. Now. You're arguing on the side of someone who completely misunderstood me in the first place.
 
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...yeah, I know. Good thing that was ten years ago, and we're talking about Russia now. What are you even saying? And in regards to something else you posted, just because there was no chattel slavery in USSR, does not mean there was no slave labor: Gulag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can gussy this up and call it "forced labor" or "prison labor" if you want, but it's essentially slave labor.

Also, to those who think crime is bad in the current Russian Federation? It was actually worse in the nineties. Wrap your mind around that.

I don't get how people can completely ignore history... severe case of Hindsight bias going on here.
 
Anyway, I might add that crime rates in the US is worse than crime in Russia right now. XD

Russian police are 20X more corrupt then american police are. And there is a lot more organized crime there too.
 
This is an interesting thread. I found a Q&A on Yahoo Answers where they ask what life was like during the Soviet Union. The answers from people who actually lived there sound credible. They make me think life wasn't as bad there as we in America have been lead to believe.

What was life in the Soviet Union like?
 
This is an interesting thread. I found a Q&A on Yahoo Answers where they ask what life was like during the Soviet Union. The answers from people who actually lived there sound credible. They make me think life wasn't as bad there as we in America have been lead to believe.

What was life in the Soviet Union like?

Yup - my wife came here as a POLITICAL REFUGEE from Communist Hungary and she said MANY TIMES that the police here are worse than what she was raised with there.
 
This is an interesting thread. I found a Q&A on Yahoo Answers where they ask what life was like during the Soviet Union. The answers from people who actually lived there sound credible. They make me think life wasn't as bad there as we in America have been lead to believe.

What was life in the Soviet Union like?

But of course, the propaganda wasn't sleeping. ;) The badass Russians will come and conquer America or nuke it flat or both! Hm, not really. :)
 
This is an interesting thread. I found a Q&A on Yahoo Answers where they ask what life was like during the Soviet Union. The answers from people who actually lived there sound credible. They make me think life wasn't as bad there as we in America have been lead to believe.

What was life in the Soviet Union like?

It really wasn't. In fact, having lived in the States for a short while, as well as the UK, France and Russia, I would say that, the most striking thing about life in the USSR v. the USA was how similar it was.

I'm not saying that life in the USSR was better than life in the USA. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that everywhere you turned, in either country, you'd be confronted with largely the same situation. If you were in the upper-crust of Soviet society, a Party member, you did not know want. If you were rich in the States, you did not know want. However, if you were a poor Ukrainian peasant in the Soviet Union, you were in for some hard times of repression and hunger. Similarly, if you were a black man in the South of the US, you'd face the same trials.

The Cold War's over, I don't see why one side continues to demonise the other, when the other thoroughly doesn't care any more.
 
It really wasn't. In fact, having lived in the States for a short while, as well as the UK, France and Russia, I would say that, the most striking thing about life in the USSR v. the USA was how similar it was.

In the sense that you wake up, go to school, have a job, etc....sure.

I'm not saying that life in the USSR was better than life in the USA. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that everywhere you turned, in either country, you'd be confronted with largely the same situation. If you were in the upper-crust of Soviet society, a Party member, you did not know want. If you were rich in the States, you did not know want. However, if you were a poor Ukrainian peasant in the Soviet Union, you were in for some hard times of repression and hunger. Similarly, if you were a black man in the South of the US, you'd face the same trials.

A black man in 1932 did not face the Holodomor.

Besides, I don't think comparing extremes while ignoring the life of the "average" citizen is really the way to go here. In that respect, the American middle-class comes out ahead.

The Cold War's over, I don't see why one side continues to demonise the other, when the other thoroughly doesn't care any more.

The other side doesn't exist anymore.
 
With Medvedev sort of going against Putin on things, I think it is getting better since there is actual political debate and discussion there now.
 
In the sense that you wake up, go to school, have a job, etc....sure.



A black man in 1932 did not face the Holodomor.

Besides, I don't think comparing extremes while ignoring the life of the "average" citizen is really the way to go here. In that respect, the American middle-class comes out ahead.



The other side doesn't exist anymore.

No, indeed not. The Holodomor was horrible, and Stalin a monster. No one would ever dream to claim he wasn't. But there's this tendency in the States to believe, somehow, incredibly, that Stalin represented the entirety of our nation. He didn't. He died in 1953, after which he was denounced and dethroned, and life got better. Just around the time the middle class in America started appearing, as well.

But that's the thing. We're comparing the two Cold War nations, are we not? The Cold War only started around that time -- the horrors of the 1930's, while terrible, were not and are not considered part of the Cold War. An arbitrary definition? I don't think so. The Second World War changed the face of the world, but no country was changed more than the Soviet Union, the battered victor over Nazism, who lost tens of millions of citizens defending the world against Hitler, only to be shunned by the rest of her allies afterwards. It's at that point you can start the 'competition', so to speak -- not in the 1920's when revolutionary fire still burnt through the steppes, not in the 1930's when a monster seized power and nearly drove the nation into the ground, and not in the 1940's when the Soviet Union was busy winning the largest war in the history of mankind.

Now, in a comparison of the American middle class of, say, 1965, and the Soviet 'middle' class of, say, 1965, it's true enough that the Americans will come out with a few more amenities. The Soviets had an apartment, a car, a tv, some food and some vodka, a job and a vacation. The Americans probably had all that plus a refrigerator and a microwave. :p In return, the crime rate in the Soviet Union was less than the crime rate of that in America. In America you got denounced for being a commie, in the Soviet Union you get denounced for being a capitalist spy. In both countries millions suffered, millions prospered, and most people just went on with their average lives.

It's the truth, I assure you.


One last point, though -- the other side isn't gone. :p That one always tickles me -- we're right here. Russia's got a different name now, and a different flag, and perhaps a different way of making people beg for oil and gas, true enough, but the Russians never change, and so the heart of the country will never change.
 
How was the Soviet Union shunned by her allies? Just looking for some views on that.
 
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