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Is Sarah Palin's use of the American flag a breach of federal law?

Is Sarah Palin's use of the flag breaking the law?

  • YES! Fine her! Throw her in jail!

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Maybe...it seems disrespectful.

    Votes: 2 4.3%

  • Really? This is what we're talking about?

    Votes: 41 89.1%
  • Total voters
    46
Guy Incognito said:
What exactly is going on in this picture, anyway?

There's at least one violation of flag code, the guy in the front wearing the flag as apparel.

But unless the flag here is actually on display, it may not be a violation. Perhaps they are folding it?
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They walked down the street carrying it this way. It was Bush's inaugural parade.

I've never seen anyone actually try to fold a flag that large, properly. I would imagine they stuff it into a hug bag or something... which would be somewhat disrespectful I suppose, but I'm not sure how else you'd store something so big.
 
Whovian said:
They walked down the street carrying it this way. It was Bush's inaugural parade.

I've never seen anyone actually try to fold a flag that large, properly. I would imagine they stuff it into a hug bag or something... which would be somewhat disrespectful I suppose, but I'm not sure how else you'd store something so big.
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I think you have much too little faith in how seriously our military professionals take flag etiquette.

And it occurs to me, there are different regulations concerning military displays of the flag. Each branch has its own internal flag code. Perhaps they differ from the civilian rules in the flag code with respect to horizontal display?

I'll have to research that.
 
D'oh, never mind, I figured it out! Look carefully at the picture. The flag is not horizontal, it is, in fact, aloft. It's being held up by poles in the back.

Not really free though. It's supposed to be aloft and free.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
D'oh, never mind, I figured it out! Look carefully at the picture. The flag is not horizontal, it is, in fact, aloft. It's being held up by poles in the back.

Not really free though. It's supposed to be aloft and free.
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Aloft would mean the whole flag, not part of it. Good effort though.

Let's not forget that to half the street viewers, the flag would appear upside down... again, against the letter of flag code.
 
Whovian said:
Aloft would mean the whole flag, not part of it. Good effort though.
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I tried. It really pains me when the military commits a violation. Just goes to show that an act based on ignorance of proper flag etiquette can violate the letter of flag code and still be of patriotic and sincere intent.

But once one is made aware of the violation, one must do everything to correct it, not stubbornly cling to the impermissible behavior.
 
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I wouldn't personally sign a petition to change this aspect of flag code, but it does seem like an area where norms are changing. If you really don't like it, work to change it. I was serious when I said you should write your Congressman. You and I don't get to define flag etiquette, Congress does, and ours is not to reason why, ours is to simply abide by it.

So until that day that you guys get together and change the code by act of Congress or other means, I must maintain that if you violate flag code, and you do it knowingly and willfully, even if you think you know better, it is disrespectful, period.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
I wouldn't personally sign a petition to change this aspect of flag code, but it does seem like an area where norms are changing. If you really don't like it, work to change it. I was serious when I said you should write your Congressman. You and I don't get to define flag etiquette, Congress does, and ours is not to reason why, ours is to simply abide by it.

So until that day that you guys get together and change the code by act of Congress or other means, I must maintain that if you violate flag code, and you do it knowingly and willfully, even if you think you know better, it is disrespectful, period.
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What does respect for the flag have to do with anything? This issue is of so little importance that it's almost laughable. I can still select a candidate, vote, and understand my civic duty, all the while quite literally tearing a flag into pieces, if I so chose. I can respect my country, respect our armed forces, and actively work to advocate for them, all while quite literally tearing the flag into pieces, if I so chose. Disrespecting the flag is disrespecting the flag. Nothing more, nothing less. I see no reason to write to congress and give them another bull**** policy issue to focus on over laws that are not enforced (and rightfully so) because the SCOTUS said that free speech trumps them, thus invalidating any application of them expect by choice of an individual. Our economy is a joke, our dollar is losing value, food and energy prices are spiking, unemployment is climbing again, the debt ceiling has been reached, we have no agreement on spending cuts, entitlements are going bankrupt, and our men and women in uniform are dying all over the globe in a fight against a terrorist group that won't relent. This is issue almost an insult to dire state of our country.
 
tessaesque said:
What does respect for the flag have to do with anything? This issue is of so little importance that it's almost laughable.
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Honestly, we are of such different opinions about this that it is scarcely worth discussing. Suffice to say that I have nothing but contempt for the sort of views expressed above.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Honestly, we are of such different opinions about this that it is scarcely worth discussing. Suffice to say that I have nothing but contempt for the sort of views expressed above.
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Singular morality does not (and should not) exist. You can hold all the contempt you would like, but nothing justifies it, which just makes it sad.
 
tessaesque said:
Singular morality does not (and should not) exist. You can hold all the contempt you would like, but nothing justifies it, which just makes it sad.
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What's sad is the bleak, morally groundless and nihilistic world you live in. It must be awful, I truly do pity you. You'll be in my prayers.
 
Guy Incognito said:
What's sad is the bleak, morally groundless and nihilistic world you live in. It must be awful, I truly do pity you. You'll be in my prayers.
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I'd rather you didn't waste time on an exercise in futility. I have strong beliefs, and one of them is that everybody has a right to live as they see fit to live, opinions, morals, ethics, and all...in so far as, and until their beliefs and actions infringe upon somebody else's rights. You, on the other hand, would obligate people to live by dictates you value above others, or condemn them in their refusal. Of the two, I feel yours is the bleaker outlook on the world. To have such a lack of confidence in your fellow man to be and do good without your moral compass...says a lot about you.
 
tessaesque said:
I'd rather you didn't waste time on an exercise in futility.
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It's all good, I'm happy to. Who knows, maybe it will help?

I hope you do all right.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
is wearing US-flag boxers a breach of etiquette as well, i wonder.
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And I suppose I violated it when I finished my first Ironman triathlon and carried (and wore out of exhaustion) both the U.S. and Taiwanese flags at the end of the race...
 
ludahai said:
And I suppose I violated it when I finished my first Ironman triathlon and carried (and wore out of exhaustion) both the U.S. and Taiwanese flags at the end of the race...
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Yes, you did.
 
ludahai said:
And I suppose I violated it when I finished my first Ironman triathlon and carried (and wore out of exhaustion) both the U.S. and Taiwanese flags at the end of the race...
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That's amazing. Much belated congratulations.
 
The American flag is put on everything from t-shirts to toilet paper. To me, this is a mental attempt by many liberals to somehow appear like they are defending the flag after decades of seeming like the enemy to the flag (by believing in the honestly sensible decision that burning a flag in protest is still constitutional).
 
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Fiddytree said:
The American flag is put on everything from t-shirts to toilet paper.
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Guy is not going to like this :mrgreen:

flag-toilet-paper.jpg


flag%2008sm.jpg



To me, this is a mental attempt by many liberals of somehow trying to appear like they are defending the flag after decades of seeming like the enemy to the flag (by believing in the honestly sensible decision that burning a flag in protest is still constitutional).
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No, it's just the attempt on the part of a few liberals to find another bull**** excuse to attack Sarah Palin (not that anyone is lacking in legitimate excuses to do so).
 
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Fiddytree said:
The American flag is put on everything from t-shirts to toilet paper. To me, this is a mental attempt by many liberals of somehow trying to appear like they are defending the flag after decades of seeming like the enemy to the flag (by believing in the honestly sensible decision that burning a flag in protest is still constitutional).
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I think this evinces a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue on your part, Fiddy. Allowing flag-burning as a first amendment issue is a patriotic necessity. The real enemies of what the American flag represents are the ones who would criminal flag-burning.

But you may be right about a lot of liberals. I've seen leftists do some pretty atrocious things to flags, and when they violate flag code, it's intentional. Much worse.
 
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Grrr... Those flags on toilets make me want to puke. But I'm guessing Rev and Whovian would leap to defend them as patriotic.:doh

StillBallin75 said:
No, it's just the attempt on the part of a few liberals to find another bull**** excuse to attack Sarah Palin (not that anyone is lacking in excuses to do so).
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I agree with you there. The people who wouldn't give a **** if Obama put a flag on his campaign ads are being massive hypocrites for attacking Palin on this.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
No, it's just the attempt on the part of a few liberals to find another bull**** excuse to attack Sarah Palin (not that anyone is lacking in excuses to do so).
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People like rhetorical targets. There has been a long sense by liberals that they are unfairly seen as unpatriotic, which is true, they have been unfairly painted. Often times what ends up happening is some in the community look for an "ah ha!" moment to catch conservatives doing something at least slightly up for discussion. Don't get me wrong, it is partly a bull**** excuse to attack Palin, but it is apart of the community need to somehow reduce the stigma of liberal patriotism.
 
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Fiddytree said:
People like rhetorical targets. There has been a long sense by liberals that they are unfairly seen as unpatriotic. Often times what ends up happening is some in the community look for an "ah ha!" moment to catch conservatives doing something at least slightly up for discussion. Don't get me wrong, it is partly a bull**** excuse to attack Palin, but it is apart of the community need to somehow reduce the stigma of liberal patriotism.
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That's an oxymoron :lol:

in all seriousness I don't think liberals feel the need to compensate for their perceived lack of patriotism. I'm a patriot, even if I don't show it by driving around a big American truck with a flag attached to it, and I couldn't give less of a **** what some conservative bumper-sticker, flag-waving nationalist thinks of how I feel about by country.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
I think this evinces a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue on your part, Fiddy. Allowing flag-burning as a first amendment issue is a patriotic necessity. The real enemies of what the American flag represents are the ones who would criminal flag-burning.

But you may be right about a lot of liberals. I've seen leftists do some pretty atrocious things to flags, and when they violate flag code, it's intentional. Much worse.
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I said it was a sensible position to take.

in all seriousness I don't think liberals feel the need to compensate for their perceived lack of patriotism. I'm a patriot, even if I don't show it by driving around a big American truck with a flag attached to it, and I couldn't give less of a **** what some conservative bumper-sticker, flag-waving patriot thinks of how I feel about by country.
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I see it. Some may not feel the need to display it in such ways, but irregardless, there is a huge feeling that liberals are getting the short end of the stick with what is considered or who is considered patriotic.
 
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Fiddytree said:
I said it was a sensible position to take.



I see it. Some may not feel the need to display it in such ways, but irregardless, there is a huge feeling that liberals are getting the short end of the stick with what is considered or who is considered patriotic.
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Definitely. But I don't see the desire on the part of liberals to want to compensate for it, for the most part. At the most, if someone accuses me of being unpatriotic simply because I'm a liberal, I'll give him an honest response about how I feel on the subject, and if he or she still isn't willing to listen and continue to subscribe to the "conservatives love their country more than liberals" stereotype, then I just leave.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Definitely. But I don't see the desire on the part of liberals to want to compensate for it, for the most part. At the most, if someone accuses me of being unpatriotic simply because I'm a liberal, I'll give him an honest response about how I feel on the subject, and if he or she still isn't willing to listen and continue to subscribe to the "conservatives love their country more than liberals" stereotype, then I just leave.
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I thought it awfully similar to the family values routine. Conservatives were able to puff their chest in the midst of the counterculture, rightly so I might add, and liberals were struggling with coming up with an identity thereafter (partly because counterculture folks were trying to push out liberal opinion). Liberals since then have longed for the moment where a conservative, who had puffed up their chest or not, engages in dubious moral behavior. You would never hear the end of it, because of the sense of needing to "expose the hypocrisy."
 
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Fiddytree said:
I see it. Some may not feel the need to display it in such ways, but irregardless, there is a huge feeling that liberals are getting the short end of the stick with what is considered or who is considered patriotic.
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well, at Conservative Protest Rallies, the speakers get interrupted by chants of USA USA USA

at Liberal Protest Rallies, people wave signs about AMERIKKKA

Conservative Churches get politicized and people worry that they are saying Jesus Loves America More Than Anyone Else, and the return of Manifest Destiny

Liberal Churches get politicized and start talking about the USKKK of A and how America had 9/11 coming to her




now, it might be unfair to judge any broad-based movement by it's extremes. But I think it's indicative of what direction you are thrusting in when the people who have thrust themselves a bit further are so diametrically opposite.
 
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