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Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

zyzygy said:
I would need to see evidence that proved the existence of a god or gods before I would consider that.
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You woke up this morning, a miracle or an accident?

"Cogito ergo sum" - Descartes

"We are a figment of another's imagination. We do not exist. I am invisible." - Ralph Ellison

The only proof of existence is time. - me

"There is no proof, there will never be proof, we decide based on belief...." Emil Zola in defense of Alfred Dreyfus
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

tosca1 said:
:roll:

Those have been dealt with already! Including atheism goes against science. Go and do your homework.
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Yep, they sure have. By being shown up for what they are and you being shown up for what you are in posting those lies.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

Quag said:
You have just added a step, a supernatural step that can neither be proven or unproven. It is not more logical, but it does make some people happy having an answer even if there is no way to know if is the correct one. That is why it is faith based and not evidence based claim.
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How else is something to be created out of nothing, other than a transcendent God? I realize that certain people have a hatred towards Christianity, and I realize that other people are indifferent about religion but instead choose to live in a purely logical way, but there are certain things than man just doesn't have the exact knowledge of, and never will... it doesn't prove nor disprove the existence of God, but it has personally lead me to believe that there is something greater than myself out there, and that I have more of a purpose on this Earth than just "eat, drink, and be merry" or "do good things because society says to do so" ... I am also here to help people find God... If I can get just one person to seriously consider opening up their heart to the Christian God, and to eventually believe, I would be overjoyed... But if not, everybody has free will and can make their own choices on what to believe.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

gfm7175 said:
How else is something to be created out of nothing, other than a transcendent God? I realize that certain people have a hatred towards Christianity, and I realize that other people are indifferent about religion but instead choose to live in a purely logical way, but there are certain things than man just doesn't have the exact knowledge of, and never will... it doesn't prove nor disprove the existence of God, but it has personally lead me to believe that there is something greater than myself out there, and that I have more of a purpose on this Earth than just "eat, drink, and be merry" or "do good things because society says to do so" ... I am also here to help people find God... If I can get just one person to seriously consider opening up their heart to the Christian God, and to eventually believe, I would be overjoyed... But if not, everybody has free will and can make their own choices on what to believe.
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It is not a "hatred toward Christianity", particularly inasmuch there seems to be just a few differences in definition as to what is exactly Christianity.

Seems to us on the outside that there is more animosity between groups which both name themselves as Christian than there is from the non-believing team.

So, you are a minister in one of those evangelical churches?
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

OldFatGuy said:
You woke up this morning, a miracle or an accident?
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I would say because of evolution and my parents.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

Logicman said:
When you unbelievers can bust the Resurrection you might have some credibility on that too.
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Here's something that might get you thinking. Do you need to prove that Joseph Smith made up that Mormon crap, or can we just agree it's all silly and has no proof? What about Islam? Do you need to disprove it or can we agree? How about if you can go out and disprove those religions enough so that those religions disband and quit, I'll gladly agree that we should also do the same for yours. But as of right now I see about 100 types of religion and all of them screaming "you can't prove me wrong!". It's laughable if it weren't also so dour.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

tosca1 said:
Well, why didn't you say it as straight forward as that?

See? That's simple and clear.
You don't believe in a god. That's the belief of an atheist - as opposed to a theist's belief that
he believes in God.

So, yes I agree with you.....you're an atheist.
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Well of course I am. And I've never stated anything to the contrary. I merely pointed out that your claim that atheism forces someone to the position that a god can't exist is false. I can not believe in a god and also believe that's possible that there could be a god. You claimed otherwise. As I said from the beginning, you are playing with the definitions in a reckless manner.

Lets settle it. I don't believe there is a god that exists, but I don't claim it's impossible that there is a god. I just don't have any evidence to believe such a claim, and generally believe that it's very likely that the claim is false.

Am I an atheist?
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

gfm7175 said:
How else is something to be created out of nothing, other than a transcendent God? I realize that certain people have a hatred towards Christianity, and I realize that other people are indifferent about religion but instead choose to live in a purely logical way, but there are certain things than man just doesn't have the exact knowledge of, and never will... it doesn't prove nor disprove the existence of God, but it has personally lead me to believe that there is something greater than myself out there, and that I have more of a purpose on this Earth than just "eat, drink, and be merry" or "do good things because society says to do so" ... I am also here to help people find God... If I can get just one person to seriously consider opening up their heart to the Christian God, and to eventually believe, I would be overjoyed... But if not, everybody has free will and can make their own choices on what to believe.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't god be non-denominational and not care about it's creation?
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

gfm7175 said:
It might have something to do with the fact that people watched him get crucified, watched him get placed into the tomb, saw that his body was gone after three days, and saw him walking around and alive once again before he finally ascended into heaven?
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Well, there are those claims. However, none of the people who wrote about it actually saw it. There is a difference between a claim, and being able to support a claim.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

tosca1 said:
:roll:

Those have been dealt with already! Including atheism goes against science. Go and do your homework.


Or......


Grab a cold one......and just enjoy your popcorn.
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Atheism does not go against science. Science does not require belief in god(s) and has absolutely nothing to say about god(s). You fail to see the distinction between science and the people who employ the scientific method. A scientist can believe in elves and fairies but this does not mean elves and fairies are subject to science. Scientists can believe whatever they want, but science does not concern itself with beliefs in imaginary things, just facts. Science cannot and does not have anything to say about god(s) as long as god(s) are defined as being supernatural. Science cannot study the supernatural. It is impossible.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

gfm7175 said:
Pretty much... But Atheists can't come up with a logically flowing explanation of the creation of the universe, while Christianity offers that logically flowing explanation... Can I prove that the Bible's creation account is true? No I can't. Faith is definitely necessary, but on a purely logical level, I happen to be more convinced by the idea of a transcendent God creating the universe than I am convinced by the idea of the universe somehow coming into existence without having a definite beginning cause...

Think of it like following a recipe... Christianity allows one to begin at step 1, which is a Creator God (who exists outside of the confinements of time). Atheism, in my mind, is always starting at step 2, starting with things which had to be created somehow, but never going back in time enough to arrive at step 1 and explain how those things were created. That's in part why Christianity makes more sense in my mind... But the growth and devotion to the Christian faith is definitely just that... faith based.
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Good thing that we don't explain everything that way. We never would have advanced intellectually at all. Every explanation of the physical world would be explained simply as god did it.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

gfm7175 said:
Pretty much... But Atheists can't come up with a logically flowing explanation of the creation of the universe, while Christianity offers that logically flowing explanation... Can I prove that the Bible's creation account is true? No I can't. Faith is definitely necessary, but on a purely logical level, I happen to be more convinced by the idea of a transcendent God creating the universe than I am convinced by the idea of the universe somehow coming into existence without having a definite beginning cause...

Think of it like following a recipe... Christianity allows one to begin at step 1, which is a Creator God (who exists outside of the confinements of time). Atheism, in my mind, is always starting at step 2, starting with things which had to be created somehow, but never going back in time enough to arrive at step 1 and explain how those things were created. That's in part why Christianity makes more sense in my mind... But the growth and devotion to the Christian faith is definitely just that... faith based.
Click to expand...

There is one thing about that Christian explanation ... It has no objective evidence for it. An explanation about the physical world with no model to test, and no objective evidence for is basically no explanation at all.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

tosca1 said:
:lol:

That's kinda like a roundabout way of asking - who created your God?

God exists outside His creation. God does not have to be created.
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And where is this mythical "outside" and how do you know about it?
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

tosca1 said:
BOOM!

Read! :lol:

Science isn't saying God doesn't exists. In fact, in its own way - it says the possibility is evident that He does! THEISTIC EVOLUTION!

That still boils down to creation by God!


So, tell me......where does that leave atheism?

What supports atheism?

If you still couldn't get such simple logic - what more can I say?



Maybe, it's better for you to just eat popcorn, and watch?
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No, science is not saying that at all. Scientists who are theistic believers are saying that as long as their belief does not conflict with science then science does not disagree with their belief. It is when beliefs differ and depart from science that science rejects those beliefs. But those beliefs are not part of science, they are only beliefs held by certain scientists and have absolutely nothing to do with science. Science is just playing nice with those believers who accept all scientific ideas and don't ascribe to beliefs that conflict with science, such as creationism. It is not an endorsement by science in any way that there is factual scientific evidence backing the belief in theistic evolution. If there was such evidence, science would present it and study it. And science does not do this nor is theistic evolution a legitimate branch of the scientific study of evolution. It is merely a belief devoid of evidence that does not conflict with science but does not add to scientific knowledge.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

Quag said:
What if I wear a sweater I knitted?

(sorry had to be asked)
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Nothing says the Creator couldn't come inside His creation.
Jesus came down to earth to be among the people.


Btw, were you in the sweater as you were knitting it?
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

roughdraft274 said:
Well of course I am. And I've never stated anything to the contrary. I merely pointed out that your claim that atheism forces someone to the position that a god can't exist is false. I can not believe in a god and also believe that's possible that there could be a god. You claimed otherwise.
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If you say you CANNOT believe in a God - that alone, forces you to the position that God can't exists.


To say that you believe that it's possible that there could be a God - is another matter.
It could mean that your "faith" as an atheist is shaken!

Yes, on one hand you're saying you cannot believe in the existence of God....yet on the other hand you also say, it's possible that He exists.
The shadow of a doubt had reared its head. You're now skeptic about His non-existence.
You're no longer sure in your conviction that God cannot possibly exists.




Lets settle it. I don't believe there is a god that exists, but I don't claim it's impossible that there is a god.
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You can't seem to shake off the other side of the coin that says - it's possible God exists.
How else can your statement be taken?




I just don't have any evidence to believe such a claim, and generally believe that it's very likely that the claim is false.

Am I an atheist?
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According to Merriam Webster, an agnostic is "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly :
one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god."

Do you see yourself in that definition?

Only you can honestly answer that. To do some soul-searching and determine where you truly belong now -
as an atheist, or as an agnostic.
 
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re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

tosca1 said:
Nothing says the Creator couldn't come inside His creation.
Jesus came down to earth to be among the people.
Click to expand...

729.gif
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

Somerville said:
It is not a "hatred toward Christianity", particularly inasmuch there seems to be just a few differences in definition as to what is exactly Christianity.

Seems to us on the outside that there is more animosity between groups which both name themselves as Christian than there is from the non-believing team.

So, you are a minister in one of those evangelical churches?
Click to expand...

You're right, there's plenty of different denominations and each have their own differences and what not in their beliefs.

I think there's some level of animosity from both.

I am not.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

devildavid said:
Why couldn't god be non-denominational and not care about it's creation?
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I guess I don't so much view him as "denominational", but I just feel that certain denominations do follow the Bible more closely than other denominations do.

Since he sent his only begotten son into the world to die a gruesome death on a cross for us and for all our sins, I think it would be hard to argue that he doesn't care about his creation.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

RAMOSS said:
Well, there are those claims. However, none of the people who wrote about it actually saw it. There is a difference between a claim, and being able to support a claim.
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That's generally true, and they did write it afterwards... But the Christian belief is that it wasn't actually these men writing down the words that they did... It was God writing down these words through these men... Which again, how can I prove that on an Earthly level? I don't know how to do that... I just personally know it to be true because, through faith, I believe the Bible to be true, and the Bible says that God was the ultimate author of it. "All scripture is God-breathed"... I am fully aware of how "insane" that sounds from an Earthly standpoint, or for someone who isn't already a "believer", but I'm not really sure how else to answer.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

devildavid said:
Good thing that we don't explain everything that way. We never would have advanced intellectually at all. Every explanation of the physical world would be explained simply as god did it.
Click to expand...

I generally don't think religion and science are at odds with each other.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

RAMOSS said:
There is one thing about that Christian explanation ... It has no objective evidence for it. An explanation about the physical world with no model to test, and no objective evidence for is basically no explanation at all.
Click to expand...

That's true, but I wouldn't know how to provide objective evidence for it, beyond Jesus' presence on the Earth, the miracles that he performed, and the historical accounts of his life... If one thinks he was just another person and nothing more, then there's the same problem of no objective evidence...

Look at the existence of aliens... Obviously one can't prove that something doesn't exist, but unless an alien is indeed proven to exist, we just don't know for sure, and one would then have to have faith that aliens in fact do exist. Their belief that aliens do or don't exist is exactly that, a belief, because it hasn't been proven either way, and until we physically see an alien and prove it to be an alien, then it's nothing more than a belief that they do exist, maybe exist, or don't exist. Same with God... Some believe he exists, some believe he might exist, and others believe that he doesn't exist. One can't prove his existence unless he were to come down to Earth, show himself, and prove that he is in fact God. Until then, we just have to take the Bible for it's Word and believe it as truth, which is what I personally do.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

gfm7175 said:
That's generally true, and they did write it afterwards... But the Christian belief is that it wasn't actually these men writing down the words that they did... It was God writing down these words through these men... Which again, how can I prove that on an Earthly level? I don't know how to do that... I just personally know it to be true because, through faith, I believe the Bible to be true, and the Bible says that God was the ultimate author of it. "All scripture is God-breathed"... I am fully aware of how "insane" that sounds from an Earthly standpoint, or for someone who isn't already a "believer", but I'm not really sure how else to answer.
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There is belief, and then there is supporting that belief. Then there are explanations, and then there are rationalizations. To try to reject scientific endeavors by saying it does not have a complete answer, by offering a religious explanation that has not objective evidence for it is not reasonable.
 
re: Why are atheistse so desperate to insist all Christians are "young earthers?"[W:991]

gfm7175 said:
Since he sent his only begotten son into the world to die a gruesome death on a cross for us and for all our sins
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Allegedly.
 
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