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Atheism, Agnosticism and Theism

Which is more "intelligent"? Atheism, Agnosticism or Theism?

  • Total voters
    25
I've known brilliant believers and boneheaded atheists, and vice versa. Intelligence and faith are not incompatible.
 
Blackdog said:
Just adding some people seem to think "rational" is somehow equal to "intelligence" and they are not at all the same thing. Someone can be rational and still be as dumb as a box of rocks. Someone can be irrational and still be very intelligent.

I am a theist and I am just as intelligent and rational as anyone here.
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Well...that's a pretty wide spectrum, now isn't it? ;)
 
If people would read the arguments atheists are posting, they would know the answer.

The answer, once again, is that you've made a completely false assumption. Atheists do not claim god does not exist. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief in absence.
 
MistressNomad said:
If people would read the arguments atheists are posting, they would know the answer.

The answer, once again, is that you've made a completely false assumption. Atheists do not claim god does not exist. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief in absence.
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I think we've been through this before. The dictionary (as well as the etymology) say otherwise. I would characterize the former as simply a "nonbeliever."
 
StillBallin75 said:
I think we've been through this before. The dictionary (as well as the etymology) say otherwise. I would characterize the former as simply a "nonbeliever."
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Definitions of the term "Atheism"

Most of the North American public define an "Atheist" is a person who believes that no deity exists: neither a God, nor a Goddess, nor a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. This definition is reflected in American dictionaries -- not just because most publishers are Christian, but because it is the purpose of dictionaries to follow the public's word usage. Some individuals who consider themselves Atheists mesh well with that definition. But they may be in the minority. Many, perhaps most, Atheists simply have no belief about deity. For them, Atheism is not disbelief in a deity or deities; it is simply a lack of belief in any of them.
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MistressNomad said:
If people would read the arguments atheists are posting, they would know the answer.

The answer, once again, is that you've made a completely false assumption. Atheists do not claim god does not exist. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief in absence.
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I've not known an atheist who didn't claim flat out in no uncertain terms that that there is no Christian God, anyway. I can't think of a prominent atheist, from O'Hare to Christopher Hitchens, that didn't sneer condescendingly at the very idea.

But I've not kept up with the atheist circuit in awhile. Maybe their thinkers have grown more docile since I've been away.
 
LuckyDan said:
I've not known an atheist who didn't claim flat out in no uncertain terms that that there is no Christian God, anyway. I can't think of a prominent atheist, from O'Hare to Christopher Hitchens, that didn't sneer condescendingly at the very idea.

But I've not kept up with the atheist circuit in awhile. Maybe their thinkers have grown more docile since I've been away.
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Maddy O'Hare and Dickhead Hitchens do not represent most atheists. I am an atheist, and I simply have no faith in a god.
 
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Redress said:
Definitions of the term "Atheism"
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Most of the North American public define an "Atheist" is a person who believes that no deity exists: neither a God, nor a Goddess, nor a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. This definition is reflected in American dictionaries -- not just because most publishers are Christian, but because it is the purpose of dictionaries to follow the public's word usage. Some individuals who consider themselves Atheists mesh well with that definition. But they may be in the minority. Many, perhaps most, Atheists simply have no belief about deity. For them, Atheism is not disbelief in a deity or deities; it is simply a lack of belief in any of them.
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A distinction maybe, but what's the difference?
 
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LuckyDan said:
I've not known an atheist who didn't claim flat out in no uncertain terms that that there is no Christian God, anyway. I can't think of a prominent atheist, from O'Hare to Christopher Hitchens, that didn't sneer condescendingly at the very idea.

But I've not kept up with the atheist circuit in awhile. Maybe their thinkers have grown more docile since I've been away.
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That is true, and a somewhat different concept. Atheism deals with deities as a concept. If you're getting more particular, there is a case to be made that given definitions of a god, their given characteristics, and actions, can indeed be disproven. That can still be in line with atheism as a disbelief in deities, not a denial that any deity exists.
 
LuckyDan said:
A distinction maybe, but what's the difference?
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The difference is I don't say there is no god, I say I have no belief(nor interest) in a god. It's a large, unsubtle difference.
 
MistressNomad said:
The dictionary includes both definitions. Check it again.

Atheism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

...And there has been a recent etymological shift to "anti-theism" for strong atheism to make these two very different arguments more diffrenciated.
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I'm not sure the two M-W definitions are all that different. I guess it all depends on whether you view "disbelief" as a lack of belief, or as in a positive belief that something doesn't exist. Whatever we call it however, I think there exists an important distinction. Personally I think there should be a better word to describe people who simply lack belief.
 
Redress said:
Maddy O'Hare and Dickhead Hitchens do not represent most atheists. I am an atheist, and I simply have no faith in a god.
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Hey! I like Christopher! Yeah, he can be a dickhead. . . but such an erudite one!

Do you then think that a god may exist?
 
StillBallin75 said:
I'm not sure the two M-W definitions are all that different. I guess it all depends on whether you view "disbelief" as a lack of belief, or as in a positive belief that something doesn't exist. Whatever we call it however, I think there exists an important distinction. Personally I think there should be a better word to describe people who simply lack belief.
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From my earlier linked source:

* "Strong Atheist," or "Positive Atheist," or "Hard Atheist" to refer to a person who asserts that no deity exists.

* "Weak Atheist," "Negative Atheist," "Soft Atheist," "Skeptical Atheist" to refer to a person who simply has no belief in a deity because there are no rational grounds that support his/her/their existence.

* Peter Berger suggested that the term "methodological atheism" be used to describe theologians and historians who study religion as a human creation without declaring whether individual religious beliefs are actually true.

* The terms "Noncoherent Atheist" or "Noncoherentism" have been suggested to cover the belief that one cannot have any meaningful discussions about deities, because there exist no coherent definitions of "god."

* "Apathetic Atheism," or "Apatheism" have been suggested to cover the individual who doesn't really care whether Gods or Goddesses exist. They probably live with the assumption that no deity exists.
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LuckyDan said:
Hey! I like Christopher! Yeah, he can be a dickhead. . . but such an erudite one!

Do you then think that a god may exist?
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I have no interest in whether a god exists or not.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I wouldn't want to be called a "softy." Better come up with a cooler name.
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You like basketball. Being called a softy is the least of your problems.

:2razz:
 
Redress said:
I have no interest in whether a god exists or not.
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You lie. I'm sure you care about this one if she exists:

goddess.jpg
 
StillBallin75 said:
One is "I don't believe in God/deities." The other is "I believe in NO God." That's quite a substantial difference.
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Then I'm misunderstanding Mistress and Redress, who seem to be saying, "I don't know and I don't care."

The quote again, with Redress's bold print:

Most of the North American public define an "Atheist" is a person who believes that no deity exists: neither a God, nor a Goddess, nor a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. This definition is reflected in American dictionaries -- not just because most publishers are Christian, but because it is the purpose of dictionaries to follow the public's word usage. Some individuals who consider themselves Atheists mesh well with that definition. But they may be in the minority. Many, perhaps most, Atheists simply have no belief about deity. For them, Atheism is not disbelief in a deity or deities; it is simply a lack of belief in any of them.
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What is the pertinent difference in "lack of belief" and "disbelief?"
 
I don't believe in an individual or personal God. I believe god is the collective conscious and subconscious will. It influences us, does not have a will of its own and is created by all entities living and "dead". I believe life and soul = influence, which goes on forever and ever within the aforementioned matrix of collective will. I believe heaven and hell represent possible futures, to which our influence will go; however, we are surely going to heaven (all together, of course, if one follows the described concept). I don't believe in anything supernatural or magical, at all, in any way.


So, what's that?
 
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