What is a human being?

If a unique DNA determines a unique human being, then the odds of any of us being alive is extremely remote. If a different one of the millions of sperm released at conception had fertilized the egg, you wouldn't be you, but a different person. If your father had used a condom at the critical time, you wouldn't exist at all.

If a human being is an immortal spirit temporarily inhabiting a body, then the DNA only determines physical characteristics and some proclivities. The spirit is in charge, and is, in fact the human being. The body, unique DNA and all, is simply a sophisticated machine that quits working when the spirit leaves.

If we're nothing more than a series of electrical impulses and chemical reactions, then the DNA doesn't matter. We are alive and self aware because we think we are. If that is so, then we don't have self determination. We're along for the ride, but the body, which includes the brain, determines what we do or don't do, what we think or don't think.

If we're a spirit in possession of a body, then does it follow that other animals are also spirits, just with a different sort of body? The term "animal" has it roots in the word Animus, or spirit after all.

And, if we're a spirit, then will we have the chance to be born again?

If we live several lives, I want to be reincarnated as a cat. No, not a feral cat, but an old lady's pampered pet. That would be a nice vacation. I can rest up, and be ready to be a human once again.

What do you think?

Who, or what, assigns a specific spirit to a specific animal and based on what? Do you have memories of your past incarnations or any reason to believe that there were any or will be any more? I think some personality traits are inherited while others develop (or change) based on one's environment. The meaning or purpose of one's (or any other being's life) is subject to all sorts of speculation which is the basis of philosophy and religion.

Dittohead not! said:

If we're nothing more than a series of electrical impulses and chemical reactions, then the DNA doesn't matter.

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Why not? DNA drives which chemical reactions happen under which conditions and provides a blueprint for our electrical impulses and reactions to happen over time, but clearly some things are also affected by environment and "inputs" to these reactions.

Dittohead not! said:

If a unique DNA determines a unique human being, then the odds of any of us being alive is extremely remote. If a different one of the millions of sperm released at conception had fertilized the egg, you wouldn't be you, but a different person. If your father had used a condom at the critical time, you wouldn't exist at all.

If a human being is an immortal spirit temporarily inhabiting a body, then the DNA only determines physical characteristics and some proclivities. The spirit is in charge, and is, in fact the human being. The body, unique DNA and all, is simply a sophisticated machine that quits working when the spirit leaves.

If we're nothing more than a series of electrical impulses and chemical reactions, then the DNA doesn't matter. We are alive and self aware because we think we are. If that is so, then we don't have self determination. We're along for the ride, but the body, which includes the brain, determines what we do or don't do, what we think or don't think.

If we're a spirit in possession of a body, then does it follow that other animals are also spirits, just with a different sort of body? The term "animal" has it roots in the word Animus, or spirit after all.

And, if we're a spirit, then will we have the chance to be born again?

If we live several lives, I want to be reincarnated as a cat. No, not a feral cat, but an old lady's pampered pet. That would be a nice vacation. I can rest up, and be ready to be a human once again.

What do you think?

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A challenging and subtle insight articulated very nicely indeed. Its impact on the abortion conversation should be terrific, if those involved in that conversation were open to ideas.

Are we body and spirit or body only?

While the life of the body seems all in all, inasmuch as human life appears to end with the death of the body, and whereas consciousness, certainly dependent on embodiment, also appears to end with death, any argument for the existence of spirit will have to adopt a broader perspective than that of physicalism.

This broader perspective starts from consciousness. That is to say, any argument for spirit must make consciousness all in all in some sense and replace the concept of physical life with the concept of spiritual life. The broader perspective of which I speak must rely on a reality broader than physical reality. This is what philosophical idealism does. Reality, on this view, is fundamentally and essentially mental. Everything is of and for and in mind, including the body and its DNA. indeed including the universe.

Mind is not in the brain on this view; the brain is in the mind. Human life, on this view, is the life of mind -- the life of spirit.

Whether spirit survives the death of the body is a question that cannot be answered, of course, and is in the end a matter of faith.

I live with two cats. That they are not just hungry bodies, that there is spirit in them, is as certain to me as anything in life.

Dittohead not! said:

If a unique DNA determines a unique human being, then the odds of any of us being alive is extremely remote. If a different one of the millions of sperm released at conception had fertilized the egg, you wouldn't be you, but a different person. If your father had used a condom at the critical time, you wouldn't exist at all.

If a human being is an immortal spirit temporarily inhabiting a body, then the DNA only determines physical characteristics and some proclivities. The spirit is in charge, and is, in fact the human being. The body, unique DNA and all, is simply a sophisticated machine that quits working when the spirit leaves.

If we're nothing more than a series of electrical impulses and chemical reactions, then the DNA doesn't matter. We are alive and self aware because we think we are. If that is so, then we don't have self determination. We're along for the ride, but the body, which includes the brain, determines what we do or don't do, what we think or don't think.

If we're a spirit in possession of a body, then does it follow that other animals are also spirits, just with a different sort of body? The term "animal" has it roots in the word Animus, or spirit after all.

And, if we're a spirit, then will we have the chance to be born again?

If we live several lives, I want to be reincarnated as a cat. No, not a feral cat, but an old lady's pampered pet. That would be a nice vacation. I can rest up, and be ready to be a human once again.

What do you think?

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The physical evidence suggests we are simply very sophisticated machines and that what we call free will is probably an illusion. However, there appears to be anecdotal (nonscientific) evidence that there is more to existence than that. I personally have had many experiences that, if I were to use science and math to explain it, would be improbable enough to lead credence to the idea that there are things going on beyond random chance and an entity (that I personally call God) that influences that probability enough to have greatly altered (and on two occasions even saved) my life. In fact, I am in the middle of one of those situations right now where things are happening that are just wildly improbable but also amazing and extremely beneficial to my life and to a few people I deeply care about through these things that are happening.

But, you can't put those exceptional situations in a lab and test for them either. You either trust your experiences or you do not. In my case, I often get what I ask God for, and when I do not get it, I get a lesson and more wisdom/insight instead (and then usually get the original thing I wanted when I am mature enough to handle it), but at the end of the day, stuff keeps happening to put me in a better and better place. That better place could be situational, material, a new or improved relationship, more insight or peace, etc, but there is always a benefit. But again, you can't put that in a lab and test it.

So as to what we are? I have no idea, but I suspect there is more to us than meat.

Slavister said:

Why not? DNA drives which chemical reactions happen under which conditions and provides a blueprint for our electrical impulses and reactions to happen over time, but clearly some things are also affected by environment and "inputs" to these reactions.

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If that is so, then free will is an illusion, is it not?

ttwtt78640 said:

Who, or what, assigns a specific spirit to a specific animal and based on what? Do you have memories of your past incarnations or any reason to believe that there were any or will be any more? I think some personality traits are inherited while others develop (or change) based on one's environment. The meaning or purpose of one's (or any other being's life) is subject to all sorts of speculation which is the basis of philosophy and religion.

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I have no memory of past lives, either physical or spiritual. Neither, I think, does anyone else. We also have no memory of infancy, or being cared for as babies. That doesn't mean that we were never infants, of course, simply that memory doesn't go that far back.

And yes, all of the speculation about spirits is just that, but think of the alternative: A human being as simply a unique combination of DNA. What are the odds of being alive, given the millions of sperm that the man who started that DNA produced? If a different sperm had entered the egg at the critical time, would you be someone else?

Dittohead not! said:

If a unique DNA determines a unique human being, then the odds of any of us being alive is extremely remote. If a different one of the millions of sperm released at conception had fertilized the egg, you wouldn't be you, but a different person. If your father had used a condom at the critical time, you wouldn't exist at all.

If a human being is an immortal spirit temporarily inhabiting a body, then the DNA only determines physical characteristics and some proclivities. The spirit is in charge, and is, in fact the human being. The body, unique DNA and all, is simply a sophisticated machine that quits working when the spirit leaves.

If we're nothing more than a series of electrical impulses and chemical reactions, then the DNA doesn't matter. We are alive and self aware because we think we are. If that is so, then we don't have self determination. We're along for the ride, but the body, which includes the brain, determines what we do or don't do, what we think or don't think.

If we're a spirit in possession of a body, then does it follow that other animals are also spirits, just with a different sort of body? The term "animal" has it roots in the word Animus, or spirit after all.

And, if we're a spirit, then will we have the chance to be born again?

If we live several lives, I want to be reincarnated as a cat. No, not a feral cat, but an old lady's pampered pet. That would be a nice vacation. I can rest up, and be ready to be a human once again.

What do you think?

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Our human DNA denotes us as human, despite our appearance, race, ethnicity, sexuality or other innate chactaeristics.

Dittohead not! said:

I have no memory of past lives, either physical or spiritual. Neither, I think, does anyone else. We also have no memory of infancy, or being cared for as babies. That doesn't mean that we were never infants, of course, simply that memory doesn't go that far back.

And yes, all of the speculation about spirits is just that, but think of the alternative: A human being as simply a unique combination of DNA. What are the odds of being alive, given the millions of sperm that the man who started that DNA produced? If a different sperm had entered the egg at the critical time, would you be someone else?

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You might have been someone else with different appearances, beliefs, and drives but you were always going to be a human.

Dittohead not! said:

If that is so, then free will is an illusion, is it not?

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No. Your brain is a machine but it "decides" based on simulating different options in its neural network what decision to make. Different people will make different connections based on their dna and based on their experiences that go to both development of their brain as well as past experiences as well as mechanisms for HOW to evaluate and apply memories of such experiences.

Dittohead not! said:

I have no memory of past lives, either physical or spiritual. Neither, I think, does anyone else. We also have no memory of infancy, or being cared for as babies. That doesn't mean that we were never infants, of course, simply that memory doesn't go that far back.

And yes, all of the speculation about spirits is just that, but think of the alternative: A human being as simply a unique combination of DNA. What are the odds of being alive, given the millions of sperm that the man who started that DNA produced? If a different sperm had entered the egg at the critical time, would you be someone else?

Click to expand...

If anyone that you have interacted with during your life with had been someone else then you would likely be someone else (have had different life experiences). As you said, most of our memories don't go back very far and many (most?) of them involve interactions with others. IMHO, who we are (today) is much more a product of nurture (environmental experiences) than nature (our inherited DNA).

Lisa said:

You might have been someone else with different appearances, beliefs, and drives but you were always going to be a human.

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The question is not whether you would be human. The question is whether you would be you, or someone else.

Dittohead not! said:

If a unique DNA determines a unique human being, then the odds of any of us being alive is extremely remote. If a different one of the millions of sperm released at conception had fertilized the egg, you wouldn't be you, but a different person. If your father had used a condom at the critical time, you wouldn't exist at all.

If a human being is an immortal spirit temporarily inhabiting a body, then the DNA only determines physical characteristics and some proclivities. The spirit is in charge, and is, in fact the human being. The body, unique DNA and all, is simply a sophisticated machine that quits working when the spirit leaves.

If we're nothing more than a series of electrical impulses and chemical reactions, then the DNA doesn't matter. We are alive and self aware because we think we are. If that is so, then we don't have self determination. We're along for the ride, but the body, which includes the brain, determines what we do or don't do, what we think or don't think.

If we're a spirit in possession of a body, then does it follow that other animals are also spirits, just with a different sort of body? The term "animal" has it roots in the word Animus, or spirit after all.

And, if we're a spirit, then will we have the chance to be born again?

If we live several lives, I want to be reincarnated as a cat. No, not a feral cat, but an old lady's pampered pet. That would be a nice vacation. I can rest up, and be ready to be a human once again.

What do you think?

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A human - being.

Dittohead not! said:

....f we live several lives, I want to be reincarnated as a cat. No, not a feral cat, but an old lady's pampered pet. That would be a nice vacation. I can rest up, and be ready to be a human once again.

What do you think?

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Neutered, declawed and fed canned fish is not my ideal existence. :mrgreen:

As for "spirit", I'm aligned with some tribal, including Native American, ideologies in thinking everything is linked and tied to the Universe. Maybe it's like cells in a body, maybe it's like raindrops in the ocean. I don't know, but I do feel there is a strong constructiveness among all things in the Universe with living things having even a stronger attachment.

Royal PITA said:

Neutered, declawed and fed canned fish is not my ideal existence. :mrgreen:

As for "spirit", I'm aligned with some tribal, including Native American, ideologies in thinking everything is linked and tied to the Universe. Maybe it's like cells in a body, maybe it's like raindrops in the ocean. I don't know, but I do feel there is a strong constructiveness among all things in the Universe with living things having even a stronger attachment.

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That does make me want to rethink the cat idea.

Dittohead not! said:

That does make me want to rethink the cat idea.

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LOL.

It does remind me of an old joke:

Two best friends agreed that if either of them were to ever die, the surviving one would attempt to make contact with the dead one exactly one year following the death. Billy was killed in an automobile accident two years later. As agreed, his friend Fred tried to make contact with him exactly one year later and succeeded. This is how the conversation went:

Fred: How are things up there?

Billy: Oh, things are just wonderful. We get up every morning and have sex. We then eat breakfast and have more sex. After lunch we usually take a nap then have sex until supper. The last thing we do before going to sleep is have sex. Then the next morning we start all over again.

Fred: That is wonderful. I didn't know that heaven would be like that.

Billy: I'm not in heaven. I'm a jack rabbit in Arizona!!!