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Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

Incandescent Light bulb ban.... do you care?

  • I care! The ban is foolish! I want my incandescent bulbs!

    Votes: 13 23.6%

  • I like the ban! Bring on new lighting technology!

    Votes: 17 30.9%

  • I dont care either way!

    Votes: 10 18.2%

  • I like incandescent bulbs and fluorescent ones. But dont make a law about them!

    Votes: 11 20.0%

  • OTHER / I dont know / Chimichanga

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • Total voters
    55
Redress said:
In point of fact, they can refill the shelves with new incandescent light bulbs, as both the link I provided, and the links you provided make clear.

Go, read the stuff quoted in this thread, notice how they all agree on one point, that incandescent bulbs are not banned.
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Can one recognize the onset of tyranny when one sees it?
Strictly speaking, it’s also true that the rules are neither mandates nor bans. They’re standards: We don’t tell you how to reduce the amount of energy your light bulb consumes. We just tell you that it can’t use more than a certain amount.
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It is time to clean out the stables.
 
Henrin said:
Changing the standards might as well ban the product. It can't be sold without being against the law. I would call that effectively a ban.
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Seriously, read the sources. They can now make incandescent bulbs that conform to the standards. The technology(interesting side note) was perfected based on lighting used for reef aquariums, where they needed high intensity bulbs that put out less heat. IN point of fact, you can buy the new incandescent bulbs at Home Depot that conform to the standard.
 
Misterveritis said:
Can one recognize the onset of tyranny when one sees it?

It is time to clean out the stables.
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So standards for lightbulbs is the beginning of tyranny. Good thing that standards for cars wasn't anything like standards for bulbs, or we would be in a tyranny already. And those furnaces, the standards for those are completely different, and it's a good thing, kept us safe from tyranny. And standards for houses. That has to be different or tyranny would have arrived decades ago. And standards for cell phones, and standards for...well, you get the idea.
 
Redress said:
So standards for lightbulbs is the beginning of tyranny. Good thing that standards for cars wasn't anything like standards for bulbs, or we would be in a tyranny already.
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Great. let's add even more examples. I applaud you.
Redress said:
And those furnaces, the standards for those are completely different, and it's a good thing, kept us safe from tyranny.
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If there is industrial buy-in for a standard that allows for interoperability and moves us away from proprietary systems the market has shown that to be a good thing. When politicians sit around a table and decide a car ought to get 60 MPG people end up dying needlessly. One make sense. The other is clearly tyranny.
Redress said:
And standards for houses. That has to be different or tyranny would have arrived decades ago. And standards for cell phones, and standards for...well, you get the idea.
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I do. Did government select the winners and losers? When government does then it is tyrannical. This is hard. This requires wisdom.
Building codes based on engineering tend to be good. Building codes created by busybodies are tyranny.

From a personal example: when I built my house, for my wife and I, we have a very nice back deck that runs all 55 feet of the width of our house. On one side we had three stairs going down but no hand rail. One one side we have a retaining wall and on the other side we have the house. The bureaucrat that came out said I had to have hand rails. We put them in to occupy and took them out because they are not necessary. Next point. I have a dual set of retaining walls uphill from my garage. I told the county bureaucrat that the landscaping would fill that space with hard to penetrate bushes. He insisted that I put up a fence to keep children from falling off. There are no children. Mine are 30 and 27. They do not live with me. But before I could move in I had to damage the nice brickwork to put up a fence. Total cost, including labor to meet idiotic, tyrannical code in time for me to occupy the house, about 1K. Tyranny.
 
It's reminiscent of Obamacare in an inverse way. Iirc with Obamacare, you have to get that insurance. With these lightbulbs supposedly it's illegal to buy them. They are similar because government dictates what you will and won't buy.
 
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The new standards where made on the basis of the engineering being there to make incandescent bulbs that put out more light with less energy. So it is a code based on engineering. Further, your whole it is except when I say it isn't method of deciding tyranny is unimpressive and does not work. It is further stupid since by your own admission, we have already been in in a state of tyranny, except, well, we are not in a state of tyranny.
 
Redress said:
Seriously, read the sources. They can now make incandescent bulbs that conform to the standards. The technology(interesting side note) was perfected based on lighting used for reef aquariums, where they needed high intensity bulbs that put out less heat. IN point of fact, you can buy the new incandescent bulbs at Home Depot that conform to the standard.
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You still are purposely ignoring the facts yourself. The standards effectively ban the sale of products that do not fit the new standards. I don't honestly care to hear about what the new technology does or how similar it is to the old or how much better it is, I just don't care nor is it relevant to my point. If you can't refute that it does effectively ban the sale of the old product, my point stands, sorry.
 
Redress said:
The new standards where made on the basis of the engineering being there to make incandescent bulbs that put out more light with less energy. So it is a code based on engineering. Further, your whole it is except when I say it isn't method of deciding tyranny is unimpressive and does not work. It is further stupid since by your own admission, we have already been in in a state of tyranny, except, well, we are not in a state of tyranny.
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Tyranny comes in many levels, some more harsh than others. Standards that make products illegal for sale can pretty effectively be a level of tyranny.
 
Henrin said:
You still are purposely ignoring the facts yourself. The standards effectively ban the sale of products that do not fit the new standards. I don't honestly care to hear about what the new technology does or how similar it is to the old or how much better it is, I just don't care nor is it relevant to my point. If you can't refute that it does effectively ban the sale of the old product, my point stands, sorry.
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OK, I will say this slower...you...can...still...buy...incandescent...bulbs...that...put...out...the...same...level...and...intensity...of...light.

Henrin said:
Tyranny comes in many levels, some more harsh than others. Standards that make products illegal for sale can pretty effectively be a level of tyranny.
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Tyranny over lightbulbs is a great example over overblown hyperbole.
 
Redress said:
The new standards where made on the basis of the engineering being there to make incandescent bulbs that put out more light with less energy. So it is a code based on engineering. Further, your whole it is except when I say it isn't method of deciding tyranny is unimpressive and does not work. It is further stupid since by your own admission, we have already been in in a state of tyranny, except, well, we are not in a state of tyranny.
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No. No. No. This was ideologically driven. There is a mother Earth religion. It has a variety of names. Currently it is human caused climate change. Engineers did not get together and say, as engineers occasionally do, "Hey, we have this really nice technology and we want to add it to our standards. This is such a marketplace winner we are not sure if we can keep the shelves stocked. After all, it is three times as expensive as the current solution, it offers light that no one will want, when it breaks people in HAZMAT suits have to come clean up the spill."

No. If the market wanted it no government rule, regulation, directive, from a government busybody department would be necessary. Tyranny is clearly visible when you actually choose to open your eyes.
 
Redress said:
Tyranny over lightbulbs is a great example over overblown hyperbole.
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Can you buy any toilet you want for your home or business? No. Why not? The same agency with the same tyrannical view. 1.6 gallons per flush. Period. Want six gallons? Nope. You get what a government bureaucrat has decided is good for you.
In every area of your life there is a big brother type bureaucrat ready to hound you to death for your own good. And that is tyranny.
 
Misterveritis said:
No. No. No. This was ideologically driven. There is a mother Earth religion. It has a variety of names. Currently it is human caused climate change. Engineers did not get together and say, as engineers occasionally do, "Hey, we have this really nice technology and we want to add it to our standards. This is such a marketplace winner we are not sure if we can keep the shelves stocked. After all, it is three times as expensive as the current solution, it offers light that no one will want, when it breaks people in HAZMAT suits have to come clean up the spill."
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Ummm...first off, only compact florescent have the issue with any toxicity, and it's minor. Only the upfront cost is more, the actual cost of buying and using the bulbs are less for each of the three main types, incandescent, compact fluorescent and LED. The modern bulbs, light is just as good with each as old incandescent, in the case of LEDs I believe better.

The climate change concept is totally spurious, as this was part of an energy independence program. Nothing to do with climate change. By the way, do you happen to know how republicans voted on the bill. And which president signed it? That one is going to really hurt your claim of ideologically driven.

No. If the market wanted it no government rule, regulation, directive, from a government busybody department would be necessary. Tyranny is clearly visible when you actually choose to open your eyes.
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Standards on lightbulbs is not tyranny. That is overblown hyperbole. There are literally thousands upon thousands of such standards, and the US is not by any stretch of the imagination a tyranny. In fact, we are one of the most economically free countries in the world.
 
Redress said:
OK, I will say this slower...you...can...still...buy...incandescent...bulbs...that...put...out...the...same...level...and...intensity...of...light.
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But they aren't the same lightbulbs. My point. Thanks for playing.

Tyranny over lightbulbs is a great example over overblown hyperbole.
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No, its not. Its just not at the level you think warrants the charge.
 
Misterveritis said:
Can you buy any toilet you want for your home or business? No. Why not? The same agency with the same tyrannical view. 1.6 gallons per flush. Period. Want six gallons? Nope. You get what a government bureaucrat has decided is good for you.
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God, I hate low flow toilets so much. :2mad: Thanks gov, this toilet is awesome! So much better than the old version. :roll:
 
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Redress said:
The climate change concept is totally spurious, as this was part of an energy independence program. Nothing to do with climate change. By the way, do you happen to know how republicans voted on the bill. And which president signed it? That one is going to really hurt your claim of ideologically driven.
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Statists who crave control voted for it. If a busybody can tell you what you can and cannot buy then you are in a tyrannical situation. I cannot help you. Your blindness is complete.
 
How is this any different then other regulations that no one cares about?
 
Your Star said:
How is this any different then other regulations that no one cares about?
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It's one of those things, no matter how small and arbitrary to you, it does effect someone negatively.

The common usage of more energy efficient bulbs is already underway, there really is no need for this ban.
 
I switched out all the incandescent bulbs for the energy-savers (florescent/LED) years ago at both of my houses. The illumination is the same, they are cooler and consume less energy, and they last much longer.
 
The lamps I use in my apartment use 20 W per hour. I have about 10 of them, and use them about 5 hours per day when we include that I don't all of them at the same time. Hence I use 31KW per month on lightning.

If I switched to Incandecent Bulbs I would have to use 100W bulbs to get the same lightning. That is 155KW. Instead of using 100-140KW per month, I would be using 200 - 300KW per month. I wouldn't care if they banned them here, because I would never use them.

However, I don't see the point of banning inefficient incandecent bulbs. Some people may need it, if they for instance need a cheap heating source. A better decision would be to inform the customer. For instance at all packages they have to inform luminosity, KW rating and life span.
 
I don't care in the slightest. I switched to compact fluorescents a few years ago and have no intention of ever switching back.
 
molten_dragon said:
I don't care in the slightest. I switched to compact fluorescents a few years ago and have no intention of ever switching back.
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Do you see the difference between you having a choice to make and a government busybody telling you that you must purchase "this" and won't be allowed an longer to purchase "that" all based on ideology? See how far you get if your choice is not approved by a government busybody. Start with a real flush toilet. Try to get something in the 6 gallons per flush range. Why do we allow this?
 
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