Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Non identity politics

  1. #1
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Last Seen
    06-17-19 @ 01:13 PM
    Gender
    Posts
    2

    Non identity politics

    Why do people honestly define themselves as being one thing and not being another? Is this some sort of avengers/star wars alien diversity frenzy?

    Honestly. If we're all human, what good does it do at all to say that I'm a Catholic, Protestant, Nazi, Odinist, Aproditian.

    And what's the point of saying: I'm a man who likes men or women, or I'm a man who likes sex or not?

    Is it just as important as having a favorite color?

    I thought the rainbow was all colors, why are we treating it like it's one color and pitting it against every individual color?

    Yeah identity politics. That's basically all politics are. It's just, regardless of your diverse face, what makes you the same as the other guy and different than the other.

    This is like kindergarten. When I was 5 and my first assignment was to make a list of things I liked and disliked, I was totally confused about the fact that I was supposed to sort parts of creation into things I was supposed to accept or reject and then call myself.

    Our ancestors would be ashamed of our inability to hunt deer, and teach the toddler how to listen to it's parents about why it should run away from a wolf.

    Imagine a world where no one gave a **** about limiting themselves into a plastic imposter shell that they declared to be their actual selves that was now subject to whatever some politician told them they had to get riled up about. Wouldn't that be great?

    God doesn't give a ****. He's proven that over and over. Why don't we just start following his example.

    If you're a Christian you shouldn't give a **** about anything, just like your God. He's trying to show you how to behave: do nothing.

    So if this is the post Christian era, how about making the next era a post definition era?

    Then politicians will have to go back to representing what their people tell them to represent instead of baiting for popular movements that have nothing to do with the area their representing.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Gina; 06-17-19 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Professor TrueScotsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Last Seen
    07-18-19 @ 05:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,816

    Re: Non identity politics

    Quote Originally Posted by jmibnorthern View Post
    Why do people honestly define themselves as being one thing and not being another? Is this some sort of avengers/star wars alien diversity frenzy?
    I do not affirm all expressions and activities and ideologies that come out of Identity Politics, but I don't think its as unreasonable as many people think.

    Is a person who is LGBTQ+ defined completely by that? That's the assertion of people who largely DO NOT KNOW them, what it instead is far, is a recognition that historically this group of people has been oppressed. And that there are existing laws and threats of future law which can hinder their freedom to express this aspect of themselves. Is it not totally natural for people who have these same interests, which emerge out of this common history, whether it be Black, or LGBTQ+, etc.

    The rest sounds pretty deranged, so I think I'm gonna just leave it at that.
    “We have art in order not to die of the truth.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #3
    Guru
    Vadinho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    3,155

    Re: Non identity politics

    Lots of reasons. Seems most of the complaints about identity politics are from people who think discrimination never existed or want to believe it has ended. I could care less if someone calls themselves gay or Latino or African American.
    Trumps news briefings are like a James Joyce novel written in crayon.

  4. #4
    Professor

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    05-27-20 @ 06:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,608

    Re: Non identity politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadinho View Post
    Lots of reasons. Seems most of the complaints about identity politics are from people who think discrimination never existed or want to believe it has ended. I could care less if someone calls themselves gay or Latino or African American.
    For the record, white supremacists are very obsessed over identity.

  5. #5
    Educator
    TheEconomist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Last Seen
    05-24-20 @ 11:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    1,087

    Re: Non identity politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadinho View Post
    It seems most of the complaints about identity politics are from people who think discrimination never existed or want to believe it has ended.
    Anyone with even the faintest knowledge of history knows that discrimination existed. Take a close look at voting patterns on the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments, some of which counted only votes from Nothern Congressmen because the Southern States were considered to have forfeited their right to vote by walking out of Congress. In the supposedly more modern North, Democrats voted on mass against amendments seeking to enforce the ideal of equality before the law. That's after a monstrously destructive war fought over slavery. It took less than a decade for the same party to resort to domestic terrorism and to start enacting discriminatory laws at the State level. The thousands of black people elected after the war at all levels of government under Republican colors all but disappeared.

    Of course, discrimination existed. And, of course, some people are being discriminated against even today. However, it is not comparable to the 1940s, the 1950s or the 1960s. Racism today happens through isolated acts of lunatics: it's one guy who really thinks women shouldn't be laying bricks in his small pitiful business or a rare idiot who thinks they cannot trust their black employees. You don't have a party standing behind them. The full membership of the KKK couldn't fill up a single stadium, even though it was strong by the millions a century ago. Cops no longer conspire to pin the black dude with the crime.

    In the real world, discrimination leaves traces. If it happens, it operates in a specific way by twisting judgments. Just pointing out as some do that engineering is a disproportionately male populated career path is not evidence that women are being actively discouraged from pursuing such a career. Calling this "systemic racism" is a pathetic attempt at covering up the fact their claims more often than not rest on an immaterial form of racism floating about in the social ether and influencing behavior in mysterious ways. As Ben Shapiro said, show me the evidence, hard evidence, of how someone is being unfairly treated because of the color of their skin or their lack of a penis and I will fight it with you because discrimination of that sort is sheer evil. Even Donald Trump literally said "racism is evil," but these idiots prefer to put intentions he never had in his mouth rather than to take him up on the literal meaning of words he actually uttered.


    Do you know why people are so mad over identity politics? Not because they are bigots, but because of the opposite. When I hear interviews of students in college today claiming that minorities should be granted segregated spaces, all I can think about is that they learned nothing. Do you know what it means to consider all people to be equal? It means that when you talk to a minority, you don't think that you're talking to a person of color. It means you think you're talking with a person -- period. The day people feel comfortable about pulling each other's leg with potentially offensive jokes and no one cares is the day people will truly be equal.

    Identity politics is fundamentally racist. You're not mindful of race, gender, sexual orientation or religious affiliation when you believe all people are created equal. You're mindful of individual choices. You're an individualist, not a collectivist who assigns collective guilt and collective oppression. THAT IS the true liberal position. I believe in integration, not segregation and it is not a principle over which compromise is possible.

    So, when I hear "microaggression," "political correctness," "systemic discrimination," or accusations to the effect that everyone on the right is a racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic, xenophobic bigot, I tune out. You cannot make them vomit that blue pill.
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 10-05-19 at 01:45 PM.

  6. #6
    Guru
    Vadinho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    3,155

    Re: Non identity politics

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    Anyone with even the faintest knowledge of history knows that discrimination existed. Take a close look at voting patterns on the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments, some of which counted only votes from Nothern Congressmen because the Southern States were considered to have forfeited their right to vote by walking out of Congress. In the supposedly more modern North, Democrats voted on mass against amendments seeking to enforce the ideal of equality before the law. That's after a monstrously destructive war fought over slavery. It took less than a decade for the same party to resort to domestic terrorism and to start enacting discriminatory laws at the State level. The thousands of black people elected after the war at all levels of government under Republican colors all but disappeared.

    Of course, discrimination existed. And, of course, some people are being discriminated against even today. However, it is not comparable to the 1940s, the 1950s or the 1960s. Racism today happens through isolated acts of lunatics: it's one guy who really thinks women shouldn't be laying bricks in his small pitiful business or a rare idiot who thinks they cannot trust their black employees. You don't have a party standing behind them. The full membership of the KKK couldn't fill up a single stadium, even though it was strong by the millions a century ago. Cops no longer conspire to pin the black dude with the crime.

    In the real world, discrimination leaves traces. If it happens, it operates in a specific way by twisting judgments. Just pointing out as some do that engineering is a disproportionately male populated career path is not evidence that women are being actively discouraged from pursuing such a career. Calling this "systemic racism" is a pathetic attempt at covering up the fact their claims more often than not rest on an immaterial form of racism floating about in the social ether and influencing behavior in mysterious ways. As Ben Shapiro said, show me the evidence, hard evidence, of how someone is being unfairly treated because of the color of their skin or their lack of a penis and I will fight it with you because discrimination of that sort is sheer evil. Even Donald Trump literally said "racism is evil," but these idiots prefer to put intentions he never had in his mouth rather than to take him up on the literal meaning of words he actually uttered.


    Do you know why people are so mad over identity politics? Not because they are bigots, but because of the opposite. When I hear interviews of students in college today claiming that minorities should be granted segregated spaces, all I can think about is that they learned nothing. Do you know what it means to consider all people to be equal? It means that when you talk to a minority, you don't think that you're talking to a person of color. It means you think you're talking with a person -- period. The day people feel comfortable about pulling each other's leg with potentially offensive jokes and no one cares is the day people will truly be equal.

    Identity politics is fundamentally racist. You're not mindful of race, gender, sexual orientation or religious affiliation when you believe all people are created equal. You're mindful of individual choices. You're an individualist, not a collectivist who assigns collective guilt and collective oppression. THAT IS the true liberal position. I believe in integration, not segregation and it is not a principle over which compromise is possible.

    So, when I hear "microaggression," "political correctness," "systemic discrimination," or accusations to the effect that everyone on the right is a racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic, xenophobic bigot, I tune out. You cannot make them vomit that blue pill.
    When the world you want is reality, then we can talk about living together without racism, sexism, bigotry and homophobia. Until then, we will continue to fight the good fight.
    Trumps news briefings are like a James Joyce novel written in crayon.

  7. #7
    Educator
    TheEconomist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Last Seen
    05-24-20 @ 11:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    1,087

    Re: Non identity politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadinho View Post
    When the world you want is a reality, then we can talk about living together without racism, sexism, bigotry, and homophobia. Until then, we will continue to fight the good fight.
    The far-left is not fighting the good fight. They're operating on delusional assumptions which lead to exactly the opposite of fighting against discrimination. They are at least half the problem, if not more.


    If you want hard evidence that discrimination exists, go talk to radicals on the left. Go to them and utter a rightwing opinion on abortion or the gender pay gap if you are man, on the underlying causes of difficulties experienced in black communities if you are white, or on Islam in the Middle East if you are a Christian or an Atheist. The response you will get almost invariably will be that you're not allowed to express yourself openly because you have a penis, your skin color is not the right one or your theology is not the right one. They will call you entire hosts of names, but they will never address for a second the content of what you said. They will not settle for you listening to them; they will actually demand that you repent.

    I have no need to quote such a conversation because it is all too common. It happens every day in the news, on social media and it is routinely reported as the opinion of protestors. We cannot even open a restaurant in Toronto without lunatics protesting on account they disagree with the politics of some of the board members of the corporation which owns the restaurant. We cannot have a movie out in theater without these whackos going nuts. When Bill Maher starts to troll about you on a regular basis when the main target of your attacks are Republicans and Trump, that is a signal that you have gone off the deep end. You fell in the precipice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •