• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Old vs new American car design

What American car design do you like better?

  • New

    Votes: 12 40.0%

  • Old

    Votes: 18 60.0%

  • I'm not sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    30
Lord Tammerlain said:
Yes

Car and Driver took a bunch of car to Virgina International Raceway, the Mustang Gt 2011 beat the Nissan 370Z and quite a few other cars (Camaro SS) around the track by a few seconds. It also cost 3-5 grand less new then a comparably equiped 370Z
Click to expand...

If you have ever watched Top Gear they explained why the Mustang is no good around corners. The solid rear axle doesn't allow for grip in the corners. When you said around the track I assumed you meant one with corners.

The Mustang pales in comparison with any of the European cars of the same class in handling.
 
VanceMack said:
The falcon had radically different lines and a wider wheel base. Similar power plant. The Falcon stayed more 'boxy.' I ownd both the 66 mustang and later the 66 Falcon...loved em both. I would think the closer comparison for the Mustang was the Merc Cougar.

127_0212_09z+1969_Mercury_Cougar_XR7+Driver_Side_View.jpg
Click to expand...

His comment was about the evolution of the Falcon. The Mustang was the evolution of the Falcon as the first Mustang used the falcon chassis, engine and transmission.
 
justabubba said:
took a while to find it mason; thought you might appreciate the design aspect:
dodgetrucksemblem.jpg
Click to expand...

That is funny.

I always felt like I needed a cowboy hat to drive it.

There is nothing in its class, and I thought the new design in 2004 was ugly and it had less room inside, so I kept my old one. It only has like 55k on it in 12 years.
 
ronpaulvoter said:
For practical everyday cars, the best were made in the mid to late 1970's.

They got excellent fuel economy and were built to last. Many could ram a solid object, like a tree or wall at 5 mph and suffer NO damage. Today's cars will crush like a paper cup.

They were also a lot simpler and easier and cheaper to repair and maintain. Today's cars have too much crap on them, like air bags, electric locks, computers that die on the middle of the highway, etc; much of it is imposed by government.
Click to expand...

There is not one aspect of a mid to late '70s car that was worth a crap.

Please point to one car that had good fuel economy.

Please point to one car that was easy to work on.

Please point to one that was made to last.

I think you meant to say '60s cars, even though they were not made to last either.
 
Mid (actually, starting at catalytic converters 72 in CA 73 elsewhere) to late 70s were the dark ages of American cars. Witness the Mustang II.

It wasn't until the 80s stang and camaro returned to 200HP range did light shine again.
 
ecofarm said:
Mid (actually, starting at catalytic converters 72 in CA 73 elsewhere) to late 70s were the dark ages of American cars. Witness the Mustang II.

It wasn't until the 80s stang and camaro returned to 200HP range did light shine again.
Click to expand...

1981 being the worst year for cars ever.

Even the Corvette was a gutless piece of crap.
 
ecofarm said:
Mid (actually, starting at catalytic converters 72 in CA 73 elsewhere) to late 70s were the dark ages of American cars. Witness the Mustang II.

It wasn't until the 80s stang and camaro returned to 200HP range did light shine again.
Click to expand...

I will give you an example of what happened to cars entering the '70s

We are all familiar with the Cadillac 500 CID engine.

In 1970 it had 375 horsepower.

By 1975 that had dropped to 190 while using the same amount or more gasoline to get the car moving.

That is the government at work.
 
Although Dodge was exposed, I still love the Stealth. :)
 
Let's just pretend that between the split-bumper camaro and the 85 stang... nothing happened. Right? Nobody saw anything.



ps. I'm pretty sure we got trolled. A non-political troll. What kind of sick crap is that.
 

Attachments

  • 71-73cam.jpg
    71-73cam.jpg
    4.1 KB · Views: 132
Last edited:
kaya'08 said:
Omg what car is that? I want it.
Click to expand...

1965 Ford GT40 prototype. Kit replicas are available but at a fairly hefty price

I prefer a bit of retro with the build quality of the modern. My daily driver
 

Attachments

  • my challenger 3quarter view small.JPG
    my challenger 3quarter view small.JPG
    80.5 KB · Views: 123
Mason66 said:
I will give you an example of what happened to cars entering the '70s

We are all familiar with the Cadillac 500 CID engine.

In 1970 it had 375 horsepower.

By 1975 that had dropped to 190 while using the same amount or more gasoline to get the car moving.
Click to expand...
no quibble with you this far
That is the government at work.
Click to expand...
here is where we part company
after the yon kippur war of '73 opec imposed an oil embargo
not only did the price of a barrel of oil increase four fold but the availability was spotty
there was one week when 1/5 of all service stations had no gasoline
nixon asked that gas not be sold on weekends ... and the gas lines were huge during the weekday (even numbered tags only on the even days of the calendar)
meanwhile detroit executives kept insisting Americans would not buy a small car
at the same time congress rationed the number of imports which could be sold by the japanese auto makers. hell, subaru put seats in the bed of its trucks so they would be eligible for entry as "cars" since truck imports were severely limited
sales prices for the gas sipping japanese cars began at sticker, and the bidding went up from there
this lasted until the early 80's (when the japanese began making cars in the USA - voila - no import restrictions)
the point is, detroit ignored that there was a genuine domestic demand for small, efficient (and reliable) cars
the government facilitated the American auto industry's slow conversion to efficient vehicles by pricing the desired foreign imports out of the reach of many ... forcing them to then buy shoddy, unreliable, poor handling - but comparably cheaper - USA makes
 
American cars that were not supposed to sip gas (corvettes and other high-end vehicles, for people with gas cash) - were crap. How does the gas problem explain that. Catalytic converters (needed as they were) demolished American sports-car engineering. This is obvious, as any make of sport vehicle pre and post-cata is staggeringly disappointing.


Leave aside common vehicles for work, transportation and what not. We're talking about style.
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
American cars that were not supposed to sip gas (corvettes and other high-end vehicles, for people with gas cash) - were crap.

How does the gas problem explain that.

Catalytic converters (needed as they were) demolished American engineering. This is obvious, as any make of sport vehicle pre and post-cata is staggeringly disappointing.
Click to expand...
you got me there
smog regulations did a number on the performance cars
the '75 vette had 10 more horsepower than the original '54 model (155 HP), and that crappy result was almost entirely due to the new smog abatement regs imposed by the government
 
We agreed there was no 75 vette. Never happened.
 
justabubba said:
no quibble with you this far

here is where we part company
after the yon kippur war of '73 opec imposed an oil embargo
not only did the price of a barrel of oil increase four fold but the availability was spotty
there was one week when 1/5 of all service stations had no gasoline
nixon asked that gas not be sold on weekends ... and the gas lines were huge during the weekday (even numbered tags only on the even days of the calendar)
meanwhile detroit executives kept insisting Americans would not buy a small car
at the same time congress rationed the number of imports which could be sold by the japanese auto makers. hell, subaru put seats in the bed of its trucks so they would be eligible for entry as "cars" since truck imports were severely limited
sales prices for the gas sipping japanese cars began at sticker, and the bidding went up from there
this lasted until the early 80's (when the japanese began making cars in the USA - voila - no import restrictions)
the point is, detroit ignored that there was a genuine domestic demand for small, efficient (and reliable) cars
the government facilitated the American auto industry's slow conversion to efficient vehicles by pricing the desired foreign imports out of the reach of many ... forcing them to then buy shoddy, unreliable, poor handling - but comparably cheaper - USA makes
Click to expand...

Every year the car companies had new smog requirements to comply with. They did not know how to do that so they loaded the engine with every kind of pump and vaccum hose they thought would do the job. The culmination was in 1981 and every car that year was crap, I have 2 of them right now. After 1981 the car companies learned how to comply with the standars without robbing too much power from the engines. The "new" 1982 Camaros and Firebirds were proof of that. Mustang was still crap in 1982. It wasn't until 1983 that they crought out the 302 in the Mustang.

That is why the horsepower went down, trying to comply with smog requirements. That had nothing to do with gasoline or gas prices, if it had Cadillac would have downsized their engines, like they did in 1977, instead of leaving them where they were and just lowering the horsepower.

If you have ever driven a 1975 Cadillac DeVille or an Oldsmobile 98 or a Buick Electra 225 from the same year you will know that even with 455 engines they couldn't even burn the tires.
 
Mason66 said:
Why do you say that? It was 1983 that there was no Corvette.
Click to expand...

Nevermind the HP stats in 73-74, they were 'played with' until 75 (when the impact on performance could no longer be so blatently denied and HP calculations went back to 72 standards), check the 0-60s. Catalytics hit in 73 (72 in CA vehicles). There was nothing decent until the 85 Mustang (4 barrel) and then 86 vette and camaro (injection).


1973 - 1984, The Dark Age of American Performance Cars
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
Nevermind the HP stats in 73-74, they were 'played with' until 75 (when the impact on performance could no longer be so blatently denied and HP calculations went back to 72 standards), check the 0-60s. Catalytics hit in 73 (72 in CA vehicles). There was nothing decent until the 85 Mustang (4 barrel) and then 86 vette and camaro (injection).


1973 - 1984, The Dark Age of American Performance Cars
Click to expand...

I totally agree.
 
Most of the mid to late 70's cars can be "retuned" if you know what you are doing. AND, the smog testers will never even know it.
The cars will do better on gas and the emissions numbers will barely change.

My 74 dart with 318 v8 and auto trans got 19mpg at best on the highway until I put on a 340 dual exhaust, recurved the distributor, advanced the timing til it just started to ping, then backed off a few degrees. Then it got 23mpg.

Later Mopars with the computer controlled ignition timing (lean burn) could be rewired to take the prior years standard electronic ignition, distributor, and carb, and gain performance without affecting mileage in a bad way, tho not always improving it much.
In AZ, you can change carbs, ignitions, etc. as long as you don't fail emissions. You pretty much have to as the lean burn computers are hard to find, and too expensive when you do find them, and old carbs can only be rebuilt so many times then you have to buy what you can...
 
This works for me...

2651331535_7864298949.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom