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Forgiveness is Crap [W:266]

Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Here is an example of amazing forgiveness practiced by the Amish!
I can't think of a situation that could be any more difficult to forgive
then this one!

Amish Grace and Forgiveness

https://lancasterpa.com/amish/amish-forgiveness/

Amish Girls Shot in an Amish School

Following the tragic Amish school shooting of 10 young schoolgirls in a one-room Amish school in October 2006, reporters from throughout the world invaded Lancaster County, PA to cover the story. (You can read the full story of the Amish school shooting here.) However, in the hours and days following the shooting a different, an unexpected story developed.
Amish Forgiveness in Response to School Shooting

In the midst of their grief over this shocking loss, the Amish community didn’t cast blame, they didn’t point fingers, they didn’t hold a press conference with attorneys at their sides. Instead, they reached out with grace and compassion toward the killer’s family.

The afternoon of the shooting an Amish grandfather of one of the girls who was killed expressed forgiveness toward the killer, Charles Roberts. That same day Amish neighbors visited the Roberts family to comfort them in their sorrow and pain.

Later that week the Roberts family was invited to the funeral of one of the Amish girls who had been killed. And Amish mourners outnumbered the non-Amish at Charles Roberts’ funeral.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

it's just me said:
Someone once said that not forgiving is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
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Sounds like a self-pitying drama queen.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

nota bene said:
But you've said previously, "Reprisal my dear is almost always an option, its simply a matter of price. The only time its not an option is when to perpetrator of the wrong is dead, then your problem is solved. So why aren't you going to retaliate against your mother-in-law? She's not dead. Why is she spared your reprisal?



I specified a permanent estrangement from your child, not a petty squabble.



You seem to think that financial harm is somehow worse than permanent estrangement from your child. I don't see how. It's only money. But okay, the mother-in-law has deliberately caused a permanent physical injury to your child. Let's just say she gouged out an eye while high on meth. What are you going to do--gouge out her eye?

I'm thinking of a very powerful essay written by Anna Quinlan some years ago, "The Death Penalty's False Promise: An Eye for an Eye." In it she discusses the horrific murder of a little girl held hostage and then tortured by a neighbor. Her point is that even if you did to this man what he did to the child, it still wouldn't be the same. An adult cannot experience as an innocent, trusting child.

And if you torture, rape, and kill someone who has tortured, raped, and killed, what does that make you?
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And it doesn't bring the child back.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Bodhisattva said:
Accepting and letting go along with wishing the offender well for the future.
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Forgiveness is not about wishing the offender well for the future. It's saying I don't hate you for what you did.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Aristaeus said:
Forgiveness is not about wishing the offender well for the future. It's saying I don't hate you for what you did.
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Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Bodhisattva said:
Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness
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That's a possible outcome of forgiveness, but not a requirement.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Aristaeus said:
That's a possible outcome of forgiveness, but not a requirement.
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I think it is a requirement. Without that component it is merely acceptance.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Bodhisattva said:
Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as vengefulness, with an increased ability to wish the offender well

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgiveness
Click to expand...

If there is any "wishing the offender well" in forgiveness, it's wishing they see the error in their ways and turn their lives around. As for what forgiveness does for the offended, it is actually quite healthy.

How Forgiveness Benefits Your Health: Forgiving Wrongdoers Can Expand Physical Fitness
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Bodhisattva said:
It is healthy...

It is a delusional distraction (for big offenses) .
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It's just letting go so that resentment doesn't eat you alive and letting someone else take control of the situation. Religious people hand it to god. Non-religious hand it to the cosmos, fate, Karma, the justice system, whatever.

Some do what Goldman did to OJ--sue the bastard, and then wait for him to hang himself with his own rope.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Bodhisattva said:
What are your thoughts?

Simply put... if a person steals your wallet because they need money... forgiving is reasonable. If a person seriously betrays you or murders your kid or something "forgiving" them is delusional garbage.
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Forgiveness is not delusional. I am attaching two videos below. One tells the story behind a song written and sung by Matthew West. Can you relate to this mother and can you relate to Eric? This is a great showing of forgiveness!

First the story behind the song:

Then, the song:
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

LesGovt said:
Forgiveness is not delusional. I am attaching two videos below. One tells the story behind a song written and sung by Matthew West. Can you relate to this mother and can you relate to Eric? This is a great showing of forgiveness!

First the story behind the song: ...proselytising link deleted...

Then, the song: ...proselytising link deleted...
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So you're going to shill Christian music and Logicman is going to shill the books?

Why are you linking to these inane and deluded platitudes from someone that earns a living singing what they want to hear to Christians?
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

William Rea said:
So you're going to shill Christian music and Logicman is going to shill the books?

Why are you linking to these inane and deluded platitudes from someone that earns a living singing what they want to hear to Christians?
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Since you asked so politely, I will answer. The story of the song was true. I believe in truth. You may not like this book, but here is what the Bible says:

37 “'You are a king, then!' said Pilate.

Jesus answered, 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.'” - John 18:37
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

LesGovt said:
Since you asked so politely, I will answer. The story of the song was true. I believe in truth. You may not like this book, but here is what the Bible says:

37 “'You are a king, then!' said Pilate.

Jesus answered, 'You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.'” - John 18:37
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I am not interested in what your book of delusions says about anything; especially when you, and others, very disrespectfully keep trying to wedge your mental illness into the conversation at every opportunity. I am using the term 'mental illness' here specifically because this nonsense is preventing you from interacting with humanity in any normal or rational sense so it is having an adverse effect on your being. You cannot establish this fantasy as even approximating to reality let alone as any kind of 'truth'.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Moderator's Warning:
Answering the OPs question regarding ones thoughts by referring to a religious view of forgiveness is acceptable. However, note that demanding others accept such views or not engaging in substantive back and forth...such as simply declaring that it's "the truth" alongside bible quotes as evidence of that...is not okay within the philosophy forum when done repetitively.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Zyphlin said:
Moderator's Warning:
Answering the OPs question regarding ones thoughts by referring to a religious view of forgiveness is acceptable. However, note that demanding others accept such views or not engaging in substantive back and forth...such as simply declaring that it's "the truth" alongside bible quotes as evidence of that...is not okay within the philosophy forum when done repetitively.
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I apologize for posting the scripture. It was not intended to be proof of anything. The video shows a truth about forgiveness. Was the video acceptable?
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

LesGovt said:
I apologize for posting the scripture. It was not intended to be proof of anything. The video shows a truth about forgiveness. Was the video acceptable?
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You claimed that the scripture proved a truth. That was your intention.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

zyzygy said:
You claimed that the scripture proved a truth. That was your intention.
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If that is claiming the truth, so be it. I will stay out of this part of DP. Y'all have fun now.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

LesGovt said:
If that is claiming the truth, so be it. I will stay out of this part of DP. Y'all have fun now.
Click to expand...

Yes, we do have fun in the real world. Enjoy the religion forum and preach away to your heart's content.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

What aboot you forgive (or you just stopped caring) and then suddenly you run into this bully from high school, and your next urge is to just beat the crap out of him (which is what you do).

Then what???
 
Bodhisattva said:
What are your thoughts?

Simply put... if a person steals your wallet because they need money... forgiving is reasonable. If a person seriously betrays you or murders your kid or something "forgiving" them is delusional garbage.
Click to expand...

I saw in a movie that a convicted criminal threw himself on the mercy of the court.

He begged the judge to forgive him.

The judge said that he understood the plea and that he did forgive him.

He then went on to sentence him to death by hanging.

Forgiving the offender and delivering punishment for the offense are not mutually exclusive.
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Desert Storm said:
What aboot you forgive (or you just stopped caring) and then suddenly you run into this bully from high school, and your next urge is to just beat the crap out of him (which is what you do).

Then what???
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“Grudges are for those who insist that they are owed something; forgiveness, however, is for those who are substantial enough to move on.” ― Criss Jami
 
Re: Forgiveness is Crap

Elvira said:
“Grudges are for those who insist that they are owed something; forgiveness, however, is for those who are substantial enough to move on.” ― Criss Jami
Click to expand...
OK Miss Forgiveness..... lovey dovey :2razz:

Lets see how "forgiving" you are when someone invades your home, steals all your money, rapes not one BUT BOTH of your 12-year old kids, then kills your husband, and then rapes both your dead kids again a few dozen times for good measure.

Now tell me, are you gonna be all Sweetie Pie and "Ms. I love you and I forgive you" , because that to me sounds like a giant crock of shyte!!
 
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