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Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

Which poison would you pick?

  • Total voters
    44
atrasicarius said:
Again: The "choice" being offered is work or starve. How is that different from the choice of work or be shot offered in a place like the Soviet Union?
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Vastly. Vastly different.
 
sookster said:
First don't worry, I won't be in power in a long time if at all. I am only 23.

Second, I don't think, I know, that a system like this, or some other system besides the one we are living in, would drastically improve the life of most of the people on the planet. Sure, there would be some where their standards of living would decrease, but it is very selfish to keep the world the way it is for the minority.
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No, selfish is requiring the entire planet to conform to your idea of perfect.
 
First off, it isn't my idea. It is The Venus Project's idea, which has thousands of members. I am just being the messenger here.

Second, I don't care what the system is, as long as it improves the lives of the majority of the people on this planet.
 
sookster said:
First off, it isn't my idea. It is The Venus Project's idea, which has thousands of members. I am just being the messenger here.

Second, I don't care what the system is, as long as it improves the lives of the majority of the people on this planet.
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First, you are touting it, so it becomes your idea. You support it, you own it.

Second, you think the system is better for other people and would implement it with out regard for their opinion. That is selfish.
 
ksu_aviator said:
Vastly. Vastly different.
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You're gonna have to do better than that. If there's a difference, I'm sure not seeing it. The only reason you don't see that happening in our society is because of the social safety net you despise so much.
 
atrasicarius said:
You're gonna have to do better than that. If there's a difference, I'm sure not seeing it. The only reason you don't see that happening in our society is because of the social safety net you despise so much.
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It doesn't matter what I say, you choose not to see the difference. I said it before, and I stand by it: " Life is full of choices, rewards and consequences. Take away the consequences, the rewards and choices loose all meaning. Take the meaning from choices and rewards and freedom is lost. Without freedom, what's the point of life? To serve a government? I'd rather live and fail than live and serve."
 
I don't think, I know.

I know that a society that would be able to provide the necessities of life to every human on the planet, is better than what we got. I know that a society that promotes selflessness, and sacrifice for the community as a whole is better than what we got. A society that puts "we" in front of "I" is much better than what we got.
 
sookster said:
I don't think, I know.
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I don't think you know either.

I know that a society that would be able to provide the necessities of life to every human on the planet, is better than what we got. I know that a society that promotes selflessness, and sacrifice for the community as a whole is better than what we got. A society that puts "we" in front of "I" is much better than what we got.
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What you know is that platitudes sound great..but you have no earthly idea how to implement them. All I've seen from you is bumper stickers.
 
ksu_aviator said:
It doesn't matter what I say, you choose not to see the difference. I said it before, and I stand by it: " Life is full of choices, rewards and consequences. Take away the consequences, the rewards and choices loose all meaning. Take the meaning from choices and rewards and freedom is lost. Without freedom, what's the point of life? To serve a government? I'd rather live and fail than live and serve."
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You still refuse to address my point. If you can't show how there's a difference in reality, there's no reason for me to think it exists outside your mind.
 
One way would be to take the strategy of The Venus Project. Wait for our financial system to completely crash, which it will, and use that opportunity to introduce the ideas of The Venus Project. If you haven't already, you should probably browse through that website. They even have programmers on their team working on the various computer programs they will need for their society at this present time. Basically, they are devoting their professional lives to a world better for human civilization as a whole.

Another way is by force. Maybe something happens and the population decide to take matters in their own hands and use the second amendment to its full potential. Overthrow the people in power, and then start implementing the ideas of The Venus Project.

Or somebody in The Venus Project obtains a seat in power, and slowly moves civilization towards that direction.

The Venus Project literally has a lot of it already thought out. What they need is the resources to back it up. Before you start throwing arguments back at me, I would actually suggest reading what The Venus Project has already done and thought out.
 
Wake said:
If you had to live under any of these three ideologies, which would it be? This question I've been wondering ever since I read a quote in Viktyr Korimir's sig.

Supposedly communism has killed many.

Supposedly capitalism has killed many.

And, supposedly, socialism has killed many.

What is the better option? Do you know of a better ideology that won't have any blood splattered onto it?

Are any of these options even worth being considered?

As to Communism and Capitalism, as a quote from, if I recall, Viktyr Korimir:

"Communism is forced equality. Capitalism is forced inequality. I've picked my poison."

You may think him wrong, but he does have a point.
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Capitalism - because it gives you more opportunity. Socialism puts you into a box, and you're not allowed to get rich. Socialism robs you of your ambition and freedom. It's oppressive.
 
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ksu_aviator is under the incredibly naive opinion that good choices provide rewards and bad ones negative consequences. Anyone that has lived in the real world for a short while knows this is not the case, so there really isn't any point debating him on this matter, as he is clearly divorced from reality.
 
Why do you say I am divorced from reality?
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I said ksu_aviator, not you, though The Venus Project is incredibly silly:

Wait for our financial system to completely crash, which it will, and use that opportunity to introduce the ideas of The Venus Project.
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This isn't how revolutions happen.

Another way is by force. Maybe something happens and the population decide to take matters in their own hands and use the second amendment to its full potential. Overthrow the people in power, and then start implementing the ideas of The Venus Project.
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The only viable program for a revolutionary movement is socialism, not some quasi-technocratic muck like The Venus Project.

Or somebody in The Venus Project obtains a seat in power, and slowly moves civilization towards that direction.
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Capitalism cannot be overthrown by the ballot box.
 
My apologies about the misunderstanding.

I disagree. But I will leave it at that, as I want to start debating other topics.
 
ksu_aviator said:
LOL...oh this ought to be good...how?
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It's really easy. Just stop making things about personal profit. If the rewards of industry and progress didn't pour into the pockets of the few wealthiest among us (those who least need it) and went back into benefiting society as a whole... The most exceptional individuals can still attain greatness, they just can't screw everyone else in order to do it. Imagine that, a system where cheating, lying, and stealing actually weren't the best means to get ahead.
 
Paschendale said:
It's really easy. Just stop making things about personal profit. If the rewards of industry and progress didn't pour into the pockets of the few wealthiest among us (those who least need it) and went back into benefiting society as a whole... The most exceptional individuals can still attain greatness, they just can't screw everyone else in order to do it. Imagine that, a system where cheating, lying, and stealing actually weren't the best means to get ahead.
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Human nature, my friend. Human nature.
 
Pure capitalism ensures a poverty stricken lower class and a very wealthy upper class that is a tiny percent of the population. Pure socialism ensures an equally shared poverty. The best form is somewhere in between. In my opinion it lies more so towards capitalism, but certain regulations should be created and put in place.
 
I am often puzzled by the fact that so many of the passionate critics of socialism have such a poor understanding of it.
 
The Baron said:
"If those who have not can't otherwise help themselves yes." - Juiposa

Oh, do tell!

1. How are you going to distinguish between those who are unable to do for themselves and the bums?

2. Who in the cornbread-hell do you think you are to tell someone else that they must give-up what they have earned so that it may be redistributed to someone else?
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mmmmm.... now i want cornbread.
 
NGNM85 said:
I am often puzzled by the fact that so many of the passionate critics of socialism have such a poor understanding of it.
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This is seemingly true.
 
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