How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rights?

ludahai · Jun 25, 2011

Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

ludahai · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

MOD -- please fix this, there was supposed to be a fifth option - F -- thanks

ludahai · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Living in Taiwan...

Article 1 - Taiwan does a pretty good job here. Most of the problems come from a small number, usually elderly, people who are pretty closed minded.
Article 2 - Taiwanese have political rights. The problem her efrom a taiwan standpoint is not from our government, but from the UN and its specialized agencies as they have time and again discriminated against Taiwanese.
Article 3 - Taiwan does very well here
Article 4 - The only problem here is that Taiwan is a destination country in human trafficking and while it is legally prohibited, in many cases the government looks the other way.
Article 5 - Taiwan is fine here

Over all grade = B

spud_meister · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:
Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

The Australian accent means we lose all dignity, so we fail on that one.

Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Yeah, we have that one on the bag. (have for the past 50 years:lol

Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

My person doesn't feel very secure considering I'm not allowed to carry any sort of defence except my fists (and the government may regulate them) so no.

Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

I've been a slave, but that was just in the bedroom, so I guess it doesn't count. However, having to listen to our PM speak clearly comes under cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, so we fail that too.

:2australi

Redress · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:
MOD -- please fix this, there was supposed to be a fifth option - F -- thanks

Moderator's Warning:

F is added

ludahai · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Redress said:
Moderator's Warning:

F is added

Much obliged...

Jucon · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

I can't imagine any way to justify giving America an "A".

I'd give America a C, B- at best.

Goshin · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Jucon said:
I can't imagine any way to justify giving America an "A".

I'd give America a C, B- at best.

Could you be specific as to why? Personally I don't see why you would NOT give America an A, or at least a B.

ecofarm · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Jucon said:
I can't imagine any way to justify giving America an "A".

I'd give America a C, B- at best.

You support Gaddafi remaining in power. Explain that vote.

Wiseone · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:
Could you be specific as to why? Personally I don't see why you would NOT give America an A, or at least a B.

Gay rights at the least push it down to a B in my opinion, not to mention the use of "strenuous" torture in extremely very cases, but it has happened.

Luna Tick · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

article 1.
• all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.they are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

C - Average

article 2.
• everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

B - Good

article 3.
• everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

D - Poor

article 4.
• no one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

C - Average

article 5.
• no one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

F - Fail

Kandahar · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:
Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

The United States is pretty good at Articles I and II...far from perfect, but better than most nations. But the horrid conditions in our prisons (and the tragic injustice of our criminal "justice" system overall) mean that the United States does very poorly on Articles III, IV, and V. In my opinion, this mistake is compounded by the fact that many people view this as hilarious, rather than as a problem that needs to be solved.

I give the United States an A on the first two, and a D on the last three, for a C overall.

Goshin · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Wiseone said:
Gay rights at the least push it down to a B in my opinion, not to mention the use of "strenuous" torture in extremely very cases, but it has happened.

Seriously?

About the only "gay right" that isn't universal is SSM, and SSM is permitted in several states. Based on Massachusetts there aren't really that many gay couples that even want to get married... like less than 1/2 % of the population. Compare that to Iran, where they execute homosexuals, and you really think SSM is such a big huge deal?

Misterveritis · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration

Don't get sucked in. Does anyone want to bet there is a provision in the declaration that says everyone has a right to all kinds of goodies, and that the rich should pay for them? In this case the rich meaning the United States, of course.

Pffft. We need to get the United Nations out of the United States. And then we need to get the US out of the UN.

Jucon · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:
Could you be specific as to why? Personally I don't see why you would NOT give America an A, or at least a B.

Torture, the death penalty, hatred / mistrust of other religions / political parties / races, lack of gay rights,... those are just a few off the top of my head.

I still think American is among the top human rights advocates, but we still have a long way to go.

But unlike many American teachers when grading their students, I don't curve grades just because many other countries around the world have worse human rights records.

ecofarm said:
You support Gaddafi remaining in power. Explain that vote.

How about trying to fully understand someone else's position before making such inflammatory comments?

Paschendale · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

USA

We get... half credit for article one. As long as you're white, heterosexual, and at least middle class, this applies to you. The poor, especially blacks, and gays are not treated with the same dignity as others. So, 50% for this one.

Equal rights? Oops! No credit here. There's on-paper discrimination against gays and a whole lot of discrimination against blacks and latinos that is just practiced unofficially.

Life, liberty, and security of person? Again, partial credit. A whole lot of our liberties and securities have gone out the window in the last fifty years. But there are plenty of things we do right. It's just that the list keeps shrinking, rather than growing. 8/10

We do a good job opposing slavery. Full credit.

We torture. Zero points. There is no partial credit for this one.

That's a little about 2.4 out of 5. Last I checked, less than half is a failing grade everywhere.

I think the fact that we can only say "yes" firmly to one of the five criteria shows that we have a lot of work to do if we want to truly recapture the status of being a beacon to the rest of the world. American exceptionalism requires that we actually BE exceptional, not just that we think we are. And I know we have the ability to be great again. That's some American exceptionalism I truly do believe in.

Fiddytree · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

I decided to vote A irregardless.

Kandahar · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:
Could you be specific as to why? Personally I don't see why you would NOT give America an A, or at least a B.

The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by far, and conditions in American prisons essentially amount to state-sanctioned sexual slavery (most countries don't have tacky "drop the soap" jokes). People in this country are routinely sentenced to prison for years for victimless drug crimes, or for things that they didn't even KNOW were crimes. In most countries, people at least know whether they're doing something that can land them in prison, but that is not always the case here. Our criminal justice system is among the worst in the world...far worse than countries like China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Risky Thicket · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Overall a D for the United States.

Luna Tick · Jun 25, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Kandahar said:
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by far, and conditions in American prisons essentially amount to state-sanctioned sexual slavery (most countries don't have tacky "drop the soap" jokes). People in this country are routinely sentenced to prison for years for victimless drug crimes, or for things that they didn't even KNOW were crimes. In most countries, people at least know whether they're doing something that can land them in prison, but that is not always the case here. Our criminal justice system is among the worst in the world...far worse than countries like China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

I agree with much of what you say, but I don't think our criminal justice system is worse than that of Iran where they stone women to death for adultery and hang people for being homosexual.

Goshin · Jun 26, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Kandahar said:
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by far, and conditions in American prisons essentially amount to state-sanctioned sexual slavery (most countries don't have tacky "drop the soap" jokes). People in this country are routinely sentenced to prison for years for victimless drug crimes, or for things that they didn't even KNOW were crimes. In most countries, people at least know whether they're doing something that can land them in prison, but that is not always the case here. Our criminal justice system is among the worst in the world...far worse than countries like China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

I'm sorry but bull****.

How much time have you spent in prison? I've spent more than a little time in them in my law enforcement past. They aren't as nice as some people think, but they are hardly hellholes. Most inmates are in mid to low security prisons which from what I've seen are pretty orderly and not really that violent. Granted that some hi-sec prisons where they incarcerate the worst-of-the-worst are a different story, but there's only so much you can do with scum. They make their own hell.

Our criminal justice system is WORSE than China's, where they execute dissidents and make the family pay for the bullet?? WORSE than Iran's, where they hang, stone or decapitate girls unfortunate enough to get raped?? WORSE than Saudi Arabia where violations of Sharia can get you stoned or chopped?? That is one of the most outrageously unfactual claims I've ever heard. I'm tempted to ask what you've been smoking.

Wiseone · Jun 26, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Goshin said:
Seriously?

About the only "gay right" that isn't universal is SSM, and SSM is permitted in several states. Based on Massachusetts there aren't really that many gay couples that even want to get married... like less than 1/2 % of the population. Compare that to Iran, where they execute homosexuals, and you really think SSM is such a big huge deal?

Don't forget about serving openly in the military, there's also the matter of issues that involve "immediate family" only, not to mention potential tax breaks that married couples and married couples with children that gay households cannot receive for the most part.

There's also the issue of our criminal Justice system, and this:

Sourced from here:
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/downloads/world-prison-pop-seventh.pdf

The US has more people in person in total numbers AND as a percentage of population than any other country on earth that we can reasonably track. I say reasonably because of places like North Korea, or China which has a number on this list but I wouldn't count on it being exactly accurate. But either way the number of people in prison in the US is ridiculous, I think the problem has to do with the fact that many District prosecutors are elected and not appointed, of course in an election where your job is to prosecute criminals everyone wants to hear you're going to be the toughest mother ****er on the block, and they deliver. The same with politicians who want to be "tough on crime" and pass laws requiring minimum sentences for petty petty crimes.

I post this article a while ago and its still a great read if you have the time, and I beg you to read it, its only about three pages long and comes from the Economist which is a reputable news service. It will open your eyes
Rough justice in America: Too many laws, too many prisoners | The Economist

Justice is harsher in America than in any other rich country. Between 2.3m and 2.4m Americans are behind bars, roughly one in every 100 adults. If those on parole or probation are included, one adult in 31 is under “correctional” supervision. As a proportion of its total population, America incarcerates five times more people than Britain, nine times more than Germany and 12 times more than Japan. Overcrowding is the norm. Federal prisons house 60% more inmates than they were designed for. State lock-ups are only slightly less stuffed.

Goshin · Jun 26, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Wiseone said:
Don't forget about serving openly in the military, there's also the matter of issues that involve "immediate family" only, not to mention potential tax breaks that married couples and married couples with children that gay households cannot receive for the most part.

There's also the issue of our criminal Justice system, and this:

Sourced from here:
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/law/research/icps/downloads/world-prison-pop-seventh.pdf

The US has more people in person in total numbers AND as a percentage of population than any other country on earth that we can reasonably track. I say reasonably because of places like North Korea, or China which has a number on this list but I wouldn't count on it being exactly accurate. But either way the number of people in prison in the US is ridiculous, I think the problem has to do with the fact that many District prosecutors are elected and not appointed, of course in an election where your job is to prosecute criminals everyone wants to hear you're going to be the toughest mother ****er on the block, and they deliver. The same with politicians who want to be "tough on crime" and pass laws requiring minimum sentences for petty petty crimes.

I post this article a while ago and its still a great read if you have the time, and I beg you to read it, its only about three pages long and comes from the Economist which is a reputable news service. It will open your eyes
Rough justice in America: Too many laws, too many prisoners | The Economist

Your first argument is invalid as we are currently reforming the military to allow openly-gay servicepersons. Your second is related to SSM which I've already addressed; it is legal in some states, not in others, but there appear to be very very few that really want it anyway, so I don't see it as such a huge deal.

If you recall I support legalizing the use and production of at least some drugs, which is about half of our prison population.

However, you look at Britain. They have a far higher rate of violent crime than we do. Why? 1. They coddle criminals... 2. they make it hard for honest citizens to defend themselves.

Our prison rates shot up after "three strikes" became common. Our crime rates also started to plummet. I expect there was a connection: keep habitual criminals in prison.

Slartibartfast · Jun 26, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

ludahai said:
Article 1.
• All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.
• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.
• Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.
• No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5.

• No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

- 1 letter grade for Gitmo and the security establishment since 9/11.
- 1 letter grade for the state of our healthcare and homosexual rights.

So that gives us a C

Kandahar · Jun 26, 2011

Re: How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rig

Luna Tick said:
I agree with much of what you say, but I don't think our criminal justice system is worse than that of Iran where they stone women to death for adultery and hang people for being homosexual.

Yep, Iran's justice system is terrible too...but a lot fewer people are subjected to it than are subjected to ours. Incarcerating nonviolent criminals is America's new national pastime. And it's true that we don't punish people for adultery or homosexuality, but we certainly have our share of equally ridiculous "crimes" that can land people in prison.

How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5 of the Universal Dec. of Human Rights?

How does your country stand up on Articles 1-5?

A

B

C

D

F

Defender of the Faith

Defender of the Faith

Defender of the Faith

Veni, vidi, dormivi!

Liberal Fascist For Life!

Defender of the Faith

Burned Out Ex-Mod

global liberation

Enemy Combatant

Burned Out Ex-Mod

Uncanny

Neocon Elitist

Enemy Combatant

Sewer Rat

Burned Out Ex-Mod

Burned Out Ex-Mod

Jesus loves you.

Enemy Combatant