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Should DP add 'independent conservative' and 'independent liberal'?

Should DP add 'independent conservative' and 'independent liberal' options

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
Well, to be fair, the 'independent' conservative are now (incorrectly) calling themselves Libertarians.

How about just adding the category - 'real' Libertarian.?

BTW -- would these 'independent' minded conservatives vote for a Democrat? I mean, being so open minded and all...
 
hazlnut said:
Well, to be fair, the 'independent' conservative are now (incorrectly) calling themselves Libertarians.
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Why do you say that? If they are socially liberal and economically conservative, then they are libertarian.
 
hazlnut said:
Well, to be fair, the 'independent' conservative are now (incorrectly) calling themselves Libertarians.

How about just adding the category - 'real' Libertarian.?

BTW -- would these 'independent' minded conservatives vote for a Democrat? I mean, being so open minded and all...
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Believe it or not, I have voted for Democrats... not many but there have been a few that were Conservative in ideology. For example, I have voted for Sam Nunn and Zell Miller... both Democrats...
 
Jerry said:
Questo è esattamente ciò che significa. Abbiamo bisogno di un vocabolario comune in modo che possiamo capire gli altri.
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Moderator's Warning:
This post violates Rule 7. Cease doing this.
 
Jerry said:
Those who follow 'in lockstep' with any party are few and far between to begin with. A lean is just a lean, not a firm standing.
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It's a matter of perception. It sets a sterotypical position that others will often see. I see that as problematic.

And those who follow "lockstep" are not as far and few bewteen as you might think.
 
Jerry said:
The secret is everyone belongs to something, even if only in part, even if they belong to several different groups to varying degrees at the same time. No one belongs to nothing, which is what you would have to be as an independent or unaffiliated, etc. You have to be truly neutral on every conceivable issue.

So you're either truly neutral, a political coward, or you have various positions, and are thus a lire.

In reality, the total sum of all the positions and opinions of anyone who is politically engaged lands you on one side or the other of the conservative/liberal left/right plane.
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Which is all irrelevant as to how someone wants to identify themselves. If the sum of all of one's positions equate to being 60% liberal, that doesn't mean that they lean left. Some of those 40% may matter more than some of the 60%. You are making a presentation based on YOUR perception, but your perception of another's belief system and how they define it is completely meaningless.
 
Misterveritis said:
I think independents are gutless. They are neither fish nor fowl, hot nor cold...
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Oh, really?

I got more guts in my toe.

---

Anyway, I think we should add as many leans as people can come up with. What's the harm?

Here's a few leans that should be added, off the top:

MediaMatters (someone could use it, I'm sure)
MEtard
Contrarian
Anime
Poe
Bobo

The more choices, the better, right?
 
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Badmutha said:
Political lean is about Ideology, not party affiliation......

.....anyone who claims to have an Independent ideology......is confused.
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Simply not true.
Why ?
There are possibily as many political "leanings" are there are people....that is caused by intelligence and the ability to think for oneself...
Of course, one must compromise, but this goes only so far....and varies day to day....."confusing" for some, I am sure..
 
Jerry said:
That's exactly like saying everyone should be allowed to spell just however they want, use whatever language they want, and to hell with the masses if no one ever knows what you're saying.
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Yeah , yeah, whatever you say, Jerry.
Or is a Nazi a rigid extremest ?
 
No one belongs to nothing, which is what you would have to be as an independent or unaffiliated, etc. You have to be truly neutral on every conceivable issue.
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That's not what it means.

I'm independant because my support depends on the issue. I'm left social and right economic (libertarian) in general, but I disagree often enough with libertarians (green, pro-war, pro-life) that I'm not invited to their club - and let's face it, they suck anyway :)

I'm also pro-executive power and tend to support the president, whatever party it may be. I support Hillary over other dems (despite her healthcare) because she's a hawk (at least, I think so, relatively).

You can't put me left when I distain entitlement programs and prefer a "national defense only" policy and you can't put me right with anti-capital punishment, pro-gay and pro-green.


So, what do you suggest?


ps. "Neutral" on most things would be a centrist or a moderate, I figure.
 
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Independent Korean whose independence was declared before other people's independence from their independence
I want that as a lean
 
xpiher said:
The fact that you believe its a plane instead of a grid is the shocking part.

Political Compass - Analysis
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The fact that you think I wasn't talking about the exact same thing you linked to is...well no it's not so shocking because you don't seem to pick up on things fairly well.

We're talking about the same thing.
 
hazlnut said:
Well, to be fair, the 'independent' conservative are now (incorrectly) calling themselves Libertarians.

How about just adding the category - 'real' Libertarian.?

BTW -- would these 'independent' minded conservatives vote for a Democrat? I mean, being so open minded and all...
Click to expand...

There are conservative democrats and they have voted for democrats before.

The problem is a lack of viable conservative politicians to vote for on either side of the isle. The majority of both sides of the house are big government liberals.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I think it would actually be a better idea to allow people to write in their own political lean, rather than selecting their ideology from a drop-down menu.
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Jerry said:
That's exactly like saying everyone should be allowed to spell just however they want, use whatever language they want, and to hell with the masses if no one ever knows what you're saying.
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StillBallin75 said:
Not really, but whatever.
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Jerry said:
Questo è esattamente ciò che significa. Abbiamo bisogno di un vocabolario comune in modo che possiamo capire gli altri.
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CaptainCourtesy said:
Moderator's Warning:
This post violates Rule 7. Cease doing this.
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7. English - All threads will be in the English language. Threads and posts which are not in English may be edited or deleted at the discretion of a Moderator. Please include translations with any posts that are not in English.

This rule exists for a good reason, and that same logic is why we need an official language for the US. But I digress. My point on the need for a common vocabulary can't be more evidenced then a mod warning enforcing the same.

BTW, here's the translation for my Italian post:

This is exactly what it means. We need a common vocabulary so that we can understand the other.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Which is all irrelevant as to how someone wants to identify themselves. If the sum of all of one's positions equate to being 60% liberal, that doesn't mean that they lean left.
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It means they lean liberal.

They could be part of the liberal right, the radical religious, so I agree that a liberal/conservative lean doesn't dictate one's left/right lean.

CaptainCourtesy said:
Some of those 40% may matter more than some of the 60%. You are making a presentation based on YOUR perception, but your perception of another's belief system and how they define it is completely meaningless.
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Unaffiliated, for example, is not a definition of what you are. It's not an identity of any sort. It's a statement of what you are not, an anti-ID. "Unaffiliated" doesn't say anything about your general outlook on anything.

Those of us who've taken liberal or conservative leans are just as 'unaffiliated' with any official political party as yourself. Capt'n you are not the true-neutral you want people to believe. I have no problem with your being a progressive, but you are a progressive.
 
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ludahai said:
I have been thinking about this. I am quite conservative in my outlook, though I define what it means for myself and I am not affiliated with the GOP. However, due to my conservative lean, some mistakenly ascribe that to myself (and others who are like me.) Thus, should DP add 'independent conservative' and 'independent liberal' to the political affiliation options.
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nope......conservative DOES NOT equal republican, just as liberal DOES not equal democrat. i identify as a liberal, mostly vote dem. but that doesn't mean i ALWAYS vote the party.

i respect true conservatives.
 
Jerry said:
It means they lean liberal.
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I don't agree, as I explained in my next sentence.

They could be part of the liberal right, the radical religious, so I agree that a liberal/conservative lean doesn't dictate one's left/right lean.
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Which is one reason why the "lean" part is irrelevant.

Unaffiliated, for example, is not a definition of what you are. It's not an identity of any sort. It's a statement of what you are not, an anti-ID. "Unaffiliated" doesn't say anything about your general outlook on anything.
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Correct. I do not want to be identified by my general outlook, because that may have zero to do with my position on specific issues.

Those of us who've taken liberal or conservative leans are just as 'unaffiliated' with any official political party as yourself.
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NOW you're getting it.

Capt'n you are not the true-neutral you want people to believe. I have no problem with your being a progressive, but you are a progressive.
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I think I'm pretty clear that I am a progressive, but I do not view that on some sort of left-right plane. In fact, as far as my belief system goes, the left-right plane is pretty irrelevant.
 
No, but it should do away with the "undisclosed" option.

You're on a political board. What's with the "I don't want to disclose my political leaning?"
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I don't agree, as I explained in my next sentence.
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How strongly some issues are than others to you does not determine the number of times you get to vote for or against any of them, which is why I discount personal importance.

Since you only get to vote one time per issue, then if out of 100 of your votes 60 land on the liberal side, you have a liberal lean.

One can not vote liberal most of the time and claim they are anything else with any shred of integrity.
 
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LuckyDan said:
No, but it should do away with the "undisclosed" option.

You're on a political board. What's with the "I don't want to disclose my political leaning?"
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Undisclosed should be the first to go. If you don't want people to know what your general lean is, then you should keep your opinions to yourself and never post here.
 
LuckyDan said:
No, but it should do away with the "undisclosed" option.

You're on a political board. What's with the "I don't want to disclose my political leaning?"
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Absolutely not. Read someone's posts to figure out where they stand. If you can't do THAT, and need someone to tell you what their overall lean is, you are just going to follow along with the stereotypes.
 
Jerry said:
How strongly some issues are than others to you does not determine the number of times you get to vote for or against any of them, which is why I discount personal importance.

Since you only get to vote one time per issue, then if out of 100 of your votes 60 land on the liberal side, you have a liberal lean.

One can not vote liberal most of the time and claim they are anything else with any shred of integrity.
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Disagree. How strong an issue's importance is impacts how much one will spend time addressing or advocating for that issue. Also, when voting for someone, if a candidate's position on that one important issue, opposes one's position, that might prevent that individual from voting for that candidate. I know it would for me.

For example, Jerry... if there was a candidate who was mildly for most of the things you support, but STRONGLY for abortion on demand, would you vote for him?
 
Jerry said:
Undisclosed should be the first to go. If you don't want people to know what your general lean is, then you should keep your opinions to yourself and never post here.
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I agree.


Now, about independent. Give me a minute, please, a look at my explaination alone. Forget what other independents have used for excuses up till now, for the sake of this minute.

Passionately, in order of importance:

Militant (DemPeaceTheory).
Green (not AGW).
Pro-gay (Regarding SSM, the abolition of marriage and civil union is my fundamental stance, but I'll support 'unions for everyone' for transitional equal rights purposes).
Pro-life (few reservations).

The rest is pretty much disinterested libertarian.


What's my lean?

Anyone else, feel free to jump in and let me know if there is a better option than independent. I'm pretty sure that being most passionate about militant and green largely screws the pooch from the git-go.

Thanks
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
Absolutely not. Read someone's posts to figure out where they stand. If you can't do THAT, and need someone to tell you what their overall lean is, you are just going to follow along with the stereotypes.
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Over time, with high-volume posters, that works. I don't necessarily want to search out all of any given user's posts to figure his lean out.

And so what if someone wants to follow along with a stereotype? Like old sayings, they tend to be true, anyway.
 
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ecofarm said:
I agree.


Now, about independent. Give me a minute, please, a look at my explaination alone. Forget what other independents have used for excuses up till now, for the sake of this minute.

Passionately, in order of importance:

Militant (DemPeaceTheory).
Green (not AGW).
Pro-gay (Regarding SSM, the abolition of marriage and civil union is my fundamental stance, but I'll support 'unions for everyone' for transitional equal rights purposes).
Pro-life (few reservations).

The rest is pretty much disinterested libertarian.


What's my lean?
Anyone else, feel free to jump in and let me know if there is a better option than independent. I'm pretty sure that being most passionate about militant and green largely screws the pooch from the git-go.

Thanks
Click to expand...

A pro-life liberal. Not all that rare, really.
 
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