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If

If it was Nazi Germany all over again, America should

  • Butt in

    Votes: 36 73.5%
  • Butt out

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • Specifically ......

    Votes: 6 12.2%
  • No clue

    Votes: 3 6.1%

  • Total voters
    49
This one appears to have been built to hold more than two or three at a time:

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i was talking about the individual ovens, which you have no photo of.you have a photo of a tiny building with a couple of chimneys.
try again.
 
And is someone in this thread really denying the holocaust ever occurred? Read the minutes of the Wansee conference please.

Apparently trying to deny that the Nazis killed as many as we think. See as an example the picture of he "tiny" building I posted, and the response it got.
 
Numbers exaggerated is your claim lew? Really? Explain to me why Poland's Jewish population went from 3.5 million before 1933 to 45k at the end of the war? We know how many people were killed in the Holocaust. Your German buddies kept VERY good records of everything.

Also your claim about people not fitting into the ovens, that was no problem for the Germans. Bodies were broken up very simply after they were gassed, and the human feces was cleaned off the floor, and the next party was led in. The Germans had bone crushers all over these camps incase they didn't fit.
 
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Numbers exaggerated is your claim lew? Really? Explain to me why Poland's Jewish population went from 3.5 million before 1933 to 45k at the end of the war? We know how many people were killed in the Holocaust. Your German buddies kept VERY good records of everything.

Also your claim about people not fitting into the ovens, that was no problem for the Germans. Bodies were broken up very simply after they were gassed, and the human feces was cleaned off the floor, and the next party was led in. The Germans had bone crushers all over these camps incase they didn't fit.

wrong. the russians faked the records. so you're saying no jews fled europe after the nazi rise to power? you're saying no jews got the hell out of europe when instructed to?
you're even more gullible than i thought.
 
The Russians faked the records? Really? Do you have any proof of that? Because scholarly sources have been using them for the past 60+ years and have no issue with them.

Sure, some Jews fled, but the western Allies did not allow vast numbers of Jews to flee from Europe. Please read my other post regarding the Evian conference and Breckenridge Long.

Right, I'm gullible. I guess my college professors from 20 years ago as well as life long study of the holocaust makes me that.
 
well....ummmmm...it takes 2 and 1/2 hours to cremate a single human body. there were 3 ovens at auschwitz designed
to hold 2 people at at time. you do the math, genius.

LOL! Millions were rounded up and killed by the SS outside of the camps...
Thousands upon thousands were used and killed in medical experiments...
Tens of thousands, if not more, died doind slave labor...

I will offer some preliminary numbers and sources. I am confident that you will offer nothing but opinionated tripe in response, but who knows? :)

Auschwitz II-Birkenau, more than 20,000 people could be gassed and cremated each day

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust? How do we know? Do we have their names?

There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million.

The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible. This figure is based primarily on some two million Pages of Testimony, which often contain information about more than one Jew who perished in the Holocaust. As of early June 1999, more than 1.6 million Pages of Testimony have been computerized. In addition, we have thousands of documents containing names from the Holocaust era, many of which are those of victims


What were the Einsatzgruppen and what was their role in the murder of the Jews?

Einsatzgruppen means "task forces." The SS set up such units before they entered Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and the Soviet Union. The task of the Einsatzgruppen in Poland was to terrorize the local population and murder anyone whom the SS deemed undesirable. The most infamous Einsatzgruppen of all were formed before the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. Their primary task was to destroy what they regarded as the ideological infrastructure of the Soviet Union: political commissars, members of the Communist party, and above all, Jews.

Einsatzgruppen advanced into the Soviet Union along with the German army. Wherever they stopped, they collected and shot in cold blood as many Jews as they could find (first Jewish males, and soon thereafter Jewish women and children, as well). They wrote detailed daily reports on their activities, copies of which still exist. According to their own incomplete reports, they killed at least 900,000 Jews and were assisted by other units in the murder of hundreds of thousands more.


The Holocaust - Yad Vashem
 
Correct. The Einsatzgruppen killed roughly 1 million. Unfortunately word got to the Fuhrer that troops were being demoralized by what the Einsatzgruppen were doing, so he ordered Goering to order Heydrich to come up with a solution to that - the camps. The gas vans were just not working, they were too costly, and not enough were being killed. The extermination camps could kill 20-30k a day with ease, and without demoralizing the troops.
 
Also lew you ignored the rest of my post:

An ignored me on the last page said:
Also your claim about people not fitting into the ovens, that was no problem for the Germans. Bodies were broken up very simply after they were gassed, and the human feces was cleaned off the floor, and the next party was led in. The Germans had bone crushers all over these camps incase they didn't fit.
 
LOL! Millions were rounded up and killed by the SS outside of the camps...
Thousands upon thousands were used and killed in medical experiments...
Tens of thousands, if not more, died doind slave labor...

I will offer some preliminary numbers and sources. I am confident that you will offer nothing but opinionated tripe in response, but who knows? :)

Auschwitz II-Birkenau, more than 20,000 people could be gassed and cremated each day

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust? How do we know? Do we have their names?

There is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. The figure commonly used is the six million quoted by Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official. Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million. Early calculations range from 5.1 million (Professor Raul Hilberg) to 5.95 million (Jacob Leschinsky). More recent research, by Professor Yisrael Gutman and Dr. Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, estimates the Jewish losses at 5.59–5.86 million, and a study headed by Dr. Wolfgang Benz presents a range from 5.29 million to six million.

The main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar censuses with postwar censuses and population estimates. Nazi documentation containing partial data on various deportations and murders is also used. We estimate that Yad Vashem currently has somewhat more than four million names of victims that are accessible. This figure is based primarily on some two million Pages of Testimony, which often contain information about more than one Jew who perished in the Holocaust. As of early June 1999, more than 1.6 million Pages of Testimony have been computerized. In addition, we have thousands of documents containing names from the Holocaust era, many of which are those of victims


What were the Einsatzgruppen and what was their role in the murder of the Jews?

Einsatzgruppen means "task forces." The SS set up such units before they entered Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and the Soviet Union. The task of the Einsatzgruppen in Poland was to terrorize the local population and murder anyone whom the SS deemed undesirable. The most infamous Einsatzgruppen of all were formed before the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. Their primary task was to destroy what they regarded as the ideological infrastructure of the Soviet Union: political commissars, members of the Communist party, and above all, Jews.

Einsatzgruppen advanced into the Soviet Union along with the German army. Wherever they stopped, they collected and shot in cold blood as many Jews as they could find (first Jewish males, and soon thereafter Jewish women and children, as well). They wrote detailed daily reports on their activities, copies of which still exist. According to their own incomplete reports, they killed at least 900,000 Jews and were assisted by other units in the murder of hundreds of thousands more.


The Holocaust - Yad Vashem

lol. are you serious? so i'm to believe a jewish holocaust blog on this?
you all seem to be missing the real point........which is russia itself and the allied
powers. how many jews did stalin kill in his pograms? and america herself was
hardly a jew-embracing nation during the early to mid 20th century. the victor
of any war writes the history of the war...any sane person understands this.
WWII is no different than the american civil war in this regard. there are many stupid
people in america whom actually believe that the civil war was about slavery and civil rights. of course, anyone doing any research at all on the matter knows different.
it was rewritten for our history books to convince future generations it was about such a noble cause, even though lincoln himself was probably more of a white supremacist than jefferson davis.
the same thing applies here. stalin was slaughtering jews and gypsies all over russia.
it took a number like 6 million to demonize hitler over stalin. that's what the whole thing amounted to. the allies had to cover stalins ass for being every bit the monster adolf hitler was.
 
You really have absolutely no proof of these claims of revisionism, other than the correct statement about the Pogroms as well as anti semitisim by Americans. The western allies didn't give a flying **** about the Jews that were dying.

ALso you keep ignoring my point that I keep quoting.
 
lol. are you serious? so i'm to believe a jewish holocaust blog on this?
you all seem to be missing the real point........which is russia itself and the allied
powers. how many jews did stalin kill in his pograms? and america herself was
hardly a jew-embracing nation during the early to mid 20th century. the victor
of any war writes the history of the war...any sane person understands this.
WWII is no different than the american civil war in this regard. there are many stupid
people in america whom actually believe that the civil war was about slavery and civil rights. of course, anyone doing any research at all on the matter knows different.
it was rewritten for our history books to convince future generations it was about such a noble cause, even though lincoln himself was probably more of a white supremacist than jefferson davis.
the same thing applies here. stalin was slaughtering jews and gypsies all over russia.
it took a number like 6 million to demonize hitler over stalin. that's what the whole thing amounted to. the allies had to cover stalins ass for being every bit the monster adolf hitler was.

So no evidence. No proof. Gotchya.

I posted more than that one site, and you have ignored it. You are ignoring the mass executions and medical expirements and the fact that there were more ovens than you let on, as well as quotes from SS officers and population census's. Good for you. You countered EXACTLY as I thought you would, with nothing but opinion.

Well, you lost this debate, not that you think so... no matter. Anything else or is that the best that you can do? My 7 year-old daughter could beat you in a debate. LOL! Seriously... this is just the beginning and you can't even hack this. Aight homey... lates
 
wrong. the russians faked the records. so you're saying no jews fled europe after the nazi rise to power? you're saying no jews got the hell out of europe when instructed to?
you're even more gullible than i thought.

Did someone claim that all the Jews were cremated or is everyone ignoring that there are more ways to kill someone than to burn them?
 
Did someone claim that all the Jews were cremated or is everyone ignoring that there are more ways to kill someone than to burn them?

I have repeatedly stated this, even providing video evidence. He just ignores it... :)
 
i never said any of that. i already acknowledged there WAS a holocaust. all i stated was that the
numbers were exaggerated.
the number of people killed in the holocaust was too many.

5 million, 5.5 million, 6 million, does it really change anything? the loss of lives was significant.
 
lol. are you serious? so i'm to believe a jewish holocaust blog on this?

Yad Vashem is not "a jewish holocaust blog." Have you actually checked the site?

I know you will try and say that wasn't the link you were referring to in the same way that you were the one who raised the issue of numbers of exterminations at the death camps and then being slippery about whether you mean all the nazi facilities or just Auschwitz / Birkenau for where all the 6 million died.

-- you all seem to be missing the real point........

I think we know the point when we read your posts on this issue.
 
Did someone claim that all the Jews were cremated or is everyone ignoring that there are more ways to kill someone than to burn them?

the only mass graves of jews killed by the nazis were found in romania. the body tally was about 100.
there was also a mass grave in ukraine found which some have attributed to the nazis. this held
a couple thousand, but was more than likely stalins.
once again, you bring zero proof and lies.
 
the only mass graves of jews killed by the nazis were found in romania. the body tally was about 100.
there was also a mass grave in ukraine found which some have attributed to the nazis. this held
a couple thousand, but was more than likely stalins.
once again, you bring zero proof and lies.

That is so incredibly wrong. We've seen mass graves in much larger numbers than that. Also explain to me the photos of mass graves from the Einsatzgruppen, before they were ordered to destroy the evidence.
 
That is so incredibly wrong. We've seen mass graves in much larger numbers than that. Also explain to me the photos of mass graves from the Einsatzgruppen, before they were ordered to destroy the evidence.

i mentioned the ukraine, didn't i? those are the graves you're referring to. the ones in russia. sorry.....but i don't buy into
the nonsense that those were hitlers.
 
i mentioned the ukraine, didn't i? those are the graves you're referring to. the ones in russia. sorry.....but i don't buy into
the nonsense that those were hitlers.

How many Jews were murdered in each country and what percentage of the pre-war Jewish population did they constitute?


Answer: (Source: Encyclopedia of the Holocaust)
Austria 50,000 -- 27.0%
Italy 7,680 -- 17.3%
Belgium 28,900 -- 44.0%
Latvia 71,500 -- 78.1%
Bohemia/Moravia 78,150 -- 66.1%
Lithuania 143,000 -- 85.1%
Bulgaria 0 -- 0.0%
Luxembourg 1,950 -- 55.7%
Denmark 60 -- 0.7%
Netherlands 100,000 -- 71.4%
Estonia 2,000 -- 44.4%
Norway 762 -- 44.8%
Finland 7 -- 0.3%
Poland 3,000,000 -- 90.9%
France 77,320 -- 22.1%
Romania 287,000 -- 47.1%
Germany 141,500 -- 25.0%
Slovakia 71,000 -- 79.8%
Greece 67,000 -- 86.6%
Soviet Union 1,100,000 -- 36.4%
Hungary 569,000 -- 69.0%
Yugoslavia 63,300 -- 81.2%

That total is 5,860,129


36 Questions About the Holocaust (1-18)

Seeing as how the vast majority of people believe the numbers of the slain in the Holocaust, you have the burden of proof, so show me PROOF that the numbers are smaller than said.
 
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That total is 5,860,129


36 Questions About the Holocaust (1-18)

Seeing as how the vast majority of people believe the numbers of the slain in the Holocaust, you have the burden of proof, so show me PROOF that the numbers are smaller than said.

my proof is the impossibility of it. as history has been revised to suit the victor.....that being stalinist russia......then
all actual facts have been publicly modified. kind of like with the american civil war and every other war in history.
you all can believe the nonsense propagated through revisionist history though. that's your own naivety. but the FACT
remains....the only evidence that 6 million jews were killed during the holocaust is on paper, written by the allied historians.
you have no proof yourself of anything. all you have are the stylized interpretations of those who were able to define
the end of the war however they wished.
 
my proof is the impossibility of it. as history has been revised to suit the victor.....that being stalinist russia......then
all actual facts have been publicly modified. kind of like with the american civil war and every other war in history.
you all can believe the nonsense propagated through revisionist history though. that's your own naivety. but the FACT
remains....the only evidence that 6 million jews were killed during the holocaust is on paper, written by the allied historians.
you have no proof yourself of anything. all you have are the stylized interpretations of those who were able to define
the end of the war however they wished.

There is nothing impossible about it. There have been multiple people provide multiple sources and multiple links to back their point when you haven't provided **** except for your self-indulged ignorance and I am done wasting my time on someone who refuses to see the truth for what it is.
 
There is nothing impossible about it. There have been multiple people provide multiple sources and multiple links to back their point when you haven't provided **** except for your self-indulged ignorance and I am done wasting my time on someone who refuses to see the truth for what it is.

yeah. i've had a couple jewish holocaust blogs thrown up, and then a revisionist encyclopedia interpretation.
my "proof" is every bit as valid as the links provided. your free to ignore my proof as i will definitely ignore your
gullibility in believing everything you're been spoonfed by propagandists.
 
i mentioned the ukraine, didn't i? those are the graves you're referring to. the ones in russia. sorry.....but i don't buy into
the nonsense that those were hitlers.

Were they Hitler's? No. They weren't. Hitler's complicity in the holocaust is, well, very vague. There is no explicit proof he ordered the camps, other than asking Goering to come up with a solution. There is only a quote from him ordering Jews along the way in the eastern front to be "executed as partisans". There are notes of him meeting with Himmler regarding the solution, so of course he knew about the camps. His daily activities during the war were really military policy though. In terms of anti semitism in the nazi leadership we saw it much more prevalent in Goebbels and Himmler than Hitler himself. Goering wasn't even an anti semite.

As for history being written by the victor, that is absolute garbage my friend. Absolute and total garbage. The German advance made it very far into Russia, and the Einsatzgruppen killed roughly 1 million along the way. Lew, the nazis kept VERY good records. Reports were sent back and fourth from SS commanders to the civilian leadership about how many were killed and in which exact area. We have so much evidence of the holocaust it's ridiculous, and most of that evidence is from German sources. Not the soviets.
 
Were they Hitler's? No. They weren't. Hitler's complicity in the holocaust is, well, very vague. There is no explicit proof he ordered the camps, other than asking Goering to come up with a solution. There is only a quote from him ordering Jews along the way in the eastern front to be "executed as partisans". There are notes of him meeting with Himmler regarding the solution, so of course he knew about the camps. His daily activities during the war were really military policy though. In terms of anti semitism in the nazi leadership we saw it much more prevalent in Goebbels and Himmler than Hitler himself. Goering wasn't even an anti semite.

As for history being written by the victor, that is absolute garbage my friend. Absolute and total garbage. The German advance made it very far into Russia, and the Einsatzgruppen killed roughly 1 million along the way. Lew, the nazis kept VERY good records. Reports were sent back and fourth from SS commanders to the civilian leadership about how many were killed and in which exact area. We have so much evidence of the holocaust it's ridiculous, and most of that evidence is from German sources. Not the soviets.

i have a book called "the holocaust" written by nora levin. it's not a holocaust denial book, obviously written by a jew whom
lived through those times. it has some horrible details and photos, regarding the nazis. but she makes one point in this
book that i had never heard before, but you just kind of said the same thing. she makes the point in one chapter that
the holocaust had very little to do with hitler, it was more himmler. the book asserts that hitler actually drew up a paper
granting hundreds of thousands of jews amnesty, but himmler ignored it.
i just found that interesting. anyway....gotta go to work.
 
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