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I want to see the President fail

I want to see President Obama fail


  • Total voters
    46
A better analogy is this:

You know that covering yourself in pollen will attract bees. Your friend wants to cover herself in pollen because she thinks the bees will respond "peacefully", collecting pollen from her without stinging. You hope she fails in her experiment, because you feel confidently that it will end badly. People confident that Obama's policies will end badly are perfectly logical in hoping those policies fail. The illogical stance is to hope for success blindly, despite evidence that a policy will be largely negative.

no this is called dramatic bias and appeal to emotion. We arent talking about your OPINION of policies.
Your mind is already made up that you dont like the policies (I dont like some of them) so you hope they fail so you root for him to fail, well thats dumb becuase if they fail we all fail.

The QB/Coach is the more accurat analogy because its void of bias and its Objective.

If we new what actually worked we would all just do it, funny no president congress etc etc has figured it out? LOL

The goal is for AMERICA to win, Ill NEVER root against that because it makes no sense. Will i disagree on how we COULD win, of course but to root against him is to root against winning, no thanks, ill never od that to any president.

Basically if I believed in things 1,2, and 3 and the president believed in things 4,5 and 6 I might not like it but what if 4,5,and 6 gets us the win? Then I am HAPPY because WE WON lol

Of I guess I could just hope for the worse, root against us winning and assume that my way is the only way forget the rest of america.
 
His policy is not open borders, but to actually try to get congress to do real reform such as expanding legal entry, guest worker program, increased border security, etc.

I have a question.

If illegal entry into this country is not illegal...
DNC Chair: Republicans Believe Illegal Immigration 'Should be a Crime' | CNSnews.com
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D.-Fla.) said:
“We have 12 million undocumented immigrants in this country that are part of the backbone of our economy and this is not only a reality but a necessity," she said. "And that it would be harmful--the Republican solution that I’ve seen in the last three years is that we should just pack them all up and ship them back to their own countries and that in fact it should be a crime and we should arrested them all.”

... then why do we NEED border security?
 
And if that's not how you act? Then I'm not talking to you.

BD, you're on a Political board.

Not a board for a TV show. Not a cooking board. Not a board about knitting. Not a Twilight fan board. Not a Tom Clancy fan board. Not a sports fan board. Not a vehicle fan board. Not a hobby board. Not a religion board.

You're on a political board.

If you're going to get heavily worked up over people acting partisan, not even hugely overly partisan but just basicly partisan, on a political board then there's expectations there that don't match up with where you're posting. Unemployment news shows up in the political section of newspapers routinely for a reason...because its a significant political issue. People bring it up everytime it comes out because its a significant political issue. And as is typical with significant political issues, people speak their mind and views about it.

People may seem "happy" because unemployment numbers come back bad, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're literally happy that people are out of work. Your narrow view point here is based singularly off of your desire to scold people. Could they not be happy that their previous suggestions about the individuals policies, or their individual predictions, came out correct? Could they not be happy because they feel the policies we have are bad and will continue to cause damage, and the only way that things will change is for it to get worse before it gets better?

You're complaining about something that is the very basic nature of politics...people being happy about things that vindicate their points and bothered by things that go against it.
 
That would be very anti American to want the President to fail. If he is a success than his agenda is not bad for America. If he fails you may be correct but to hope for that is blatantly anti American

I don't know about that, I kind of want him to fail. :lol: I don't like his approach to solving problems.
 
A better analogy is this:

You know that covering yourself in pollen will attract bees. Your friend wants to cover herself in pollen because she thinks the bees will respond "peacefully", collecting pollen from her without stinging. You hope she fails in her experiment, because you feel confidently that it will end badly. People confident that Obama's policies will end badly are perfectly logical in hoping those policies fail. The illogical stance is to hope for success blindly, despite evidence that a policy will be largely negative.

Also just to really address your analogy, no I hope it works for my friend that way she didnt get stung LO

If I had your "logic" for eveything we would still be in the dark ages.
no planes, earth is still flat, no open heart surgery etc etc

I hope the next person that wants success fails because its not MY idea of success

sorry thats illogical. Thats not american.
 
If they dont work they dont work, didnt say you have to AGREE with them or support them
But wanting him to fail is illogical unless his goal is honestly to hurt the US which it is not.

You are having to excessively distort the point. If someone is doing something that you believe will make you worse, you do not just sit on your ass, have things end up worse, and shrug "well, at least we tried". That is being stupid.

Your OPINION on whether a presidents ideas are good or bad are no more valuable then anyone else but you still root for success.

I root for a different plan, not for one where I know its result makes us worse. My opinions are very valuable to me, btw.

To dumb it down as simple as possible, youre on a football team, coach and QB deiced a QB sneak is what we are going to run, do you hope the coach and QB fail just because you wanted a pass play? of course not lol

You can verbally disagree
You can hope/vote for a new president / QB
but you always root for your own team because their decisions were made because they wanted to WIN, they were trying to loose.

Football ? Yeah, that is dumb. Why such a struggle in realizing that God gave you a brain, and that combined with experience, some wisdom is expected ?
Its pretty simple actually, dont confuse disagreeing or wanting things done differently with hope he fails.
You realize if he fails WE ALL LOSE because then no progress is made for 4 years.

Just like the QB if he doesnt score what good is that? You still want him to score because it means WE ALL win.

Whether Obama has good intentions or not matters not a twit. If someone has a plan, that being a succession of steps, that you believe will end up making you and your family worse off, you don't just sign up and hope for the better.

I choose to not be a lemming.
 
Also just to really address your analogy, no I hope it works for my friend that way she didnt get stung LO

If I had your "logic" for eveything we would still be in the dark ages.
no planes, earth is still flat, no open heart surgery etc etc

I hope the next person that wants success fails because its not MY idea of success

sorry thats illogical. Thats not american.

except of course, in the case that the person in question's version of "success" is a matter of your country being destroyed;
and replaced with something "unAmerican". it seems you're the one having more the problem with logic. every policy and
executive order this man has initiated has been destructive to this nation. this clown is george bush times 10. and you
want people to wish him success on his initiatives? sorry. but wishing this man success IS unAmerican.
 
no this is called dramatic bias and appeal to emotion. We arent talking about your OPINION of policies.
Your mind is already made up that you dont like the policies (I dont like some of them) so you hope they fail so you root for him to fail, well thats dumb becuase if they fail we all fail.

The QB/Coach is the more accurat analogy because its void of bias and its Objective.

If we new what actually worked we would all just do it, funny no president congress etc etc has figured it out? LOL

The goal is for AMERICA to win, Ill NEVER root against that because it makes no sense. Will i disagree on how we COULD win, of course but to root against him is to root against winning, no thanks, ill never od that to any president.

Basically if I believed in things 1,2, and 3 and the president believed in things 4,5 and 6 I might not like it but what if 4,5,and 6 gets us the win? Then I am HAPPY because WE WON lol

Of I guess I could just hope for the worse, root against us winning and assume that my way is the only way forget the rest of america.

If bad policies are enacted, the country loses.
If bad policies are not enacted, the country does not necessarily lose,and will probably win.
If good policies are enacted, the country wins.
If good polices are not enacted, the country will probably lose.

So if, based on the available evidence, one feels that a policy is "bad", they would want that policy to fail in being enacted to prevent an almost guaranteed negative affect on the country. Based on available evidence, many of us felt that Obama's policies (which, by the way, are opinions...not sure why you're emphasizing opinion as if this debate is anything else) were bad and would have a detrimental affect. So we want those policies to fail to be enacted, which, by proxy, means we want Obama to fail.

The success of a president isn't directly linked to the success of America. Bush was very successful in getting many of his policies enacted. Would you say the country succeeded because of it? Clinton was very successful in his cuts to intelligence and his moves to separate the operations of the CIA and FBI. Given that intelligence breakdowns were a key component of the 911 attacks, would you say Clinton's success led to America's success?

My analogy was in no way an emotional appeal. It was a a tongue-in-cheek analogy of the Obama failure/America failure discussion.

As far as "everybody knowing what's right", well...that just isn't possible. We debate daily on what is right, what is wrong, what is best, what is worst. We use evidence from history and wisdom to make the best choice. Because nobody is identical to anybody else, there will always be disagreement on which path is best, which programs are most important, what program will be most successful. It is silly to assume that there would ever be 1 "correct" answer or methodology. That doesn't mean we can't feel as though our methodology is the best, based on evidence. Obama thinks his methodology is best, even though history doesn't lend to that belief and most of his ideas were widely untests in the American system. Others thought his methodology was bad, based on what has and hasn't worked before, and based on projecetions made on untested ideas.
 
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tessy, you are wasting your time, my friend :)
 
Also just to really address your analogy, no I hope it works for my friend that way she didnt get stung LO

If I had your "logic" for eveything we would still be in the dark ages.
no planes, earth is still flat, no open heart surgery etc etc

I hope the next person that wants success fails because its not MY idea of success

sorry thats illogical. Thats not american.

Hyperbole much? :roll:
 
.......... The QB/Coach is the more accurat analogy because its void of bias and its Objective.

BS. That is just a game. You are not materially worse off because you lost. You can quit the team if it so bothers you. Others can actually root against you, so that your team fails, likely because they want the other team to win, and its no big deal. Need I go on pointing out the fail of your analogy ?

If we new what actually worked we would all just do it, funny no president congress etc etc has figured it out? LOL

Strawman. This is about whether or not Obama's "success" makes things worse in the opinion of many of us. It is that simple.

The goal is for AMERICA to win, Ill NEVER root against that because it makes no sense. Will i disagree on how we COULD win, of course but to root against him is to root against winning, no thanks, ill never od that to any president.

Basically if I believed in things 1,2, and 3 and the president believed in things 4,5 and 6 I might not like it but what if 4,5,and 6 gets us the win? Then I am HAPPY because WE WON lol

Of I guess I could just hope for the worse, root against us winning and assume that my way is the only way forget the rest of america.

I want Obama to be a one-term President as well. That would be more fail for him. :)
 
American said:
Hyperbole much?

yeah. that and "lol"ing as if derision made up for lack of logic. I tend to think of it as the "14 year old girl who watches jersey shore" debate method.

Tessy said:
I had my coffee this morning, though. I'm fired up, man!

:lol: go get'em, tiger.
 
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tessy, you are wasting your time, my friend :)

Why? I'd rather read one well-considered and -written post than all the rest of the thread combined.
 
i believe the president's agenda is bad for America and thus I wish to see him fail in implementing it. i believe that said agenda will not magically become better for America on January 20th 2013, and thus I wish to see him fail in his reelection bid, so that we can put into place policies that would be better for America. I will thus highlight his (past tense) failures so as to continue to argue that continuing to engage in the same foolish policies and hoping for better results would be a poor decision on our part. because I want better policies for America.

which is sort of the opposite of what you seem to be suggesting.

Well you know what? If you're not with us, you're against us. Thanks for hating America.

HAHAHAH. I love this Republican propaganda, it's fun ****.
 
yeah. that and "lol"ing as if derision made up for lack of logic. I tend to think of it as the "14 year old girl who watches jersey shore" debate method.



:lol: go get'em, tiger.

I think the most interesting point is that it's "UnAmerican" to hope for a failure in policies that would be detrimental to the country.
 
You are having to excessively distort the point. If someone is doing something that you believe will make you worse, you do not just sit on your ass, have things end up worse, and shrug "well, at least we tried". That is being stupid.



I root for a different plan, not for one where I know its result makes us worse. My opinions are very valuable to me, btw.



Football ? Yeah, that is dumb. Why such a struggle in realizing that God gave you a brain, and that combined with experience, some wisdom is expected ?


Whether Obama has good intentions or not matters not a twit. If someone has a plan, that being a succession of steps, that you believe will end up making you and your family worse off, you don't just sign up and hope for the better.

I choose to not be a lemming.

if you say so but we are talking about the president of our country, last I checked nobobdy knows how to run our government perfectly so rooting for YOUR OPINION of what will fail is rooting for AMERICA to fail LOL

You are in fact being a lemming, a partisan one.
The problem is you are speaking in absolutes when there are none, we survied 4-8 years of other presidents that people thought sucked and DID do damage I still didnt root for them to lose, I rooted for them to change or to compromise NOT TO LOSE because their lose is my loss and Im not dumb enough to think in absolutes in situations there arent any in.

Like I said if everybody shared your logic the earth would still be flat and we'd be living in the dark ages.
 
except of course, in the case that the person in question's version of "success" is a matter of your country being destroyed;
and replaced with something "unAmerican". it seems you're the one having more the problem with logic. every policy and
executive order this man has initiated has been destructive to this nation. this clown is george bush times 10. and you
want people to wish him success on his initiatives? sorry. but wishing this man success IS unAmerican.

nope no dramatic hyperbole partisan here ;)
 
if you say so but we are talking about the president of our country, last I checked nobobdy knows how to run our government perfectly so rooting for YOUR OPINION of what will fail is rooting for AMERICA to fail LOL

You are in fact being a lemming, a partisan one.
The problem is you are speaking in absolutes when there are none, we survied 4-8 years of other presidents that people thought sucked and DID do damage I still didnt root for them to lose, I rooted for them to change or to compromise NOT TO LOSE because their lose is my loss and Im not dumb enough to think in absolutes in situations there arent any in.
Like I said if everybody shared your logic the earth would still be flat and we'd be living in the dark ages.

You do realize that saying "his failure is our failure" is an absolute statement, right? Also, so is "rooting for YOUR OPINION of what will fail is rooting for AMERICA to fail"
 
I think the most interesting point is that it's "UnAmerican" to hope for a failure in policies that would be detrimental to the country.
That's not what this thread is about, although it's nice to you turn the point around in order to make yourself look better. The thread is about those who want policies to fail in helping the country.
 
If bad policies are enacted, the country loses.
If bad policies are not enacted, the country does not necessarily lose,and will probably win.
If good policies are enacted, the country wins.
If good polices are not enacted, the country will probably lose.

So if, based on the available evidence, one feels that a policy is "bad", they would want that policy to fail in being enacted to prevent an almost guaranteed negative affect on the country. Based on available evidence, many of us felt that Obama's policies (which, by the way, are opinions...not sure why you're emphasizing opinion as if this debate is anything else) were bad and would have a detrimental affect. So we want those policies to fail to be enacted, which, by proxy, means we want Obama to fail.

The success of a president isn't directly linked to the success of America. Bush was very successful in getting many of his policies enacted. Would you say the country succeeded because of it? Clinton was very successful in his cuts to intelligence and his moves to separate the operations of the CIA and FBI. Given that intelligence breakdowns were a key component of the 911 attacks, would you say Clinton's success led to America's success?

My analogy was in no way an emotional appeal. It was a a tongue-in-cheek analogy of the Obama failure/America failure discussion.

As far as "everybody knowing what's right", well...that just isn't possible. We debate daily on what is right, what is wrong, what is best, what is worst. We use evidence from history and wisdom to make the best choice. Because nobody is identical to anybody else, there will always be disagreement on which path is best, which programs are most important, what program will be most successful. It is silly to assume that there would ever be 1 "correct" answer or methodology. That doesn't mean we can't feel as though our methodology is the best, based on evidence. Obama thinks his methodology is best, even though history doesn't lend to that belief and most of his ideas were widely untests in the American system. Others thought his methodology was bad, based on what has and hasn't worked before, and based on projecetions made on untested ideas.

all based on your opinion that nobody is arguing. Did I say bad policies will make us win? of ocurse not
but they are only bad if they fail LOL so no matter if I think they are bad I want them to have success because its better for america. SImple common sense

I root for EVERY president to have success, ALL OF THEM
 
You do realize that saying "his failure is our failure" is an absolute statement, right? Also, so is "rooting for YOUR OPINION of what will fail is rooting for AMERICA to fail"
It's true - if he fails at helping the country, the it's our failure as well.
 
Why? I'd rather read one well-considered and -written post than all the rest of the thread combined.

not in her writing - Tessy is a solid, thoughtful poster, not unlike yourself - rather in thinking that she was going to get anything of comparative quality back.


centrist said:
if you say so but we are talking about the president of our country, last I checked nobobdy knows how to run our government perfectly so rooting for YOUR OPINION of what will fail is rooting for AMERICA to fail LOL

You are in fact being a lemming, a partisan one...

see what I mean?
 
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