Is this ethical?

[Slartibartfast]

Where I work we are piloting a data collection platform for machine run data and product measurement data, either from manual measurements or from automated machine. This platform runs at workstations located at each major operation in the various process steps for the stuff we make. The software at each workstation ties into a central database that I will probably get next month (right now we are running it off an express version of a database to prove that it will work before making a larger investment). This thing is very "chatty" over a network and requires local network speeds to the database to work correctly, so it cannot be housed in corporate's data center (unless we do major phone line upgrades, which won't happen). If it works like we expect, then this platform will get rolled out to all North American plants or possibly world wide to the off shore plants as well.

So we are talking about over 30 separate database installs plus associated hardware. Our choice is either Oracle or MS SQL Server. Corporate wants to push for Oracle, however the corporate director heading this project is listening to me and I am trying to decide whether to push for SQL Server or Oracle.

Here is my dilemma. I want to push for SQL Server, for multiple reasons, the major one being that Oracle wont offer us anything to justify the additional cost. However, corporate's point is that they have more Oracle expertise than SQL Server expertise. However, my db certification is in SQL Server (not that I ever used the cert, I just went and got it because I wanted to know how databases worked) and I am sensing a possible change in job title if this thing hits the big time, and corporate quality realizes someone will have to manage this thing full time, especially give the extraordinary mission creep potential this type of project has. I doubt I would get much more if any more pay, but it would be something new and interesting and I tend to like new and interesting situations.

Is my jockeying ethical?

 

[tessaesque]

Input on what will work best for the employee to get the job done (and therefore be more efficient) doesn't seem unethical to me. They'll ultimately be making the final decision, right?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Input on what will work best for the employee to get the job done (and therefore be more efficient) doesn't seem unethical to me. They'll ultimately be making the final decision, right?

Its coming out of quality's budget, so the director will make the final decision.

 

[tessaesque]

Its coming out of quality's budget, so the director will make the final decision.

Then I don't see anything wrong with you pushing for something that will make the job easier.

 

[Jerry]

Where I work we are piloting a data collection platform for machine run data and product measurement data, either from manual measurements or from automated machine. This platform runs at workstations located at each major operation in the various process steps for the stuff we make. The software at each workstation ties into a central database that I will probably get next month (right now we are running it off an express version of a database to prove that it will work before making a larger investment). This thing is very "chatty" over a network and requires local network speeds to the database to work correctly, so it cannot be housed in corporate's data center (unless we do major phone line upgrades, which won't happen). If it works like we expect, then this platform will get rolled out to all North American plants or possibly world wide to the off shore plants as well.

So we are talking about over 30 separate database installs plus associated hardware. Our choice is either Oracle or MS SQL Server. Corporate wants to push for Oracle, however the corporate director heading this project is listening to me and I am trying to decide whether to push for SQL Server or Oracle.

Here is my dilemma. I want to push for SQL Server, for multiple reasons, the major one being that Oracle wont offer us anything to justify the additional cost. However, corporate's point is that they have more Oracle expertise than SQL Server expertise. However, my db certification is in SQL Server (not that I ever used the cert, I just went and got it because I wanted to know how databases worked) and I am sensing a possible change in job title if this thing hits the big time, and corporate quality realizes someone will have to manage this thing full time, especially give the extraordinary mission creep potential this type of project has. I doubt I would get much more if any more pay, but it would be something new and interesting and I tend to like new and interesting situations.

Is my jockeying ethical?

You realize that you're just a player in the game, so play your part to the best of your ability.

 

[StillBallin75]

Mega: you sound like my parents' typical dinner conversations.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Then I don't see anything wrong with you pushing for something that will make the job easier.

Well, the push is for which type of database to deploy on the back end. I want to push for the one I understand and can be effective at, while holding open the possibility for a change in job when this thing has a large enough installation base. Ultimately, I see no advantage or disadvantage to the company whether we go Oracle or SQL Server. SQL Server is cheaper though, given how the per processor licensing works.

 

[Psychoclown]

Here is my dilemma. I want to push for SQL Server, for multiple reasons, the major one being that Oracle wont offer us anything to justify the additional cost. However, corporate's point is that they have more Oracle expertise than SQL Server expertise. However, my db certification is in SQL Server (not that I ever used the cert, I just went and got it because I wanted to know how databases worked) and I am sensing a possible change in job title if this thing hits the big time, and corporate quality realizes someone will have to manage this thing full time, especially give the extraordinary mission creep potential this type of project has. I doubt I would get much more if any more pay, but it would be something new and interesting and I tend to like new and interesting situations.

Is my jockeying ethical?

It seems to me you have both personal and operational reasons for your stance, so I think it is ethical. If Oracle is more expensive without adding any extra value to justify the extra expense, that is a very legitimate reason to advocate going with SQL. The fact that you may benefit by getting a new job title is secondary.

 

[Slartibartfast]

It seems to me you have both personal and operational reasons for your stance, so I think it is ethical. If Oracle is more expensive without adding any extra value to justify the extra expense, that is a very legitimate reason to advocate going with SQL. The fact that you may benefit by getting a new job title is secondary.

I just think it would be nice to be full time technical again.

But you are right I think, if I did believe that Oracle did something special that SQL Server didn't do and this software needed that feature, I would advocate Oracle. However, the vendor tells me that either one would do fine.

Mega: you sound like my parents' typical dinner conversations.

I am sorry your parents are as boring as me.

 

[AGENT J]

Seems fine to me. I dont think its unethical because you arent covering any obvious CONS with the the system you want and you pointed out atleast 1 PRO of the system you want. Not to mention you dont get to make the final decision you are just an adviser?

Seems fine.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Ugh, I just looked up DBA salarys on payscale.com. Their salary has gone down. Its now around 60k when it was nearly 80k when I last looked. :shock:

Yeah, I won't be getting any raises for doing this.

 

[Mach]

Well, the push is for which type of database to deploy on the back end. I want to push for the one I understand and can be effective at, while holding open the possibility for a change in job when this thing has a large enough installation base. Ultimately, I see no advantage or disadvantage to the company whether we go Oracle or SQL Server. SQL Server is cheaper though, given how the per processor licensing works.

Ethical. Besides, they are better off with the guy they know and trust, rather than making some unknown new hire who knows Oracle, right?

Only thing I'd add to the discussion is that there is inherent risk in going with large scale vendor choices that differ from corporate. When things go good, no difference. If things go south, they can say "who the F chose SQL when all our experience is with Oracle???!?" "Oh, that guy". Of course, in your specific situation this may be irrelevant or so improbable it's worth the risk...just saying it tweaked that nerve for me.

 

[StillBallin75]

I just think it would be nice to be full time technical again.

But you are right I think, if I did believe that Oracle did something special that SQL Server didn't do and this software needed that feature, I would advocate Oracle. However, the vendor tells me that either one would do fine.



I am sorry your parents are as boring as me.

Not boring, it is like watching two people speak Martian.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Not boring, it is like watching two people speak Martian.

What's bad is that I rewrote it to take as many technical terms out as I could without making the thing into a giant wall of text.

 

[samsmart]

Well, the push is for which type of database to deploy on the back end. I want to push for the one I understand and can be effective at, while holding open the possibility for a change in job when this thing has a large enough installation base. Ultimately, I see no advantage or disadvantage to the company whether we go Oracle or SQL Server. SQL Server is cheaper though, given how the per processor licensing works.

Try to put yourself in your boss' shoes.

If you were promoted to your boss' position what would you say to the replacement who filled your current position if he was pushing for SQL servers over Oracle?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Try to put yourself in your boss' shoes.

If you were promoted to your boss' position what would you say to the replacement who filled your current position if he was pushing for SQL servers over Oracle?

I would ask him to justify it with as much data as possible.

However, my true opinion is that this software is a piece of ****, that was chosen hastily and there are much better options available, however, I would be a pariah if I gave that opinion.

 

[Mach]

lol, and compared to the decision corporate makes on a daily basis, you're at like a 9/10 in terms of how ethical your choice was compared them being daily at about 3/10. It's like a boyscout asking if he should start with the family he knows for fund raising, or the house he hasn't been to yet. That doesn't even registor on their jaded ethics meters!!

Once you start making about half ethical and half unethical, they'll probably promote you out of fear you're getting wise to them. Hit 3/10 and you're executive material. The bible known as Office Space even touched on this one Just made me laugh in retrospect.


Good luck. hope it goes your way.

 

[Slartibartfast]

lol, and compared to the decision corporate makes on a daily basis, you're at like a 9/10 in terms of how ethical your choice was compared them being daily at about 3/10. It's like a boyscout asking if he should start with the family he knows for fund raising, or the house he hasn't been to yet. That doesn't even registor on their jaded ethics meters!!

Once you start making about half ethical and half unethical, they'll probably promote you out of fear you're getting wise to them. Hit 3/10 and you're executive material. The bible known as Office Space even touched on this one Good luck. hope it goes your way.

All I can say is that my integrity is important to me. :shrug:

 

[StillBallin75]

All I can say is that my integrity is important to me. :shrug:

You're a good dude, bro.

 

[samsmart]

I would ask him to justify it with as much data as possible.

However, my true opinion is that this software is a piece of ****, that was chosen hastily and there are much better options available, however, I would be a pariah if I gave that opinion.

In that case that's what I would tell your boss and then be ready to suggest those better options if he asks. But if he doesn't want to hear it and is bound and determined to go with Oracle then I would keep my mouth shut and go on with my job.

I would never be afraid to suggest something based on my honest expert professional opinion to my boss. After all that's what I'm hired to do and what my boss pays me to do. To hold back my honest opinion would not only be unethical but also unprofessional.

And if my boss got onto me about making that suggestion I would point out that last part to him and say that I'm only trying to look out for the business, and if the boss doesn't want to follow my suggestions then fine but it's still my duty to speak up even if the boss doesn't act on it.

 

[Slartibartfast]

No Oracle is very good software, the application that requires the database is the POS.

 

[samsmart]

No Oracle is very good software, the application that requires the database is the POS.

Then speak up on that.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Then speak up on that.

I have raised my concerns with the department managers privately. They agree, but they are being pushed to get it done anyway. However, based on my opinion of the software, I may not take an offer to become a DBA if offered since I don't want to be blamed for something beyond my ability to control. No credit if I make it work well, blame if I do not. As far as my boss goes, he's on vacation this week. I may talk to him next depending on how this week goes. I am going to do some config changes on the hosting box to see if it helps.

However, this move is being dictated by intermanager politics more than the need for data, and that is something I am hesitant to get deep into.

 

[samsmart]

I have raised my concerns with the department managers privately. They agree, but they are being pushed to get it done anyway. However, based on my opinion of the software, I may not take an offer to become a DBA if offered since I don't want to be blamed for something beyond my ability to control. No credit if I make it work well, blame if I do not. As far as my boss goes, he's on vacation this week. I may talk to him next depending on how this week goes. I am going to do some config changes on the hosting box to see if it helps.

However, this move is being dictated by intermanager politics more than the need for data, and that is something I am hesitant to get deep into.

Is it possible to go over the heads of the managers politicking and talk to somebody above them who are more interested in investing in good reliable equipment and software for the business than in livening up their lame lives with stupid drama that would cause the business to run more inefficiently?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Is it possible to go over the heads of the managers politicking and talk to somebody above them who are more interested in investing in good reliable equipment and software for the business than in livening up their lame lives with stupid drama that would cause the business to run more inefficiently?

Not over the director level, no.