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The Downfall Of Society

Yes...arguably better and then we progressed, as you say to the cell phone...funny thing happened back when addressing this a while back...I got a text bomb...a former neighbor added me to a list of 10...I knew one of the others...there were a bunch of "who dat?" and text's back and forth trying to figure out wtf? Finally someone said "stop texting me" another answered someone else and another responded to another and then the other said, "I said quit texting me, you're interrupting my class." So much for "better" communication...then a few days back...the phone went off again...same group of confusion...I texted "this is bull****"...the person who started it all suggested I delete the conversation...that required a bit of learning on my part being virtually ignorant on such things...with the help of a friend...woohoo...I got this down.
So who are you?



I suspect that parents teach less and less values as their children spend more and more time with their technology and daycare.

Propaganda is much more easily spread through todays technology...fake news...hoax...etcetera.
Ah yes of course, but are you a parent? I am, I have couple teens (13 and 16) I teach them values the end is not nigh.
 
Eventually everyone will know how to use the machines, and it's a labor saver, progress.

I know, awesome...and they will have 24 trained people they can downsize...or maybe they plan to relocate them from this one to next new ultra mega mart?
That place was awesome...gotta take sis with next time.

Sometimes, I have a hard time relating "labor saving" as necessarily equating to "progress"...on the other hand, that is often times the case...sometimes it can be hard to figure...

Back in the late 80's, I had a gig as Project Coordinator on a 30,000 sq. ft. concrete tilt-up remodel...bringing up to earthquake standards and such...into a high tech mainframe computer/printer repair and sales business...I was a go between expeditor dealing with the owner, general contractor, city of Irvine and Orange County Fire Dept....and throw in a design firm that couldn't understand that water does not drain up hill who were brought in because the owners wife and GM couldn't agree on carpet color or something of the sort...he couldn't be bothered, I suspect he called me about the same time...I found it a bit entertaining.

Doing all of the digging left us with a huge pile of dirt out back and we were coming to a point...it's time...I prodded the general a bit and a guy came by that evening driving a dump truck, pulling a backhoe on a trailer...the perfect labor saving device...on his way home...problem resolved...I figured he called a friend, which he did, who could swing by and take a load out each evening and we got a reasonable deal because he had a place for the dirt...way cool.

Now I've no clue of the in's and out's of this guys business...I assume he measures "progress" in some way related to his bottom line...makes sense, he's got the tools that will make short time of it...

That's why I was surprised when two dump trucks and about 10 Mexicans with shovel's showed and started a dirt relay...what do I know?

Here's another take...the owner mentioned previously...I started working for his dad when I was 13...it was a small electronic business and could be run by two to three people...sometimes just one...anyway...we sold RCA plugs...two for a nickel...I was about 17 when a Radio Shack moved in nearby...they could move much more material because instead of picking, how many do you want at two for a nickel out of a little box in a glass case that we bought a hundred at a time, they used labor saving fancy displays with cardboard and plastic containing five for .69...those resistant to "progress" kept coming to us...good for both their economy and the environment...just a perspective.

How do you like ATMs?

Handy little suckers...I pull money each month...go into the bank and turn most of the 20's into 100's...they could use a bit of simple program adjustment, imo

Second thread I started, under a prior name...

https://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/294240-press-1-english.html
 
This is certainly a mildly entertaining stream of conscious you go going on. I hope you get to a point, though.

Cool, I said I'd get back and figured I should let you know...beyond that, read as you wish...if you've got better things to do, I'm not sure I can keep you entertained but I'll put making a point on the list of things to do...in the mean time I find this to be fun cheap entertainment...in an evolving society...just sharing my perspective.
 
Or, just keep going AYSM.

I think his point is where are people going to work when their jobs are lost to technology?
And frustration with new technology.

My answer: Move to the city where people make the robots.

Thank you, I've got more for sure.

Job loss due to labor saving devices can be a problem but my thesis regarding technology goes beyond that...just happened to go to Wal-Mart so I brought that up...labor isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Move to the city and make robots? Sounds like a plan...let's all build robots...then what?
 
So who are you?

Just one of the ten who gave a ding-a-ling former neighbor, my phone number, relative to what you quoted.



Ah yes of course, but are you a parent? I am, I have couple teens (13 and 16) I teach them values the end is not nigh.

I'm not suggesting the end, just a decline...glad you're doin' good by your kids...been there, done that...a parent, grand, great-grand.
 
Just one of the ten who gave a ding-a-ling former neighbor, my phone number, relative to what you quoted.





I'm not suggesting the end, just a decline...glad you're doin' good by your kids...been there, done that...a parent, grand, great-grand.


I do not know you anymore than those ten people in that group chat. But here we are communicating about a subject that seems to concern you.

I do not see how communicating can spell doom to society? And you really havent made a case for progressive technology having a bad influence on society. For ever bad that you can think of there is much more good. You can deride communication technology all that you want, but I know that I am in contact with old friends that I had lost as we grew older.

And the technology is still young, whats around the corner will force those bent neck kids to stop obsessing with their primitive little computers. They will scoff at their kids and say they used to have to carry a expensive phone around, much like us older people talk about rotary phones.
 
I've argued since shortly after it's introduction and gain in popularity, the downfall of society, in part, began with the invention of the telephone answering machine...it became a line of defense from honest human interaction...I submit that current events in communication technology bear that out.

Society is ever evolving so this thesis will likely ring more plausible with those who experienced society during my generation while the younger folks are diggin' their toys...amazing technology to say the least.

In the old days no answer meant no one near the phone...nowadays we have Ring where you can appear to be home when you really aren't...voice, floodlights, heck, set off an alarm...deter thieves, way cool

I preferred a society where we lived in neighborhoods where we didn't worry about even needing to carry a house key.

I hear you but whining leads to wishing and before you know it you are living in a fantasy where time machines are real. You can't go back..no one can.
No matter what politicians and false idols tell you otherwise.
Make the best of what we have and remember that every generation had similar complaints.
 
....remember that every generation had similar complaints.

This is an important thing to remember.

Q: "The trouble with youngsters today..."


...
The quote (the one you've heard before) is commonly attributed to Socrates, but apparently there is
no conclusive evidence that he actually said it. The Library of
Congress notes that this quote is "attributed to Socrates by Plato"...

The quote may have come from Plato's Republic Book 4, where Socrates
is quoted saying the following regarding things that he thinks have
been neglected: "I mean such things as these: ? when the young are to
be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by
standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what
garments or shoes are to be worn; the mode of dressing the hair;
deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me? ? Yes."

The Greek philosopher Plato studied under Socrates. Plato complained
about the youth of the day, also. "What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" I think this is
a direct quote, but can't find the reference at the moment.

Here's another one:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC)
....

Sounds like the Socrates quote there could be talking about wanting to youth to talk to him, the Socratic method.
Plato's quote is clear, and he was writing for himself.
I find Plato's quote there much more relevant today than the one we've heard before, because it mentions rioting.
 
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The "Downfall" began mysteriously with the Fall of Man. It is replayed with every newborn, which makes its journey from innocence to experience. The halcyon days some of us remember were just holding actions. As Sartre rightly put it, "Hell is other people."
 
I do not know you anymore than those ten people in that group chat. But here we are communicating about a subject that seems to concern you.

I do not see how communicating can spell doom to society? And you really havent made a case for progressive technology having a bad influence on society. For ever bad that you can think of there is much more good. You can deride communication technology all that you want, but I know that I am in contact with old friends that I had lost as we grew older.

And the technology is still young, whats around the corner will force those bent neck kids to stop obsessing with their primitive little computers. They will scoff at their kids and say they used to have to carry a expensive phone around, much like us older people talk about rotary phones.

Great post, it leads to the bigger point that Mycroft is seeking but only a symptom so I just thought I should mention the "point" was addressed in my post #61...that's the direction I am going...as to mild entertainment...and cheap too...

"I do not know you anymore than those ten people in that group chat."

Exactly...and now you get to learn a bit more if you wish by creating an online image...little more...how real would depend on my truthfulness, my ability to make it clear, your ability to comprehend which would presumably increase as you learned more about my view of the world...yet...still, how real?
Here's an example...I was on a Forum and met a very nice lady from Finland...and a college student from Irvine, CA...according to the picture she shared online, she was quite beautiful with striking blue eyes...almost as beautiful as she was when we met...the two of them developed a bit of a "thing" for each other, let's say...she decided to fly to So. Cal. and the two of them would meet up...the following day, sis and I would join them with our car and the four of us would take a road trip up the coast...some of my old stomping grounds.

We met them in Irvine and gather up them and their stuff...headed north to spend the night in San Luis Obispo...good times...the next morning we headed to share with them a tour of Hearst Castle...by the end of the day I drove back to Irvine...dumped his ass out of the car and brought her to our home in Arizona after a wonderful night spent by the three of us remaining...we took her to the Grand Canyon and a circular trip of the region...got her safely on her way back to Finland...she was a very beautiful person.

His image didn't match reality...he was aware she was over weight...no biggie...until he found out it was by a few hundred pounds.

"But here we are communicating about a subject that seems to concern you."

Concern? From a standpoint of relating to it...yes...I do get frustrated at times, for instance, if you hand me your phone to view a video, damn sure I'll touch it in a way that will result in my handing it back so you can pull up the video again, lol...do I really care about this issue enough to worry about it? Not really...just having a discussion.

"I do not see how communicating can spell doom to society?"

Through the use of propaganda...dishonesty..."fake news", to put it into a modern day context.

"And you really havent made a case for progressive technology having a bad influence on society. For ever bad that you can think of there is much more good. You can deride communication technology all that you want, but I know that I am in contact with old friends that I had lost as we grew older."

Do I have to negate the good to make a case for the bad? Haven't many societies throughout history "advanced" to the point of destruction?

"And the technology is still young, whats around the corner will force those bent neck kids to stop obsessing with their primitive little computers. They will scoff at their kids and say they used to have to carry a expensive phone around, much like us older people talk about rotary phones."

No doubt...I thought John Sebastian said it quite well...

 
I hear you but whining leads to wishing and before you know it you are living in a fantasy where time machines are real. You can't go back..no one can.
No matter what politicians and false idols tell you otherwise.
Make the best of what we have and remember that every generation had similar complaints.

Whining? Hmmm...I thought I was having a discussion and presenting a case to make a premise...problem with your obtuse view is that it doesn't take into consideration my time machine goes back and into the future as well...your fantasy in this thread began the moment you presumed to know me.
 
I've argued since shortly after it's introduction and gain in popularity, the downfall of society, in part, began with the invention of the telephone answering machine...it became a line of defense from honest human interaction...I submit that current events in communication technology bear that out.

Society is ever evolving so this thesis will likely ring more plausible with those who experienced society during my generation while the younger folks are diggin' their toys...amazing technology to say the least.

In the old days no answer meant no one near the phone...nowadays we have Ring where you can appear to be home when you really aren't...voice, floodlights, heck, set off an alarm...deter thieves, way cool

I preferred a society where we lived in neighborhoods where we didn't worry about even needing to carry a house key.

Society broke down when we all began commuting in our own automobiles instead of walking to a bus stop. So now, we travel in a cocoon isolated from those outside of our immediate circle, making it easier to shut out the "other."

This has been made worse by talk radio. Now many of us hear how rotten the other is while we roll past them in our glass bubbles.
 
Society broke down when we all began commuting in our own automobiles instead of walking to a bus stop. So now, we travel in a cocoon isolated from those outside of our immediate circle, making it easier to shut out the "other."

This has been made worse by talk radio. Now many of us hear how rotten the other is while we roll past them in our glass bubbles.

So, you're one of those glass bubble types, are you.
 
So, you're one of those glass bubble types, are you.

Probably not. I live in a racially diverse community were we walk everywhere. So, I'd say I get exposed to more people unlike me in a day than most people here experience in a year.
 
So, you're one of those glass bubble types, are you.

I'll presume you weren't suggesting calamity is a Methican American and meant something else...not sure what nor why...perhaps you can expand on that?

Personally, I viewed the post you quoted as the one I can relate to and use as a much better one to quote, to further the thread discussion in the direction I intended...later

yours...not so much

:popcorn2:

ps...never mind...I see calamity got it so I don't need to...consider my question rhetorical
 
Considering this is the Philosophical discussion forum, my vote is the Frankfurt School and the Neo-marxist influences it had on the Democratic Party. Take Herbert Marcuse for example, in his work "One Dimensional Man" he thought that the likelihood of revolution coming from the working class was diminishing and unlikely and that the only hope of getting rid of capitalism was of those not yet integrated into the one dimensional society (The socially marginalized). Given that the Left controls virtually all of MSM, education system, and the Democratic party is really much of a stretch to believe they are purposefully stirring up division of those who feel oppressed in order to bring about revolution and end the capitalist society America is built on? Considering the common perception is that the Democratic party has moved away from the working class and towards a unified alliance of those deemed as "socially marginalized" while social unrest is rapidly increasing, it begs the question of whether it is intentional or not.
 
Society broke down when we all began commuting in our own automobiles instead of walking to a bus stop. So now, we travel in a cocoon isolated from those outside of our immediate circle, making it easier to shut out the "other."

This has been made worse by talk radio. Now many of us hear how rotten the other is while we roll past them in our glass bubbles.

Talk radio goes more toward my original argument...downfall due to technology...however, although I don't accept your premise that it necessarily contributes to some bubble effect, other than we needed cars to get to the suburbs...large parts of America are not well served by mass transit...we need individual transportation unless you live in a big city with effective mass transit.

On the flip side, yes, cars do lead to a contribution of our downfall...ie pollution...on the other hand there are big bucks involved and Americans are prone to greed...soooo...the downfall that cars brought actually came about when the oil industry convinced Eisenhower that we had an endless supply of fossil fuel and we didn't the hydrogen technology developed by the German's...now, add the various problems around the world over this oil issue...including US domination...trading in US Petro Dollars...the printing presses running overtime.

Back in the late 60's I grew up in a small college town about 35 miles east of LA. Back then it was only I-10 which became backed up with traffic so day, they added the I-60...was great before it caught on...at any rate...I recall a conversation with my dad based around commuting and electric cars...at that time, all they had was about a 25 mile range...rather difficult with a trip of perhaps 80-90 mile or more round trip.

What we came up with was a track...could run down the center of the freeway median...as long as you can get to the "grid", you then tie in...back then we envisioned something like Disneyland where you would drop some brushes into the track (perhaps magnetic more recently) and it would rebuild the charge to get you to work...read, nap...the computer takes over control, sensors keep you from running into some other vehicle...plug in at work...get back to grid and then back home...charging most of the time.

Single seat and double...one behind the other...they would be smaller, lighter and narrower so parking can be downsized.

We have the technology...just not the mindset.

MadMagazineJaredKushner.jpg
 
Talk radio goes more toward my original argument...downfall due to technology...however, although I don't accept your premise that it necessarily contributes to some bubble effect, other than we needed cars to get to the suburbs...large parts of America are not well served by mass transit...we need individual transportation unless you live in a big city with effective mass transit.

On the flip side, yes, cars do lead to a contribution of our downfall...ie pollution...on the other hand there are big bucks involved and Americans are prone to greed...soooo...the downfall that cars brought actually came about when the oil industry convinced Eisenhower that we had an endless supply of fossil fuel and we didn't the hydrogen technology developed by the German's...now, add the various problems around the world over this oil issue...including US domination...trading in US Petro Dollars...the printing presses running overtime.

Back in the late 60's I grew up in a small college town about 35 miles east of LA. Back then it was only I-10 which became backed up with traffic so day, they added the I-60...was great before it caught on...at any rate...I recall a conversation with my dad based around commuting and electric cars...at that time, all they had was about a 25 mile range...rather difficult with a trip of perhaps 80-90 mile or more round trip.

What we came up with was a track...could run down the center of the freeway median...as long as you can get to the "grid", you then tie in...back then we envisioned something like Disneyland where you would drop some brushes into the track (perhaps magnetic more recently) and it would rebuild the charge to get you to work...read, nap...the computer takes over control, sensors keep you from running into some other vehicle...plug in at work...get back to grid and then back home...charging most of the time.

Single seat and double...one behind the other...they would be smaller, lighter and narrower so parking can be downsized.

We have the technology...just not the mindset.

View attachment 67224364

Love that cover
 
I've argued since shortly after it's introduction and gain in popularity, the downfall of society, in part, began with the invention of the telephone answering machine...it became a line of defense from honest human interaction...I submit that current events in communication technology bear that out.

Society is ever evolving so this thesis will likely ring more plausible with those who experienced society during my generation while the younger folks are diggin' their toys...amazing technology to say the least.

In the old days no answer meant no one near the phone...nowadays we have Ring where you can appear to be home when you really aren't...voice, floodlights, heck, set off an alarm...deter thieves, way cool

I preferred a society where we lived in neighborhoods where we didn't worry about even needing to carry a house key.

I thought it was when women got the vote.
 
Let me count the ways...

We have come to accept an almost 50% divorce rate, unwed motherhood, and the disintegration of the American family. We accept inner-city war zones. Have virtually enslaved the poor in the name of helping them. Have allowed our inner-city schools to fail. The news media teaches us that we ALL live in crime ravaged neighborhoods although that is very far from true. Yes, bad people do bad things. But they do them exponentially more often to other bad people.

I could go on and on and on before I ever got to automatic call answering. ;)

"We have come to accept an almost 50% divorce rate"

This, so much this.

1950's - divorce low

1965 - Strong and EMPOWERED. INDEPENDENCE. REEEEEEEE

1970's, 1980s, 1990's, 2000's, 2010's, 2020's. Divorce divorce divorce divorce and more divorce.

I don't know the solution here. I would think taking away incentives for unwed motherhood (ie more benefits without a man in the home), a resurgence of traditional family values (which would require our culture as a whole shifting drastically. Don't count on it) and a better quality education for peoples in the inner city would work wonders for our staggering divorce rate.

But then what would happen to a woman who made a terrible choice and now has kids to feed. What is the solution? We can't just leave them on the street. Well we could, but... on one hand, an innocent kid would be affected. On the other, people MUST be held accountable for their choices.

There is no simple solution.

This is why the TRADITIONAL FAMILY UNIT worked wonders. No daycare costs, woman watches the kid. The man is stronger, more dominant and assertive so he can make more money. No relying on government assistance, rely on family. Thing is, many people don't have families at all due to welfare dependence.

So now this is a catch 22.

I even proposed a divorce tax penalty. Get divorced? Now you have to pay some penalties for it. There is a divorce tax in Russia I believe. Give tax breaks and so on for newly wed couples and for couples who remain married. The longer you stay married, the more plentiful those tax breaks become.

After 50 years of marriage, your effective tax rate would be at such a level, that you would basically be paying peanuts in personal income tax.

Which is good for the average person, as, the taxes they get screwed on the most is: income tax.

Sad but the only way to stop the collapse of the family is to provide some incentives.

Slut shaming did good. Before DNA testing, it helped ensure men weren't getting cuckolded. It helped women remain somewhat "pure" and so they were fit for motherhood. Few women are fit for motherhood anymore.. and it's a god damn shame.

But then what about revenue for our government?

All of those tax breaks..

And now we get back to politics.

sighs.

Idc how much far lefties say the 50's weren't that great, I say bull****. Taxes were pretty high, unions were alive, wages were up, jobs paid decent, the family unit still existed, you could get ONE job from age 18 and stay until 70 and have a pension already waiting for you @ retirement. True safety nets. Factories not going overseas in record numbers, no flood of illegal immigrants taking jobs from legal Americans, no illegal immigrants to accept a job for less than min. wage

(and no i'm not racist, Idc about skin color, illegal immigrants of any and all kind(s) need to be deported ASAP or more jobs will be lost. That's just how it is)
 
I thought it was when women got the vote.

This guy is on the money. When women got the vote, that was what started the SLOW but certain slide into what we have now.

Men getting cucked en-masse, uncertain paternity abound, gynocentric laws and so on, pro-female bias at all levels of the court system and in society...

but MEN are the privileged ones.

If men kill someone and are caught, they can never see their kids outside of a glass wall.

Look up Mary Bell.

Women who are serial killers get to live well into old age FREE, not men. Men never see the light of day again.
 
The downturn of Society started with the Internet and has been expounded on by the Smart Phone. No longer do people ask question they Google It, no longer do people walk over to their friends house and have human contact and knock on a door, they text, or private msg.

Society has no unified feeling anymore and has furthered the Self Righteousness and Gluttony of people. Kids will forget their wallet and their medicine but not their phone!
 
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