View Poll Results: What kind of dualist are you?

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  • Substance (Cartesian) Dualist

    0 0%
  • Property Dualist

    4 26.67%
  • Neither (explanation requested)

    11 73.33%
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Thread: What kind of dualist are you?

  1. #11
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Damn you Ramoss, I was going to use that Joke when I saw the thread title.

  2. #12
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    I'm physical and exist in physical reality. Dualism is made up nonsense. Nothing to discuss about it.
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  3. #13
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    I'm physical and exist in physical reality. Dualism is made up nonsense. Nothing to discuss about it.
    Dualism is indeed "made-up nonsense," but the nonsense -- literally what makes no sense -- is your physicalism, physicalist.
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  4. #14
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angel View Post
    Dualism is indeed "made-up nonsense," but the nonsense -- literally what makes no sense -- is your physicalism, physicalist.
    Says the physical being on a physical forum. Next time, have your non physical mind contact mine. Mine will be wearing a non physical pink carnation so you will know it's mine.
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    Says the physical being on a physical forum. Next time, have your non physical mind contact mine. Mine will be wearing a non physical pink carnation so you will know it's mine.
    My non-physical mind has been in contact with your non-physical mind off and on for the past eighteen months. Wake up!
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  6. #16
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    The OP poll is pretty much voided by what Dualism, in philosophical terms, is really about. The relationship between physical properties and mental properties is the core of the question, the splintered explanations on Dualism comes down to realizations based on how physical properties are defined (and measured) that do not translate well into how mental properties are defined (and measured.)

    Dualism in theological terms is radically different, and also does not translate well into philosophical discussion. For philosophy, the term "belief" does not apply to Dualism except when attempting to explain the reasons for the explanations from the core question to those that do not study philosophy.
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    I believe in something like Platonic idealism. And Rupert Sheldrake's field theory. And the Penrose-Hameroff theory of quantum consciousness (they are Platonic idealists).

    And I believe in something like the yoga description of the various levels of substances. And David Bohm's idea of implicate orders.

    And complex systems theory.

    And other things.

  8. #18
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    I'm just coming back to this after about a year of being away. I originally abandoned this thread, because I expected there to be more people here in favor of an actual discussion of the subject of dualism, rather than a bunch of folks advocating for one or another version of monism. Sorry if that sounds a bit peevish, but not that many people responded anyway.

    Really, it comes down to a question of whether one accepts the possibility of the existence of immaterial (brainless) agencies or not. You don't actually have to believe that thoughts are physical things any more than you have to believe that a rainbow is a physical thing. Rainbows exist only insofar as there exist perceivers to interact with them. They don't exist independently of the perception, but maybe thoughts don't exist independently of the nervous systems that reify them. In any case, this is an interesting philosophical question (to me), and I had hoped that a forum devoted to philosophy would attract people with a better appreciation of the actual issues.

    Is it possible for thought to exist independently of physical brain activity? I really doubt that. However, the belief that thought can exist independently of the physical--as an activity that is non-physical--is a belief that a large majority of human beings hold to be true. So it is worth asking the question in the OP. I just felt a little surprised that the materialists (like myself) here weren't more informed about the concepts of property and substance dualism.

  9. #19
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
    I'm just coming back to this after about a year of being away. I originally abandoned this thread, because I expected there to be more people here in favor of an actual discussion of the subject of dualism, rather than a bunch of folks advocating for one or another version of monism. Sorry if that sounds a bit peevish, but not that many people responded anyway.

    Really, it comes down to a question of whether one accepts the possibility of the existence of immaterial (brainless) agencies or not. You don't actually have to believe that thoughts are physical things any more than you have to believe that a rainbow is a physical thing. Rainbows exist only insofar as there exist perceivers to interact with them. They don't exist independently of the perception, but maybe thoughts don't exist independently of the nervous systems that reify them. In any case, this is an interesting philosophical question (to me), and I had hoped that a forum devoted to philosophy would attract people with a better appreciation of the actual issues.

    Is it possible for thought to exist independently of physical brain activity? I really doubt that. However, the belief that thought can exist independently of the physical--as an activity that is non-physical--is a belief that a large majority of human beings hold to be true. So it is worth asking the question in the OP. I just felt a little surprised that the materialists (like myself) here weren't more informed about the concepts of property and substance dualism.
    Rainbows are physical. They consist of water and sunlight interacting in a particular way. If they weren't physical, we couldn't physically see them.

  10. #20
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    Re: What kind of dualist are you?

    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    Rainbows are physical. They consist of water and sunlight interacting in a particular way. If they weren't physical, we couldn't physically see them.
    But a rainbow only exists within the context of an observer, as your last sentence admits. They don't exist in the absence of an observer. So, are they really physical objects? Is any physical object in human experience something that exists independently of some observer? If you give it some serious thought, you may want to keep a bottle of painkillers close by.

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