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Are Public Schools Designed to be Propaganda Systems to Indoctrinate the Young?

Of course mathematics are, they are a vastly important practical skill in any society. But i don't think that if higher mathematics.

I personal think most people waste their money and time going to college. Many people take on massive amounts of debts and end up not being able to find a job all because public schools utterly failed them by telling them that first flipping burgers is a menial job that only dropouts and teen girls that became mom's do. I know a great number of people that love operating restaurants that serve mainly burgers.

And then by telling them the only way to salvation is through college.

Both statements are absolute lies.

But I digress. Algebra and trig serve very few uses. Their first use is as a barrier to higer education. Their second use is to prepare for the next level of barriers to education. Their third and smaller use is to educate people that need it.

The fact that you believe people need to know such useless things to be educated is a testament to indoctrination.

I know many professionals with high levels of Education that have never once had to solve a polynomial. Search mathematics are only useful to a very narrow group of professions.

It is useful as a barrier first and foremost.

I wasn't saying people should learn these things I am saying they are as useful and Modern Life is Advanced algebra and trigonometry to the average person who is not an engineer a physicist or a math teacher.

I disagree literacy in higher math first only exists in people who practice it on a daily basis if you don't you forget it you forget it because it is useless to you she do it in some sort of hobby like astronomy.

It is mainly to keep professors employed I understand you couldn't pay someone enough money to teach people something as useless as calculus unless you got the masses to take it. I remember going to college my father is an engineer and he uses trigonometry daily I was in a trigonometry class struggling first to understand why the hell I was in a trigonometry class why it was required. My father explained it is a hard course and they make it difficult so is to keep the dirty unwashed Heathen masses out of college I disagree I think it's so they can justify having a math department.

The tiny amount of engineering and chemistry students wouldn't be enough to keep a calculus Professor employee it wouldn't be enough to entice people to do it for a living. But requiring search things across the board for everyone is it a waste of money resources time and talent.

try having an affluent life without a college education
that degree tells employers you are trainable
most license requirements, where the license earns one good money, also require a college degree
there are other ways to affluence, however
you can have special entertainment/sports skills, you could inherit or marry into money, you could be good at illegal activities, you could be lucky and win the lottery, or you could launch a business that becomes successful
otherwise, to earn a good living, college had better be in your past or future
and your prospects are even better if you do well in higher mathematics while in college
 
As well as it should be.
this is precisely the indoctrination that I'm against. Next time you visit your GP and he tells you how to be healthy ask him to solve a quadratic equation. If he says no is he all of a sudden not qualified to be a general practitioner?

Being sighted is also a barrier to piloting commercial airliners.
that is a logical one. Being able to tell someone the volume of a Taurus based on a given diameter of a cross-section of it is a completely useless skill one that people don't retain to be a lawyer.

A degree is supposed to mean something,
agreed I'm working on my third one. I have forgotten every scrap of higher math because it is not practical and I do not use it.

not just that you put up with listening to bovine flatulence for four years and regurgitated a fraction of it.
that's just the litmus test to see if you wasted your life and your money and someone else's talent in time learning something that is of no use to you.



It does not take a college education to use a computer, this is trade school stuff. Its takes higher math to design them and most often to program them effectively
You talk to most computers now, this is done using Fast Fourier Transforms. It's not child's play
so maybe computer Engineers is one of the groups that needs to take higher math.

We should be encouraging more people to go into trades because the employment opportunities in the opportunities for higher-income are much greater there.

Plus there isn't this stuff in pig headed to belief that you must sit and waste your time your money everyone's resources and everyone's talents learning nonsense

We are not short of keyboard pounders, we are short of thinkers and creators in ALL fields and math is critical to all of them.
I don't believe we are short on creators we have a plethora of people who are in massive amounts of debt and essentially just indentured servants until they pay it off because they subscribed to this idea that you have to do this crap to be successful.

I have created many of things without trigonometry Only You site ever had for trigonometry was to pass trigonometry class

We are also short on doctors. I said it before I don't need my doctor to know how to tell me the volume of a torus based on the cross section Circle diameter. Such a skill is not required of a nurse or a FBI agent or US Marshal. It is not necessary skills for English teachers or CEOs.

I don't care how many times you say it these skills are largely not necessary. That is why when you leave school and no longer take math classes you quickly forget it you don't use it it is worthless to you. It's only purpose was as a hazing ritual and to keep mathematics professors earning enough that's it.


The world is in no crying need of psychologists, most of them have more problems than their clients. Pre-med involves statistics or the efficacy of meds cannot be appreciated.
so you may need college level calculus to be a pharmaceutical engineer. But not a surgeon.

I tutor math as a volunteer in a local HS and it is truly sad. The teachers rarely understand what they are teaching or why they are.
it isn't sad it is the realization that for most people these higher maths serve zero purpose. That ought to be clear if you can become a mathematics teacher and not grasp it.

They make students take it in the hopes that they can pass a dumbed down SAT test that will allow them to enter a college, learn nothing, and leave saddled with a lifetime of debt.
yes because people who go into fields that aren't centered around the mathematics absolutely must know higher mathematics to do it.

To me this is a good sign it is indicative that the propaganda is losing footholds.
 
try having an affluent life without a college education
I do, I sell my skills.
that degree tells employers you are trainable
most license requirements, where the license earns one good money, also require a college degree
there are other ways to affluence, however
you can have special entertainment/sports skills, you could inherit or marry into money, you could be good at illegal activities, you could be lucky and win the lottery, or you could launch a business that becomes successful
otherwise, to earn a good living, college had better be in your past or future
and your prospects are even better if you do well in higher mathematics while in college
If having vast amounts of wealth is important is suggest real estate or software development Nither of which require much educating
 
this is precisely the indoctrination that I'm against. Next time you visit your GP and he tells you how to be healthy ask him to solve a quadratic equation. If he says no is he all of a sudden not qualified to be a general practitioner?

that is a logical one. Being able to tell someone the volume of a Taurus based on a given diameter of a cross-section of it is a completely useless skill one that people don't retain to be a lawyer.

agreed I'm working on my third one. I have forgotten every scrap of higher math because it is not practical and I do not use it.

that's just the litmus test to see if you wasted your life and your money and someone else's talent in time learning something that is of no use to you.



so maybe computer Engineers is one of the groups that needs to take higher math.

We should be encouraging more people to go into trades because the employment opportunities in the opportunities for higher-income are much greater there.

Plus there isn't this stuff in pig headed to belief that you must sit and waste your time your money everyone's resources and everyone's talents learning nonsense

I don't believe we are short on creators we have a plethora of people who are in massive amounts of debt and essentially just indentured servants until they pay it off because they subscribed to this idea that you have to do this crap to be successful.

I have created many of things without trigonometry Only You site ever had for trigonometry was to pass trigonometry class

We are also short on doctors. I said it before I don't need my doctor to know how to tell me the volume of a torus based on the cross section Circle diameter. Such a skill is not required of a nurse or a FBI agent or US Marshal. It is not necessary skills for English teachers or CEOs.

I don't care how many times you say it these skills are largely not necessary. That is why when you leave school and no longer take math classes you quickly forget it you don't use it it is worthless to you. It's only purpose was as a hazing ritual and to keep mathematics professors earning enough that's it.


so you may need college level calculus to be a pharmaceutical engineer. But not a surgeon.

it isn't sad it is the realization that for most people these higher maths serve zero purpose. That ought to be clear if you can become a mathematics teacher and not grasp it.

yes because people who go into fields that aren't centered around the mathematics absolutely must know higher mathematics to do it.

To me this is a good sign it is indicative that the propaganda is losing footholds.

I'm going to distill all this by asking you the purpose of attending any high level education, college or otherwise, if not to acquire skills that are otherwise difficult or impossible to acquire elsewhere. We don't need to pay a fortune to attend higher ed to listen to, and then regurgitate, various forms of foaming bull feces.

Administrative work and clerical work does not require an advanced education, it requires the ability to get up and go to work, read a screen, and tap tap responses or sit in endless meetings pretending you are accomplishing something. Certainly teaching HS doesn't require an education unless you are teaching some difficult concepts (like trig calculus, physics etc)

Finally what do you do that actually requires a high level of education ?
 
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I'm going to distill all this by asking you the purpose of attending any high level education, college or otherwise, if not to acquire skills that are otherwise difficult or impossible to acquire elsewhere.
first I do not to believe that you can only acquirecertain skills from college. You can acquire skills from anywhere if you are so motivated. College is a formality. A person can know everything and anything about engineering without ever going to college they likely won't be able to get a job unless they go to college so its a formality.

We don't need to pay a fortune to attend higher ed to listen to, and then regurgitate, various forms of foaming bull feces.
the only reason we attend college is to jump over a hurdle. We live in the information age everything you learn at college is free and available at your fingertips.

A college degree is a mere vetting process.

Administrative work and clerical work does not require an advanced education, it requires the ability to get up and go to work, read a screen, and tap tap responses or sit in endless meetings pretending you are accomplishing something. Certainly teaching HS doesn't require an education unless you are teaching some difficult concepts (like trig calculus, physics etc)
you misunderstand yes those things require Advanced education just not necessarily a pedigree.

Finally what do you do that actually requires a high level of education ?
most all things. But education isn't a paper that you hang on the wall. And you can acquire Advanced education through many channels not just by going to college.

But I digress I know what you mean. You asking what do I think requires a college education.

Medicine, science, engineering, and education. And if you want specifically to work for a certain entity and they have set the barrier of employment as some sort of pedigree based on a school you attend or a type of degree you have to have.

Everyone I know is that attended College retrospectively views it is a hoop they had to jump through. Now students in College View it differently and I think that is necessary because people with my attitude drop out.
 
first I do not to believe that you can only acquirecertain skills from college. You can acquire skills from anywhere if you are so motivated. College is a formality. A person can know everything and anything about engineering without ever going to college they likely won't be able to get a job unless they go to college so its a formality.

I am a self educated engineer, I had people holding PhDs reporting to me. I did have a good exposure to calculus, physics, and electronics by other means however. There were some areas in which I was not as competent as I would have liked (network analysis, Fourier Analysis, Laplace transforms, etc) It's difficult to avoid pitfalls without an appreciation of these things.

Buildings and bridges collapse or Airplanes can crash when engineering mistakes are made.


We live in the information age everything you learn at college is free and available at your fingertips.

I agree but few have the desire or motivation, they just want to get the paper.

A college degree is a mere vetting process.

It depends on the degree, a moron can obtain a degree. It does require both effort and brains to obtain a degree in the STEM fields


And you can acquire Advanced education through many channels not just by going to college.

I agree, a good deal of what goes on in our colleges is either non-essential or nonsense. That's why we don't need to be sending average-witted kids to them. We have too many colleges, too many kids attending, too much college debt for too much nonsense etc.

Certainly the education schools could be shut down, proficiency testing and evaluation of instructional efficacy is all that is required.
The more ed-school graduates we have teaching the dumber we become as a nation.

I considered my lack of a formal engineering education to be an asset in many regards. It allowed me more free thinking room and that is why I was always given the task of doing new product development. I taught the degreed engineers how to approach the problem.

In closing you have come full circle to agree with me. Both mathematics and communications skills should be required to enter a collage and colleges should only be teaching the brightest 10%. The rest can go to trade school or receive OJT.

Trade schools should not be considered inferior. Many trades require more native intellect than the average degreed nitwit possesses.
 
I'm not sure schools are purposefully, or rather, thoughtfully, designed to be camps of indoctrination -- but they certainly are.

Schools our main method of social engineering -- our method of raising the future generations to be the most productive yet compliant as possible, but I doubt that the teachers/administrators/school board members look at their role in that manner. Because, they too (most of them) are also products of that social engineering system.


I would say the public schools in good school districts do a pretty good job. The social engineering comes in college where you are under pressure to accept ideas alien to the way you believe (or at least pretend to) in order the get a top grade.
 
I would say the public schools in good school districts do a pretty good job. The social engineering comes in college where you are under pressure to accept ideas alien to the way you believe (or at least pretend to) in order the get a top grade.

You would say this because you have no yardstick except to measure the bad against the worst. Government education cannot be effective, it meets only political objectives, not the objectives of students and parents. The most curious and intellectual students cannot help but be put off by it while only the hopelessly obsequious child thrives.

Most kids want to learn, they want to be challenged, they want to struggle, they want to be inspired. One out of 50 teachers is capable of providing this kind of experience. Somehow these rare exceptions must have avoided the ed-schools where only servile stupidity is inculcated.
 
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I am a self educated engineer, I had people holding PhDs reporting to me. I did have a good exposure to calculus, physics, and electronics by other means however. There were some areas in which I was not as competent as I would have liked (network analysis, Fourier Analysis, Laplace transforms, etc) It's difficult to avoid pitfalls without an appreciation of these things.

Buildings and bridges collapse or Airplanes can crash when engineering mistakes are made.




I agree but few have the desire or motivation, they just want to get the paper.



It depends on the degree, a moron can obtain a degree. It does require both effort and brains to obtain a degree in the STEM fields




I agree, a good deal of what goes on in our colleges is either non-essential or nonsense. That's why we don't need to be sending average-witted kids to them. We have too many colleges, too many kids attending, too much college debt for too much nonsense etc.

Certainly the education schools could be shut down, proficiency testing and evaluation of instructional efficacy is all that is required.
The more ed-school graduates we have teaching the dumber we become as a nation.

I considered my lack of a formal engineering education to be an asset in many regards. It allowed me more free thinking room and that is why I was always given the task of doing new product development. I taught the degreed engineers how to approach the problem.
This discussion always kind of bounces around between whether or not we need more of this kind of educated person or whether or not you can make money doing this. I think the former should be of low consideration for someone trying to get into any field. There was a time in my life when I felt that I needed to be out there doing good and making the world a better place through my vocation. I was unhappy I didn't make any money and I was terribly unsuccessful. I scraped by on my first skill that had nothing to do with any higher colleges I've taken. When I learned that first skill I was not thinking about how I could benefit the world or what my work meant. I didn't care because people shouldn't care about that. I cared if I could make money and be successful doing it. Those are the considerations that should be first and foremost on anyone's mind before pursuing any kind of secondary education.

In closing you have come full circle to agree with me. Both mathematics and communications skills should be required to enter a collage and colleges should only be teaching the brightest 10%.
I never disagreed with that. I think one of my very first statements was 95% of the reason why you take higher math it's so you can pass the next class. Once you're out of class and you're not going to be an engineer a physicist or a chemist you have no use for that whatsoever. So largely. I don't think there is any reason to teach algebra in high school. Most students have completely forgotten everything there was to it by the time they take college algebra anyway. Because it is a pointless math that nobody uses unless there an engineer a physicist or a chemist.
The rest can go to trade school or receive OJT.
Or they can go into the military that is a fantastic opportunity and I don't think enough people consider it.

Trade schools should not be considered inferior. Many trades require more native intellect than the average degreed nitwit possesses.
absolutely agreed but honestly I don't think trade schools are viewed as inferior. I just don't think a lot of people consider them who would really Excel and become very successful at a trade. Mostly because our Public Schools think Academia should be everyone's raison d'etre.

Where there are some academic parts to trade school and I do believe they are necessary it's mostly an effort to show you how to build a skill.

But I also think one of the major problems and our Public Schools and in our culture is that we tell people to do what they're passionate about and that's terrible advice. You should do what your aptitude suggest build skills and then learn to be passionate about doing what you do.

Very few people in this world are born to be doctors or fireman or engineers. But those that are that's all they can do. They should go do that. For the rest of us that never had a very lucrative passion should learn how to be passionate about the things we do.
 
I would say the public schools in good school districts do a pretty good job. The social engineering comes in college where you are under pressure to accept ideas alien to the way you believe (or at least pretend to) in order the get a top grade.
I believe you are correct that assessment and this is precisely why education has become less valuable.

College should not be teaching you to accept anything it should be teaching you to question everything even things you have accepted as true all of your life.

But in order to come out of that and still be the individual you are although improved you have to be strong-willed stubborn and skeptical. Most people aren't these things. I found that most people will just go along with what is popular or suggested to them by people they view as smarter than they are. Which in and of itself is not a bad idea. It will help you move forward in life but at a time in college was not right for that type of person. But now they have really stop being (assuming they ever were) a place to make you question everything. They want to appeal to the masses to rake in more cash. They are now in the business of selling "I are smarterest" status two people willing to go into debt to purchase it.
 
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