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Thread: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

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    Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.

    I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.

    Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs. Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me. A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.

    But I still think Jesus Christ is real. Not the son of God, but one of the greatest philosophers and teachers the world has ever known.

    Can I prove he was born? No. Can I prove historically, he was a person who existed and lead a life as described in the Bible. No.

    How can I say he is Real.

    The same way Super man is real. The same way the version of George Washington we teach in school is real. Human imagination makes them real. Whether Jesus was a real boy, or the work of Roman Priests, it doesn't matter. His story, and ideas changed the world. Not because people believed he was the son of god. But because of his teachings inspire the best in each of us.

    Anyone who has seriously studied history, will realize, none of it's concrete. The people of each time create their own history based on what they want passed down. Just as we create our perfect versions of ourselves on social media. Because that is what will be recorded of us in history.

    In 2,000 years who is to say, people will believe Captain America was a real person. And would that be such a bad thing?

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    And if we take away all the god stuff, and look at the story, his actions and words. We see why Buddhist consider him a Bodhisattva.

    I wish more people would focus on his teachings, and what his sacrifice truly means.

    Regardless of the existence of God. In the story. Jesus endures extreme torture, and is crucified. And after all that, he asks his father to forgive those who did it to him. And forgives them himself.

    After preaching compassion, turning the other cheek, and forgiveness. In the story, he actually does it.

    Which in our own lives, is a lesson we can all benefit from. A lot of anger in the world, much of it coming from the hearts of Christians.

    So I'd like people to talk about Jesus' philosophy here. What they like about it.

    Not the legacy of the Church, or whether god is real.

    This one is about exploring the message itself.

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtEx. View Post
    I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.
    Splendid! I can't wait!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtEx. View Post
    I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.
    Interesting beliefs... I'm just curious as to how you reconcile, in your mind, intelligent life resulting from a non-intelligent source... and to define what 'quantum chaos' is...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtEx. View Post
    Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs.
    Yes, you can, because they ARE beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtEx. View Post
    Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me.
    Irrelevant. All that makes something a belief is your acceptance of a particular claim/statement/argument as a true.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtEx. View Post
    A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.
    This is a philosophical discussion concerning the particular religion which you have posited. Evidence for it is already present; you simply find certain evidence convincing over other evidence. You will never find any proof, since open functional systems such as Philosophy and Religion don't make use of proofs.

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    Quote Originally Posted by gfm7175 View Post
    Splendid! I can't wait!!


    Interesting beliefs... I'm just curious as to how you reconcile, in your mind, intelligent life resulting from a non-intelligent source... and to define what 'quantum chaos' is...


    Yes, you can, because they ARE beliefs.


    Irrelevant. All that makes something a belief is your acceptance of a particular claim/statement/argument as a true.


    This is a philosophical discussion concerning the particular religion which you have posited. Evidence for it is already present; you simply find certain evidence convincing over other evidence. You will never find any proof, since open functional systems such as Philosophy and Religion don't make use of proofs.
    No one cares...

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtEx. View Post
    No one cares...
    You chose to put it out there... I gave my thoughts on it, and was ready to have a deeper dialogue about it, but it seems like you aren't interested, however...

    Pity...

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    I also think of Jesus as symbolic, and as a mystical savior. However, I believe he was a real person, just not all that great. Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is a good way to get killed.

    I think Jesus was just one of many prophets/mystical healers, and they have existed in all times and all places. Special in being different from most people, but not all that special because there have been shamans, etc., everywhere humans have been.

    Jesus owes his current fame to the Roman Empire. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. At this point, I feel certain that was the only reason any of us heard of him. Rome converted to Christianity because they thought Jesus would help them win wars. And I guess he did, because they won a lot of wars! Then they forced Christianity on the poor pagans that they conquered.

    Of course it was a paganized version of Christianity, not resembling the original Jewish sect.

    I could probably accept Jesus as my savior, without thinking much of what he supposedly taught, and without believing the tons of BS mythology. He is a symbol of the personal helper god, the Higher Self.

    One thing I don't understand though is why it's such a big deal that he was crucified. How many millions of suckers have been crucified, tortured, executed in horrible ways? The fact that he suffered doesn't make him special at all. When people are amazed that he suffered, I feel like they never knew anyone who died from cancer, for example.

    So, I understand why people make a big deal out of the Jesus symbol. But I don't understand why they don't know it's just a symbol.

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    Quote Originally Posted by gfm7175 View Post
    You chose to put it out there... I gave my thoughts on it, and was ready to have a deeper dialogue about it, but it seems like you aren't interested, however...

    Pity...
    your dialogue would fall outside the scope of the thread. Choosing to focus on merit of my beliefs, is not what this thread is about. You want to go ring around the rosey on that start a thread on it.

    This is about the philosophy of Jesus Christ, it's appeal, and how it can be applied to today. Regardless of what belief system anyone holds.

    I'm not going to derail my own thread, just to explain obvious things to you. Not happening.

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    Quote Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
    I also think of Jesus as symbolic, and as a mystical savior. However, I believe he was a real person, just not all that great. Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is a good way to get killed.

    I think Jesus was just one of many prophets/mystical healers, and they have existed in all times and all places. Special in being different from most people, but not all that special because there have been shamans, etc., everywhere humans have been.

    Jesus owes his current fame to the Roman Empire. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. At this point, I feel certain that was the only reason any of us heard of him. Rome converted to Christianity because they thought Jesus would help them win wars. And I guess he did, because they won a lot of wars! Then they forced Christianity on the poor pagans that they conquered.

    Of course it was a paganized version of Christianity, not resembling the original Jewish sect.

    I could probably accept Jesus as my savior, without thinking much of what he supposedly taught, and without believing the tons of BS mythology. He is a symbol of the personal helper god, the Higher Self.

    One thing I don't understand though is why it's such a big deal that he was crucified. How many millions of suckers have been crucified, tortured, executed in horrible ways? The fact that he suffered doesn't make him special at all. When people are amazed that he suffered, I feel like they never knew anyone who died from cancer, for example.

    So, I understand why people make a big deal out of the Jesus symbol. But I don't understand why they don't know it's just a symbol.
    It seems, you've started to study Roman influence on Christianity, but only took a glance at it in a much larger course.

    https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210/lecture-1

    It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.

    It's a long course, and it's Yale, so it's rather advanced, but it's a real look at that period in history.

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtEx. View Post
    I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.

    I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.

    Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs. Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me. A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.

    But I still think Jesus Christ is real. Not the son of God, but one of the greatest philosophers and teachers the world has ever known.

    Can I prove he was born? No. Can I prove historically, he was a person who existed and lead a life as described in the Bible. No.

    How can I say he is Real.

    The same way Super man is real. The same way the version of George Washington we teach in school is real. Human imagination makes them real. Whether Jesus was a real boy, or the work of Roman Priests, it doesn't matter. His story, and ideas changed the world. Not because people believed he was the son of god. But because of his teachings inspire the best in each of us.

    Anyone who has seriously studied history, will realize, none of it's concrete. The people of each time create their own history based on what they want passed down. Just as we create our perfect versions of ourselves on social media. Because that is what will be recorded of us in history.

    In 2,000 years who is to say, people will believe Captain America was a real person. And would that be such a bad thing?
    hehe...two things:

    1) As a Christian, I of course believe in a bit of a different direction than you, but I truly appreciate your approach. There is wisdom to be gained from every religion in the world, even if you don't necessarily believe in the deity, and I sincerely applaud your ability to say "I don't believe in their god, but I see the value of their philosophy". It demonstrates an open mind. Props.

    2) What strain of herb are you enjoying? Seems epic, would like to get some up here....hehe...
    Life's too short...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mashmont View Post
    Winning comes so easily, I barely have to think about it. I've been called the Donald Trump of forum for good reason.

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    Re: Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

    Quote Originally Posted by OlNate View Post
    hehe...two things:

    1) As a Christian, I of course believe in a bit of a different direction than you, but I truly appreciate your approach. There is wisdom to be gained from every religion in the world, even if you don't necessarily believe in the deity, and I sincerely applaud your ability to say "I don't believe in their god, but I see the value of their philosophy". It demonstrates an open mind. Props.

    2) What strain of herb are you enjoying? Seems epic, would like to get some up here....hehe...
    DelaHaze, I got it from BCCannabisStores.com it boasts a colossal 23% thc. And unlike the white widow I got last time that boasted 26%, I believe DelaHaze lives up to it's claim.

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