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Hunting is ethical ?

Hunting is ethical ?

  • Total voters
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APB212 said:
I'm so sorry, let me correct myself.

*Ahem*

Real men hunt, then their wives cook them dinner.

See? Now it's inclusive.
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There is no other source of eating ? :lol:
 
I guess this is pretty much dead, but I agonize over this. I grew up with it so I understand that side, but I have vegan friends and I respect them so much for their position. I have hunted and that primal feeling is undeniable. And yet the taking of life is a profoundly disturbing experience. I would honestly put it on par with the sublimity of experiencing great art. Which is probably the most pretentious thing to say...but I can't help it. The only conclusion I can come to is I don't know..
 
APB212 said:
I'm so sorry, let me correct myself.

*Ahem*

Real men hunt, then their wives cook them dinner.

See? Now it's inclusive.
Click to expand...

I'm so tempted to tell my husband and wife deer hunting joke.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
So basically, all of your links except the questionable one that sources from cable TV only claim that for vegetarian diets, not vegan ones, just like I said.
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I honestly can’t tell if you’re being deliberately disingenuous at this point. Take your own advice and read the damn links. All of these national organizations included VEGAN otherwise known as total vegetarian diets within their evaluations. They use the word “vegetarian” as a general term used to describe all versions of these types of diets.

And the link that “sources from cable TV” as you say is a peer reviewed scientific journal. They were merely referencing an HBO documentary that covered the obesity epidemic. That citation didn’t even have anything to do with their evidence for the efficacy for vegan diets!
I really shouldn't be holding your hand when all it would have taken you is a word search, but fine.
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The first time I looked at it I did do a word search. The only mention of vegetarian and vegan diets was that they CAN result in a B12 deficiency. There is nothing saying it’s inevitable or unavoidable that these deficiencies will occur. Certainly it didn’t cover the myriad of questionable claims you made earlier.

Regardless, I’m inclined to believe the positions of national dietician organizations on the matter. I’m not claiming that vegans cannot be deficient, but this can be an issue with any diet. If you want to be healthy, you need to be willing to do some research on the subject.

Supplements are, at best, inferior, last-ditch efforts.
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Right, which is why I said earlier that you need to eat foods fortified with B12 in addition to taking supplements. No, supplements aren’t meant to replace whole foods, but they do a decent job at filling in the nutritional gaps of our diets. As I said before, it is even recommended that omnivores take B12 supplements as well, so it’s hardly only a vegan issue.

Even “livestock” are often given B12 injections as well as other supplements in order to prevent deficiency because their diets are so poor, which kind of negates the argument that you have to consume animals in order to reduce the intake of supplements.

http://eerainuh.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/vitamin_b12_deficiency.pdf

https://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/2014/02/19/supplementing-vitamins-a-d-and-e-to-beef-cattle/

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/livestock-biosecurity/cobalt-deficiency-sheep-and-cattle
Also, calories has nothing to do with literal quantity. Very sneaky little link, there.
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I would think that calories are kind of important given they are the literal energy we get from food. I really don’t understand why I’m arguing about this with you though. It’s seems fairly evident that most crops are grown for “livestock” given how much they outnumber us.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/07/global-livestock-counts

Either way, this information is easily found, and really isn’t in dispute.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/corn/background.aspx

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-to-rethink-corn/

You seem to be conveniently forgetting, also, that a pretty high percentage of livestock animals feed on pasture.
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Where in the world are you getting this idea? There’s still a high percentage of FARMS that use pasture land, but pretty much all “livestock” animals are raised in intensive conditions or factory farms. They produce practically 99% of the animals we eat today. Nothing else would even be feasible given the current demand for animal products.

https://farmforward.com/ending-factory-farming/

Veganism doesn't represent an honest solution to anything. It does nothing to reduce land destruction or animal killing in any real terms, it increases our reliance on slave labor,
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The first two points are just plain false. Again, it generally takes less land to exclusively grow plants than it does to raise animals for food. We currently kill 58 billion animals worldwide annually for food, and this doesn’t even include fish and other sea life which are measured by pounds rather than individual lives. So the real number is likely in the trillions.

The third point is clearly debatable as many “livestock” animals are given supplements as well, but veganism shouldn’t have to be a perfect solution. I’m merely trying to present that it’s a feasible one.

This isn’t an end point by any means. I see it as simply an attempt to reduce the overall harm caused by humanity, but we should also maintain the drive to always progress forward.
 
and it's not viable for some of our population either due to their age, health status, or income. Essentially, veganism is the purview of the exceptionally privileged only.
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Wow. Nice job basically erasing low-income vegans. We do actually exist, and it is possible to be vegan even if you are poor. If there are those that simply don’t have access to fresh fruits and vegetables, such as in food deserts, then we should provide support for those communities.

https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/food/groceries/eating-vegan-on-a-budget/

How I Maintain a Very Humble (Low) Budget Eating Vegan, Without Any Sacrifice | One Green Planet
 
Brother AJ said:
Wow. Nice job basically erasing low-income vegans. We do actually exist, and it is possible to be vegan even if you are poor. If there are those that simply don’t have access to fresh fruits and vegetables, such as in food deserts, then we should provide support for those communities.

https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/food/groceries/eating-vegan-on-a-budget/

How I Maintain a Very Humble (Low) Budget Eating Vegan, Without Any Sacrifice | One Green Planet
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I noticed that in Texas, there were a lot of very very good fruits and vegetables for very inexpensive compared with the north east. It was delightful to see how much organic veggies were to be found too.
 
RAMOSS said:
I noticed that in Texas, there were a lot of very very good fruits and vegetables for very inexpensive compared with the north east. It was delightful to see how much organic veggies were to be found too.
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Yes, and this brings up another concern which is how the government chooses to subsidize farming. Despite even their own recommendations as to what qualifies as a healthy diet, the vast amount of farming subsidies go towards animal agriculture. If we want healthy items to be less exspensive, then this clearly needs to change.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usdas-dinner-plate-vs-farm-subsidies-its-still-no-contest/
 
zyzygy said:
There are two swear words in it, are they allowed here?
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If not, they'll get censored automatically. Just edit afterwards and replace them with their starting letters, we'll know what you mean.
 
APB212 said:
If not, they'll get censored automatically. Just edit afterwards and replace them with their starting letters, we'll know what you mean.
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There was a guy who liked hunting but his wife disapproved. One day he shot a deer and took it home and hid it in the garage. The next day his wife was away so he cooked up some venison for dinner. His son asked "What are we eating daddy?" He replied " It's something special, I'll give you a clue. Your mummy calls your daddy this sometimes." His daughter shouted "Don't eat it it's a f****** as*****!"
 
zyzygy said:
There was a guy who liked hunting but his wife disapproved. One day he shot a deer and took it home and hid it in the garage. The next day his wife was away so he cooked up some venison for dinner. His son asked "What are we eating daddy?" He replied " It's something special, I'll give you a clue. Your mummy calls your daddy this sometimes." His daughter shouted "Don't eat it it's a f****** as*****!"
Click to expand...

Nice.
 
Lutherf said:
Ask yourself, is it more ethical to breed animals specifically for human consumption or to hunt animals in their own environment?

Hunting is a good way to preserve animal populations in their natural environment. It prevents overgrazing and overbreeding.
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Kinda like the animals evolved to have some sort of predation pressure for all these millennia, and with predator populations being reduced . . . . .
 
Chagos said:
Kindly don't quote mine (truncate) what you reply to in a post of mine. Thanks.
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Apologies. It wasn't my intention to take anything out of context. I merely didn't think all of your post was necessary to quote.

on the first count (bolded), they get their food from me, on the second count (also bolded), agreed.
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Yes, but cats are subject to different standards because they possess different capacities. We don't need to consume animals to survive, they do.

don't be silly, they were my property that I was protecting. Whether I was eating their family pet eggs or not.
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I'm not being "silly." There's of course the question as to whether animals should be considered "property" in the first place. There's no need to defend "livestock" from predators if there's no need to have "livestock" in the first place.

Agreed again, but the consideration should also extend to silliness of application of ethics, where considered as such.
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What's silly to some is a matter of justice and equity to another. We must refrain from appealing to ridicule.
 
PirateMk1 said:
As is the logical fallacy to call us animals and yet say we are somehow different. Animals are animals. Either we are animals and therefor ethics is simply a tool to use as we will, or we are more than animal and therefor not an animal, greater than animals and with that greatness more responsible for our actions than animals. Its one or the other. I am content to think of us as animals, THE top predators of the food chain nothing more.
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It's not a fallacy to recognize that different capacities call for different standards of ethics. We recognize this when we refuse to charge a toddler with murder even though they're capable of killing someone. They don't have the capacity to commit murder, and so they need to be judged by different standards. The same is true for other animals. They don't know any better, we do. We CHOOSE to eat other animals, it has never been inevitable.
 
RAMOSS said:
I noticed that in Texas, there were a lot of very very good fruits and vegetables for very inexpensive compared with the north east. It was delightful to see how much organic veggies were to be found too.
Click to expand...

In my childhood there were lots of organic fresh sweeties in my grandad's garden ,free!
 
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