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Thread: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

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    Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    "J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings trilogy is a genuine masterpiece. The most widely read and influential fantasy epic of all time, it is also quite simply one of the most memorable and beloved tales ever told. Originally published in 1954, The Lord of the Rings set the framework upon which all epic/quest fantasy since has been built. Through the urgings of the enigmatic wizard Gandalf, young hobbit Frodo Baggins embarks on an urgent, incredibly treacherous journey to destroy the One Ring. This ring -- created and then lost by the Dark Lord, Sauron, centuries earlier -- is a weapon of evil, one that Sauron desperately wants returned to him. With the power of the ring once again his own, the Dark Lord will unleash his wrath upon all of Middle-earth. The only way to prevent this horrible fate from becoming reality is to return the Ring to Mordor, the only place it can be destroyed. Unfortunately for our heroes, Mordor is also Sauron's lair. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is essential reading not only for fans of fantasy but for lovers of classic literature as well." -Goodreads.com

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Quote Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
    Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    "J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings trilogy is a genuine masterpiece. The most widely read and influential fantasy epic of all time, it is also quite simply one of the most memorable and beloved tales ever told. Originally published in 1954, The Lord of the Rings set the framework upon which all epic/quest fantasy since has been built. Through the urgings of the enigmatic wizard Gandalf, young hobbit Frodo Baggins embarks on an urgent, incredibly treacherous journey to destroy the One Ring. This ring -- created and then lost by the Dark Lord, Sauron, centuries earlier -- is a weapon of evil, one that Sauron desperately wants returned to him. With the power of the ring once again his own, the Dark Lord will unleash his wrath upon all of Middle-earth. The only way to prevent this horrible fate from becoming reality is to return the Ring to Mordor, the only place it can be destroyed. Unfortunately for our heroes, Mordor is also Sauron's lair. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is essential reading not only for fans of fantasy but for lovers of classic literature as well." -Goodreads.com
    Can you post a link and perhaps your own answer to the question ? The OP doesn't give us much to chew on.


    "Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
    Quote Originally Posted by RileyCoyote View Post
    The democrats are the party of the KKK, Jim Crow, against civil right act of 1964....own it, sorry the truth hurts your feelings.

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisero View Post
    Can you post a link and perhaps your own answer to the question ? The OP doesn't give us much to chew on.
    Yes, point taken.

    I originally posted this topic in a separate debate site. Here is a relevant argument posted from a member there (who I will keep anonymous) and then my response to them:

    Anonymous: Yes. In fact it is important to note that Orcs are an extremely noble race throughout mythology, they live to truly allow every single being (Orc or not) thrive in its own way. They were possessed and misled by corrupt warlocks and somehow we think it's ok they get stomped on and slaughtered in the masses...
    Meanwhile we think elves, the literal Illuminati of the LOTR world, are somehow the 'good guys' because they enforce order by brutalising any species that dares question their authority... Then again, the Bible was exactly the same story as was the Qur'an so this trend doesn't shock me.
    People like to mistake anarchy for evil and tyranny for heroism so let them.

    xMathFanx (in response to Anonymous): "Anonymous (Quoting): In fact it is important to note that Orcs are an extremely noble race throughout mythology, they live to truly allow every single being (Orc or not) thrive in its own way. They were possessed and misled by corrupt warlocks and somehow we think it's ok they get stomped on and slaughtered in the masses..."

    xMathFanx: Exactly. Personally, I like LOTR as a story a lot, however when you stop, step back, and think about it, the way they (the "good guys") view the orcs and killing the orcs is psychopathic.
    Here are a couple of links on the History of the Orcs:
    1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXVkWxura1Q
    2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbHF2yp844E
    Furthermore, there was a novel published titled "The Last Ringbearer" that tells the story of Middle-Earth/LOTR from Mordor's perspective (the losers side). Here is a link to the book and a short article on it:
    1. https://www.salon.com/2011/02/15/lastringbearer/
    2. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...ast-ringbearer

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Quote Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
    Yes, point taken.

    I originally posted this topic in a separate debate site. Here is a relevant argument posted from a member there (who I will keep anonymous) and then my response to them:
    I chuckled. If you want to protect a pseudo, don't quote their text. I found the guys profile on CreateDebate in under 1 second.

    Yes. In fact it is important to note that Orcs are an extremely noble race throughout mythology, they live to truly allow every single being (Orc or not) thrive in its own way. They were possessed and misled by corrupt warlocks and somehow we think it's ok they get stomped on and slaughtered in the masses...
    Meanwhile we think elves, the literal Illuminati of the LOTR world, are somehow the 'good guys' because they enforce order by brutalising any species that dares question their authority... Then again, the Bible was exactly the same story as was the Qur'an so this trend doesn't shock me.
    People like to mistake anarchy for evil and tyranny for heroism so let them.
    I think in most fantasy stories, it's better to have an ultimate bad guy and an ultimate good guy. Light vs darkness is a model that suits well this genre. If the "bad guys" are actually kind of nice and the "good guys" are actually kind of bad (like real life), then it takes out the epic side of the final battle.

    However, it's important to note that these are stories. Real life characters, political parties and cultures are far more nuanced.

    I would gladly watch your videos, but I'm lazy and can not turn on the sound on my computer for the moment.


    "Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
    Quote Originally Posted by RileyCoyote View Post
    The democrats are the party of the KKK, Jim Crow, against civil right act of 1964....own it, sorry the truth hurts your feelings.

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Quote Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
    Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    "J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings trilogy is a genuine masterpiece. The most widely read and influential fantasy epic of all time, it is also quite simply one of the most memorable and beloved tales ever told. Originally published in 1954, The Lord of the Rings set the framework upon which all epic/quest fantasy since has been built. Through the urgings of the enigmatic wizard Gandalf, young hobbit Frodo Baggins embarks on an urgent, incredibly treacherous journey to destroy the One Ring. This ring -- created and then lost by the Dark Lord, Sauron, centuries earlier -- is a weapon of evil, one that Sauron desperately wants returned to him. With the power of the ring once again his own, the Dark Lord will unleash his wrath upon all of Middle-earth. The only way to prevent this horrible fate from becoming reality is to return the Ring to Mordor, the only place it can be destroyed. Unfortunately for our heroes, Mordor is also Sauron's lair. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is essential reading not only for fans of fantasy but for lovers of classic literature as well." -Goodreads.com
    Dwarves, no Blacks, hardly a woman in a leadership role.... it's obvious that the Inklings were not politically correct. I think the books must be rewritten to conform with decency.
    Last edited by joG; 12-28-17 at 03:44 AM.

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Was Gollum pure evil? Where was Feanor on the morality scale, or Hurin, or Thorin, or Denethor, or Boromir? There's plenty of moral complexity in the LoTR universe that adds texture to the ultimate good v evil tale.
    And there's no need to worry since everything is mostly nothing;
    or so I'm told by an angel in a white lab coat

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Was Gollum pure evil? Where was Feanor on the morality scale, or Hurin, or Thorin, or Denethor, or Boromir? There's plenty of moral complexity in the LoTR universe that adds texture to the ultimate good v evil tale.
    However, Sauron was pure evil. The ultimate nemesis in fantasy tales must be pure evil. It makes them quite charming.


    "Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
    Quote Originally Posted by RileyCoyote View Post
    The democrats are the party of the KKK, Jim Crow, against civil right act of 1964....own it, sorry the truth hurts your feelings.

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cisero View Post
    I chuckled. If you want to protect a pseudo, don't quote their text. I found the guys profile on CreateDebate in under 1 second.
    Good point Lol

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Was Gollum pure evil? Where was Feanor on the morality scale, or Hurin, or Thorin, or Denethor, or Boromir? There's plenty of moral complexity in the LoTR universe that adds texture to the ultimate good v evil tale.
    The fundamental point is that there is (presented to be) no moral ambiguity when it comes to who is right and who is wrong in the Battle for Middle Earth (Mordor and Isangaurd are most definitely wrong) and essentially any tactics used by the "good" side against the "bad" are deemed appropriate without question (the Orcs and such are viewed as sub-humanoid creatures--demons, creatures of Hell essentially).

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    Re: Is "The Lord of the Rings" Harmful for promoting a Good vs Pure Evil Narrative?

    If the lord of the rings was about pure evil vs pure good, explain Golum.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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