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Study: Atheists Thought Immoral Even by Fellow Atheists

Cephus said:
None of which acted because of their atheism. Then you get Hitler, who specifically murdered Jews because he thought God wanted him to, but you rarely hear Christians talking about that, do you?
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They knew there was no "God" and, therefore, no morality and that they could kill without consequence...and they did.

Your statement about Hitler is a lie. I won't bother engaging you further, I don't engage with liars.
 
BadK9 said:
They knew there was no "God" and, therefore, no morality and that they could kill without consequence...and they did.

Your statement about Hitler is a lie. I won't bother engaging you further, I don't engage with liars.
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Here are the guys who supposedly knew there was a God, cheering him on:

I thank Heaven for a man like Adolf Hitler, who built a front line of defense against the anti-Christ of Communism
-Frank Buchman, William A. H. Birnie, "Hitler or Any Fascist Leader Controlled By God Could Cure All Ills of World, Buchman Believes," New York World Telegram August 26, 1936.

"Its aim is a new social order under the dictatorship of the spirit of God... Human problems aren't economic. They're moral and they can't be solved by immoral measures. They could be solved within a God-controlled democracy, or perhaps I should say a theocracy, and they could be solved through a God-controlled Fascist dictatorship."
-Frank Buchman, Hitler and Buchman, Reinhold Niebuhr, The Christian Century, Oct. 7, 1936

The National Socialists, as the strongest party of the right, have shown both a firm, positive relationship to Christianity.... We may expect that they will remain true to their principles in the new Reichstag.
-Otto Dibelius, General Superintendent of the Kurmark and one of the most conservative members of the Confessing Church

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. The way has been shown to us by the Führer.
-Dean Eckert, sermon at Tegel, North Berlin, 10 February 1935

At a time when the heads of the major nations in the world faced the new Germany with reserve and considerable suspicion, the Catholic Church, the greatest moral power on earth, through the Concordat, expressed its confidence in the new German [Nazi] government.
-Cardinal Faulhaber

The Führer of the Third Reich has freed the German man from his external humiliation and from the inner weakness caused by Marxism and has returned him to the ancestral Germanic values of honor, loyalty and courage...."
-Archbishop Gröber

You can see from this that we bishops, of our own free will and without compulsion, have fulfilled our national duty. I know that this declaration will be followed by a successful collaboration. With the most respectful regards and Heil Hitler!
-Cardinal Innitzer, in a letter to Gauleiter, Fritz Bürke
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Hitler was a socialist and a lot of people were deceived by his oratory and rhetoric. Is anyone suggesting that there were no German atheists that supported Hitler?
 
BadK9 said:
Hitler was a socialist and a lot of people were deceived by his oratory and rhetoric. Is anyone suggesting that there were no German atheists that supported Hitler?
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The overwhelming majority were Christians.
Hitler was very much against Atheism.

In Germany during the Nazi era, a 1933 decree stated that "No National Socialist may suffer detriment... on the ground that he does not make any religious profession at all".[22] However, the regime strongly opposed "godless communism",[23][24] and all of Germany's atheist and largely left-wing freethought organizations were banned the same year; some right-wing groups were tolerated by the Nazis until the mid-1930s.[25][26] During the negotiations leading up to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of April 26, 1933 Hitler stated that "Secular schools can never be tolerated" because of their irreligious tendencies.[27] Hitler routinely disregarded this undertaking, and the Reich concordat as a whole and by 1939, all Catholic denominational schools had been disbanded or converted to public facilities.[28]

In a speech made later in 1933, Hitler claimed to have "stamped out" the atheistic movement.[22] The word Hitler used in this speech, "Gottlosenbewegung", means "Godless Movement" in German, and it refers to the communist freethought movement, though it might not refer to atheism in general.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists#cite_note-Baynes-22
 
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Tuatara said:
The overwhelming majority were Christians.
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Perhaps "Christians" in name, but not in practice. Jesus Christ certainly never advocated for killing others.
 
BadK9 said:
Hitler was a socialist and a lot of people were deceived by his oratory and rhetoric. Is anyone suggesting that there were no German atheists that supported Hitler?
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No. Just pointing out that religion didn't help those who did. Religion is just a mirror and reflection of people's most current opinions, values, cultural biases, etc... It is just a mirror, not a guide. The ideas and values come first. The "God says" comes later to push those on others. We can do fine without the otherworldly deities. We just need to learn to behave, or we face the consequences- very this-worldly ones. It doesn't matter what these otherworldly gods and deities think.
 
BadK9 said:
Perhaps "Christians" in name, but not in practice. Jesus Christ certainly never advocated for killing others.
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The definition of "Christian" is not just "people who hold my most current personal opinions and values".
 
LowDown said:
Yes, "libertine" use to be a synonym for "atheist", and for many it apparently still is.

Whether this is a false meme or not isn't the point. The fact is that a lot of people have this attitude.

Chalk this up as a benefit of religion, or of being seen as religious. Religions have long been the vehicle whereby traditions of morality are taught to the people.
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Very few things are more evil than "othering" people who believe in either a different god or no god.
 
BadK9 said:
They knew there was no "God" and, therefore, no morality and that they could kill without consequence...and they did.

Your statement about Hitler is a lie. I won't bother engaging you further, I don't engage with liars.
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Your ignorance is absurd.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
- Adolph Hitler
 
faithful_servant said:
So wrong on so many points and those points only reflect your own chauvinism, not anything I said.
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So WTF where you saying? Whats the crack about chauvinism for?
 
ataraxia said:
The definition of "Christian" is not just "people who hold my most current personal opinions and values".
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The definition of a "Christian" is one who believes in AND FOLLOWS the teachings of Christ.
 
Cephus said:
Your ignorance is absurd.

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
- Adolph Hitler
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Thanks for the enlightenment. I had NOT seen that quote. I stand corrected. Thank you.
 
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BadK9 said:
I don't need HP to tell me the definition of a "Christian". Next you guys are going to tell me that one who prays to God every day is an atheist.
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If you go by what the bible tells Christians to do then there are no Christians.
 
zyzygy said:
If you go by what the bible tells Christians to do then there are no Christians.
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Christians, like atheists and everyone else, are sinners. Christians believe that, through repentance and Christ's sacrifice, they can be forgiven and granted ever-lasting life in God's kingdom.
 
BadK9 said:
Christians, like atheists and everyone else, are sinners. Christians believe that, through repentance and Christ's sacrifice, they can be forgiven and granted ever-lasting life in God's kingdom.
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And it will remain merely a belief.
 
BadK9 said:
The definition of a "Christian" is one who believes in AND FOLLOWS the teachings of Christ.
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The million dollar question is: WHOSE interpretation. There are 30,000 sects within Protestantism alone.

Christ only said a handful of things. Hardly enough to base difficult and grey ethical decisions on. These included things like "love thy neighbor", "turn the other cheek to your enemies", "blessed are the meek", or the poor, etc...

I can't think of even ONE Christian who does any of those things. Some of them aren't even practical in some situations.
 
BadK9 said:
Christians, like atheists and everyone else, are sinners. Christians believe that, through repentance and Christ's sacrifice, they can be forgiven and granted ever-lasting life in God's kingdom.
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Your definition of Christian was one who follows the teachings of Christ. Now you are telling us none of them can or do, and it doesn't matter.
 
BadK9 said:
Thanks for the enlightenment. I had NOT seen that quote. I stand corrected. Thank you.
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It's not remotely the only one either. Hitler was very clear that he was a Christian, that the Holocaust resulted from his Christian beliefs and that he was absolutely certain that God wanted him to massacre the Jews. Christians typically pretend otherwise, but hey, it came straight from his lips, it's hard to deny reality, although they sure the hell try.
 
soylentgreen said:
From your link


The benefit of your religion is that it turns your ignorance into bigotry and hatred. A rather good description of religion really.

Oddly enough i would point out that in finland many people do believe in elves while in nz we still hold the record for having the most people who claim on the national census under religion to be jedi knights.

Perhaps we are the only two countries who really know what is going on. :)
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So, bigoted ideas about religion are acceptable, but anti-atheist bigotry is not?
 
Grand Mal said:
If your religion proscribes killing, i.e.the sixth commandment, is military service an option for you or is it a relative ethic?
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The proscription in the Old Testament is not to murder. Killing justified by war or by law isn't murder.
 
ataraxia said:
Oh I see. That's why religious teachings of morality by everyone from the Spanish inquisition to the Islamic Republic of Iran have really made their respective societies so moral!
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Most people see the religious people in their own communities, how they act, what they do, how moral they are, and develop their attitudes based on that knowledge.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
What a quaint delusion to harbor. It belies a profound ignorance of history.
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Sure, T. Anything you say. Same way your post "belies" your understanding of the meaning and use of the word belie... or is it the other way around? Hard to tell what you mean. As always. Perpetual Personal Attack Mode plays havoc with semantic integrity.
 
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