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What Defines Humans

“Art is the signature of man.”
― G.K. Chesterton, The Everlasting Man (1925), p.20 ​


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The Everlasting Man
https://jesus.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/the-everlasting-man.pdf
 
calamity said:
This subject is always worth philosophical discussion. What exactly separates humans from the rest of the planet, both now and in the past?

At one time, I thought the easy answer was fire. Only humans know how to manipulate fire. And, when it came to separating Homo Sapiens Sapiens From Homo Erectus or Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis, it was how HSS used fire more creatively than the others. In other words, HSS engineered with fire, while the others maybe figured out how to cook with it, but that's about it.

All that said. I find that one other factor, perhaps a skill that is even bigger than fire is language. To be human is to master language. Having language is a huge advantage. It's perhaps the biggest advantage HSS had over anyone out there. Language makes us human? Maybe.

A third biggie is cognitive thought; specifically the ability to think ahead. Understanding cause and effect was paramount to our survival as a species back when we were both slower and weaker than our rivals. How do you beat a faster, stronger thinking upright primate? You out-think him by being more clever and cunning than it can be. That's how.

So, is it our ability to form complex thoughts; the capability to develop strategies by manipulating our environment to more closely suit idealized concepts that makes us human? Maybe it's all three.
Click to expand...

A soul and a thumb.
 
calamity said:
This subject is always worth philosophical discussion. What exactly separates humans from the rest of the planet, both now and in the past?

At one time, I thought the easy answer was fire. Only humans know how to manipulate fire. And, when it came to separating Homo Sapiens Sapiens From Homo Erectus or Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis, it was how HSS used fire more creatively than the others. In other words, HSS engineered with fire, while the others maybe figured out how to cook with it, but that's about it.

All that said. I find that one other factor, perhaps a skill that is even bigger than fire is language. To be human is to master language. Having language is a huge advantage. It's perhaps the biggest advantage HSS had over anyone out there. Language makes us human? Maybe.

A third biggie is cognitive thought; specifically the ability to think ahead. Understanding cause and effect was paramount to our survival as a species back when we were both slower and weaker than our rivals. How do you beat a faster, stronger thinking upright primate? You out-think him by being more clever and cunning than it can be. That's how.

So, is it our ability to form complex thoughts; the capability to develop strategies by manipulating our environment to more closely suit idealized concepts that makes us human? Maybe it's all three.
Click to expand...

Credit cards.



sorry - couldn't resist
 
Davey said:
A soul and a thumb.
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Can you please define 'what is a soul'? How can it be measured?? How can it be detected?? What is the substance of the soul?? What is it made out of ?
 
RAMOSS said:
Can you please define 'what is a soul'? How can it be measured?? How can it be detected?? What is the substance of the soul?? What is it made out of ?
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Soul is the organizing principle of a thing
In human being the soul is mind
It can be experienced by the possessor of mind, but mind is only inferrable in others
The soul is substance
spiritual substance
it is made out of God
 
RAMOSS said:
Can you please define 'what is a soul'? How can it be measured?? How can it be detected?? What is the substance of the soul?? What is it made out of ?
Click to expand...

Couldn’t you have asked me what a thumb is? LOL

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

First of all let's be clear on what the soul is not. Contrary to some new-age teaching, the soul and the spirit are not the same.

God's Word says…

Hebrews 10:25

The Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to dividing asunder of Soul and Spirit and of the joints and Marrow and is a discerner, of the thoughts and the intent of the heart.

I Thessalonians 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The body, soul and Spirit clearly are all separate from each other.

The soul is in between the spirit and the body; it binds the spirit and the body together as one. The spirit rules over the body through the soul and subjects it under God’s power. The body can induce the spirit to love the world through the soul.

The soul is the source of the personality; man’s judgment, intellect, and love all are of the soul. The spirit is the part with which man communicates with the spiritual realm.

NOTE: In 1907 Duncan MacDougall weighed people, then after death weighed them again and concluded 21 grams was the weight of the soul.
 
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Soul Train
 
Davey said:
Couldn’t you have asked me what a thumb is? LOL

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

First of all let's be clear on what the soul is not. Contrary to some new-age teaching, the soul and the spirit are not the same.

God's Word says…

Hebrews 10:25

The Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to dividing asunder of Soul and Spirit and of the joints and Marrow and is a discerner, of the thoughts and the intent of the heart.

I Thessalonians 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The body, soul and Spirit clearly are all separate from each other.

The soul is in between the spirit and the body; it binds the spirit and the body together as one. The spirit rules over the body through the soul and subjects it under God’s power. The body can induce the spirit to love the world through the soul.

The soul is the source of the personality; man’s judgment, intellect, and love all are of the soul. The spirit is the part with which man communicates with the spiritual realm.

NOTE: In 1907 Duncan MacDougall weighed people, then after death weighed them again and concluded 21 grams was the weight of the soul.
Click to expand...

Are you saying then, the soul is just people breathing.. and, you know what the whole 'Duncan Macdougall' so called experiment was highly uncontrolled, didn't bother to have proper controls or accurate weighing, and didn't use all the data, but cherry picked on the ones that he did use??? Not only that, but no one has been able to reproduce the experiment.
 
Davey said:
Couldn’t you have asked me what a thumb is? LOL

Genesis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

First of all let's be clear on what the soul is not. Contrary to some new-age teaching, the soul and the spirit are not the same.

God's Word says…

Hebrews 10:25

The Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to dividing asunder of Soul and Spirit and of the joints and Marrow and is a discerner, of the thoughts and the intent of the heart.

I Thessalonians 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The body, soul and Spirit clearly are all separate from each other.

The soul is in between the spirit and the body; it binds the spirit and the body together as one. The spirit rules over the body through the soul and subjects it under God’s power. The body can induce the spirit to love the world through the soul.

The soul is the source of the personality; man’s judgment, intellect, and love all are of the soul. The spirit is the part with which man communicates with the spiritual realm.

NOTE: In 1907 Duncan MacDougall weighed people, then after death weighed them again and concluded 21 grams was the weight of the soul.
Click to expand...
“21 grams was the weight of the soul.” :lamo
 
RAMOSS said:
Are you saying then, the soul is just people breathing.. and, you know what the whole 'Duncan Macdougall' so called experiment was highly uncontrolled, didn't bother to have proper controls or accurate weighing, and didn't use all the data, but cherry picked on the ones that he did use??? Not only that, but no one has been able to reproduce the experiment.
Click to expand...
Are you being deliberately obtuse in this post? Philologist that you are or present yourself to be, you must be aware of the Latin word anima and its root meaning.
 
calamity said:
“21 grams was the weight of the soul.” :lamo
Click to expand...

Didn't you watch that silly show about his experiment? I think it was even in black and white. I have no idea how much a soul weighs lol
 
Davey said:
Didn't you watch that silly show about his experiment? I think it was even in black and white. I have no idea how much a soul weighs lol
Click to expand...

It weighs about twice as much as any thought.
 
Angel said:
Times the speed of light squared.
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Of all the years I spent contemplating matter and energy, I never once until now thought about the meaning of that fact. If mass is zero, according to that famous equation, there is no energy--but, yet we know that is not true.

I guess I can google around a little today and see what the experts have to say about that.

Well, I'll be damned. There is a logical explanation after all.

Does light have mass?
 
RAMOSS said:
Are you saying then, the soul is just people breathing..
Click to expand...

No. I am saying the soul, the body and the spirit make up the whole person. The soul is the source of the personality; man’s judgment, intellect, and love all are of the soul.

...and, you know what the whole 'Duncan Macdougall' so called experiment was highly uncontrolled, didn't bother to have proper controls or accurate weighing, and didn't use all the data, but cherry picked on the ones that he did use??? Not only that, but no one has been able to reproduce the experiment.
Click to expand...

Yes I do know that.
 
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Davey said:
RAMOSS said:
Are you saying then, the soul is just people breathing..[?QUOTE]

No. I am saying the soul, the body and the spirit make up the whole person. The soul is the source of the personality; man’s judgment, intellect, and love all are of the soul.



Yes I do know that.
Click to expand...


That tells me what you think the soul does... but what is the soul?? WHat is the 'substance' of the soul??? How does the soul work??? Or is the soul metaphysical and merely a concept ?
Click to expand...
 
Davey said:
No. I am saying the soul, the body and the spirit make up the whole person. The soul is the source of the personality; man’s judgment, intellect, and love all are of the soul.



Yes I do know that.
Click to expand...

No, that's just a function within the brain. Nothing more, nothing less; I'm afraid. There is no magic inside of us beyond what a normally function brain produces.
 
calamity said:
No, that's just a function within the brain. Nothing more, nothing less; I'm afraid. There is no magic inside of us beyond what a normally function brain produces.
Click to expand...

This is one of the cross roads of difference of opinion on this matter for both of us.
 
RAMOSS said:
Davey said:
That tells me what you think the soul does... but what is the soul?? WHat is the 'substance' of the soul??? How does the soul work??? Or is the soul metaphysical and merely a concept ?
Click to expand...

The go between the Spirit and body.

Air

I dunno

It's not tangible nor a concept, it's more of the mind.

Aren't you a scientist?
Click to expand...
 
Davey said:
RAMOSS said:
The go between the Spirit and body.

Air

I dunno

It's not tangible nor a concept, it's more of the mind.

Aren't you a scientist?
Click to expand...

If it's not a tangible, then it's a conceptual. That means it's totally metaphysical and philosophical.
Click to expand...
 
calamity said:
This subject is always worth philosophical discussion. What exactly separates humans from the rest of the planet, both now and in the past?
Click to expand...
Generally, a capacity for violence and the means to be good at it.

In terms of animals, I'm no biologist but I think the test is if a human can reproduce with the other...entity.

If you had a healthy specimen from each step in our evolutionary history going back millions of years, you could test each specimen to see if it could reproduce with modern Homosapien. While testing specimens close to modern people, you would have viable offspring. However, as you regressed back, testing specimens from longer and longer ago, at some point the proteins are incompadable and no pregnancy at all will occure.

That's when you've crossed from a race of the same species to a whole different species.
 
calamity said:
All that said. I find that one other factor, perhaps a skill that is even bigger than fire is language. To be human is to master language. Having language is a huge advantage. It's perhaps the biggest advantage HSS had over anyone out there. Language makes us human? Maybe.

A third biggie is cognitive thought; specifically the ability to think ahead. Understanding cause and effect was paramount to our survival as a species back when we were both slower and weaker than our rivals. How do you beat a faster, stronger thinking upright primate? You out-think him by being more clever and cunning than it can be. That's how.

So, is it our ability to form complex thoughts; the capability to develop strategies by manipulating our environment to more closely suit idealized concepts that makes us human? Maybe it's all three.
Click to expand...


Those qualities you mentioned requires a healthy minded human. Not all humans can master language nor reason into the future, have the intelligence to formulate equations and solve them and apply them. These qualities do not fit into every human being. Although the ability to learn to do such things, like the ability to master a language, might be in all humans. To master a language you must first learn the language. If homo sapiens sapiens, or HSS, as you put, are those that can do the above things, where would those homo sapiens fit in if they were unable to? Would they be more in the primordial homo sapiens category?
 
calamity said:
This subject is always worth philosophical discussion. What exactly separates humans from the rest of the planet, both now and in the past?
Click to expand...
This is a science question and the answer is the ability to reproduce. If two organisms can make offspring with each other, then they are races of the same species. If they cannot make offspring with each other, then they are different species from each other. What separates humans from the rest of the species is that humans cannot make ofspring with other species.

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