• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.***[W:1682]****

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

Bodhisattva said:
If you don't believe in a world with fairies you have a belief in a world without fairies...

If you don't believe in a world with god you have a belief in a world without god...

Works if you turn it around too...
Click to expand...

Did you see what you just did. the first part of your sentence states a non belief. "you don't believe"
The second part is a non belief because you chose a negative and attached it to the term believe. You use the word "without" which can be substituted with "none" "no" "zero". Add those terms together. Without belief, no belief, zero belief....etc. It all come s out the same in the end. It equals no belief. You just rearranged the words differently.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

Tuatara said:
This has been proven many times so let's see if you can conquer this. So by your definition it is a belief that you don't believe in all the other gods ever mentioned. That's over 2000 beliefs you have there. How about fairies? Do you believe in them? No. Well according to you that's another belief system. Leprechauns, invisible toasters, flying purple gorillas, a flat earth. No matter what somebody believes in, no matter how absurd, according to you, you have a belief for each of these.
Click to expand...

The difference is that we don't hate leprechauns, invisible toasters, flying purple gorillas or people who believe the earth is flat, because we know better. I don't take flat earthers seriously. I don't take the flying spaghetti monster seriously. The militant atheist position is not simply "I don't believe", it's "I don't believe and you better not, either". That's fear. And what causes the fear is that they think we are going to vote for people they don't want to see in office. So I submit to you that it has nothing to do with religion, it has more to do with politics. It's not simply "I don't believe".
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

it's just me said:
The difference is that we don't hate leprechauns, invisible toasters, flying purple gorillas or people who believe the earth is flat, because we know better. I don't take flat earthers seriously. I don't take the flying spaghetti monster seriously. The militant atheist position is not simply "I don't believe", it's "I don't believe and you better not, either". That's fear. And what causes the fear is that they think we are going to vote for people they don't want to see in office. So I submit to you that it has nothing to do with religion, it has more to do with politics. It's not simply "I don't believe".
Click to expand...

Keeping religion out of politics is a very good idea.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

zyzygy said:
Keeping religion out of politics is a very good idea.
Click to expand...

When politics keeps it's nose out of my religion, I'll consider it.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

it's just me said:
When politics keeps it's nose out of my religion, I'll consider it.
Click to expand...
So, you'll have lots of examples of where politics has restricted your freedom to practice your religion won't you?
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

zyzygy said:
Keeping religion out of politics is a very good idea.
Click to expand...
Personally, I feel a great affinity for those that just want to have their delusions and not impose them on anyone else. It's most often politicised religion that I have a problem with.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

Bodhisattva said:
It is not a belief that there is no belief...

It is a belief that there is not belief that is the belief...

In rejection of belief that any deities exist they have just formed an acceptance that something is true, especially without proof.
Click to expand...

It still makes no sense. Atheism is a a belief that there is "not belief"? Huh? What exactly is this thing you call "not belief"? That makes no rational, logical sense at all. It is still the most awkward attempt to make atheism into a belief. And do theists not believe in "not belief"? Pretzel logic.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

Elvira said:
Which made no sense...feelings are feelings, just as beliefs are beliefs...we all have them...
Click to expand...

And some people lack certain beliefs and certain feelings.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

Logicman said:
Where do you get this drivel? My God took care of his believers at Calvary. I've got eternal life in heaven when I pass. Where and what are you going to be when you belly up?
Click to expand...

You have nothing when you pass. You don't have a god. You have a story. We all end up the same. like it or not. Believing in something does not change what happens to you.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

it's just me said:
The difference is that we don't hate leprechauns, invisible toasters, flying purple gorillas or people who believe the earth is flat, because we know better. I don't take flat earthers seriously. I don't take the flying spaghetti monster seriously. The militant atheist position is not simply "I don't believe", it's "I don't believe and you better not, either". That's fear. And what causes the fear is that they think we are going to vote for people they don't want to see in office. So I submit to you that it has nothing to do with religion, it has more to do with politics. It's not simply "I don't believe".
Click to expand...

Atheism is not militant. Atheism is not a philosophy. It is simply lack of belief in gods. That is all.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

devildavid said:
Atheism is not militant. Atheism is not a philosophy. It is simply lack of belief in gods. That is all.
Click to expand...

You're wrong, I have already explained why. That is all.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

it's just me said:
You're wrong, I have already explained why. That is all.
Click to expand...

You explained nothing. You attached the word militant to atheist in order to attack atheism. You will never find a philosophy of atheism because it does not exist. Atheism is simply a certain stance with regard to god. That stance is a lack of belief. Good luck finding anything else. Same is true of theism. It is simply a belief in god(s). It also has no philosophy attached to it. That is all.
 
stevecanuck said:
Calling atheism a belief is absurd. It only 'exists' due to the ubiquity of belief in gods. If there were only a few theists in the world, their presence would not be noticeable, and therefore there would be no need to coin a term of negation. As it is though, it's hard to ignore the prattling of billions of believers, no matter how hard I try. I suppose we are also all ajaguarists since we do not share the belief of the remote Amazonian tribe who hold that bad people get reincarnated as jaguars. The only difference between Abrahamic theists and jaguarists is numbers and visibility. The list of a-whatever you are is as long as the list of religious beliefs.

But why do Abrahamics especially feel an apparently overwhelming need to call disbelief a belief? It's because there is already an endless list of competing beliefs, so simply adding one more is no big deal. Just bundle atheism with all the other 'wrong' beliefs, and away it goes down the chute with all the rest. Bob's your uncle. Their comfort zone is restricted to arguing over which belief is correct, not whether any belief is correct. The former allows them to stay snugly and smugly in the realm of supernatural creation while the latter does not. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...


Simple. Modern atheism is a religion in itself. With priests like Dawkins and standard dogmatic responses. If atheists just existed it would be different.
 
blackjack50 said:
Simple. Modern atheism is a religion in itself. With priests like Dawkins and standard dogmatic responses. If atheists just existed it would be different.
Click to expand...

Stop being silly. Atheists simply believe in one less god than you do.
 
blackjack50 said:
Simple. Modern atheism is a religion in itself. With priests like Dawkins and standard dogmatic responses. If atheists just existed it would be different.
Click to expand...

I am an atheist and I have never read a word of Dawkins.
 
blackjack50 said:
Simple. Modern atheism is a religion in itself. With priests like Dawkins and standard dogmatic responses. If atheists just existed it would be different.
Click to expand...

Atheists are allowed to express themselves as atheists. No different than any other point of view. Does not make it a religion unless all points of view are considered religions.
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

it's just me said:
The difference is that we don't hate leprechauns, invisible toasters, flying purple gorillas or people who believe the earth is flat, because we know better.
Click to expand...
You are missing the point. The discussion was about how anything you don't believe in is a belief according to the OP and a few others. It's not about hating someone with beliefs.
I don't take flat earthers seriously.
Click to expand...
Would you if the majority of the people were and they held most of the power and they made political decisions from their beliefs.
I don't take the flying spaghetti monster seriously.
Click to expand...
Same as above.
The militant atheist position
Click to expand...
Militant, has anyone here threatened you with violence. have we all taken up arms. I think someone has spread fear to themselves and has attached ridiculous terms.

is not simply "I don't believe", it's "I don't believe and you better not, either".
Click to expand...
Please point out where any atheist has stated you better not believe.
That's fear.
Click to expand...
That's not fear because it didn't happen. It's irrational paranoia on your behalf.
And what causes the fear is that they think we are going to vote for people they don't want to see in office.
Click to expand...
Who are "they" and only a handful of atheists have been voted in at smaller positions like mayor or councilman. You have been asked twice so far and have dodged it. Has politics interfered with your religion?
So I submit to you that it has nothing to do with religion, it has more to do with politics. It's not simply "I don't believe".
Click to expand...
Wrong, it is. And some people can't even grasp that.
 
it's just me said:
There's that word - belief.
Click to expand...

I believe it's the topic of discussion. It's difficult to use the word when alternative meanings are seized upon. Context is important. How many gods do you believe in? I believe in one fewer.
 
zyzygy said:
I am an atheist and I have never read a word of Dawkins.
Click to expand...

You don't have to read Dawkins.
All you have to do is regurgitate the dis-information his disciples spread around. They'd read Dawkins books!

Just look at most of the "reasonings" being used here - they're all "dawkinesque."
 
Re: Why theists are so desperate to call atheism a belief.

devildavid said:
It still makes no sense. Atheism is a a belief that there is "not belief"? Huh? What exactly is this thing you call "not belief"? That makes no rational, logical sense at all. It is still the most awkward attempt to make atheism into a belief. And do theists not believe in "not belief"? Pretzel logic.
Click to expand...

A belief.

Atheists caring so much about this is as ridiculous as pro-choicers not admitting that life begind at conception.
 
zyzygy said:
I am an atheist and I have never read a word of Dawkins.
Click to expand...

Some people cannot comprehend how you can come to a position without some arbitrary authority being at the core of it.

I too have read very little Dawkins stuff, it just doesn't do it for me, but it clearly upsets theists and gives them a 'Satan' to take pot shots at so he can't be all bad. My avatar tends to get the same types howling at the moon as well :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom