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The Jesus Sacrifice Thing

blarg said:
now if we just had immortality and freedom from being harmed by other people we would be fine and actually would have rule over are selves

that seems to be what the god in the bible took away
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If you want everlasting life and freedom from harm, then you want to live under God's rule...that is the only way they are possible...the way we are living NOW proves that point...
 
Elvira said:
If you want everlasting life and freedom from harm, then you want to live under God's rule...that is the only way they are possible...the way we are living NOW proves that point...
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no its not the only way if god is all powerful

a god who would only give you that in exchange for slavery is evil and loves itself not you
 
blarg said:
no its not the only way if god is all powerful

a god who would only give you that in exchange for slavery is evil and loves itself not you
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He is God Almighty...He makes the rules...He can do that...whether we agree with them or not is up to us...
 
Elvira said:
If you want everlasting life and freedom from harm, then you want to live under God's rule...that is the only way they are possible...the way we are living NOW proves that point...
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Buddhists would disagree with you.
 
Elvira said:
He is God Almighty...He makes the rules...He can do that...whether we agree with them or not is up to us...
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then you lied its not about whats right its about power
 
Elvira said:
He is God Almighty...He makes the rules...He can do that...whether we agree with them or not is up to us...
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There is no proof of the existence of god almighty.
 
zyzygy said:
There is no proof of the existence of god almighty.
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but if ther is one it can do Anything it wants and be good at least as long as its willing to grant Elvira happiness in exchange for certain services
 
blarg said:
then you lied its not about whats right its about power
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Well I think our world now certainly proves we cannot rule ourselves without Him so yes, it is about what is right for mankind...Our Creator knows us inside and out so He knows what is best for us...some just don't like to admit that...
 
blarg said:
but if ther is one it can do Anything it wants and be good at least as long as its willing to grant Elvira happiness in exchange for certain services
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That is a huge if.
 
Elvira said:
Well I think our world now certainly proves we cannot rule ourselves without Him so yes, it is about what is right for mankind...Our Creator knows us inside and out so He knows what is best for us...some just don't like to admit that...
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That kind of remark belongs in the religion forum. Why do you never answer questions? When did Homo Sapiens appear on Earth?
 
Elvira said:
Well I think our world now certainly proves we cannot rule ourselves without Him so yes, it is about what is right for mankind...Our Creator knows us inside and out so He knows what is best for us...some just don't like to admit that...
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That's actually contradicted by the evidence. God apparently does not know us at all. After all, he trusted Adam with Eve and that tree; he had to flood the earth because...well, man was wicked; he had to send Jesus down here to save our sorry asses, etc.
 
Elvira said:
Well I think our world now certainly proves we cannot rule ourselves without Him so yes, it is about what is right for mankind...Our Creator knows us inside and out so He knows what is best for us...some just don't like to admit that...
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except are world now has thing about it that dont have to be the way they are

log into wow or guild wars 2 every one can run around enjoy infinite resource and only be harmed by other people if they wish it and the damage is not hard to fix

if humans can makes worlds where self rule works fine why cant an all powerful god do it?

how could a good and loving one not?
 
zyzygy said:
That kind of remark belongs in the religion forum. Why do you never answer questions? When did Homo Sapiens appear on Earth?
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And, to think. She started out so reasonable when some silly beliefs that were different than hers were brought into play.


Funny how that works. Like, they say, Christians and other monotheists are just like atheists. Atheists just believe in one less god than they do. :lol:
 
Elvira said:
Well I think our world now certainly proves we cannot rule ourselves without Him so yes, it is about what is right for mankind...Our Creator knows us inside and out so He knows what is best for us...some just don't like to admit that...[/QUOTE


being killed or enslaved is not best for us
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calamity said:
That's actually contradicted by the evidence. God apparently does not know us at all. After all, he trusted Adam with Eve and that tree; he had to flood the earth because...well, man was wicked; he had to send Jesus down here to save our sorry asses, etc.
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shut up and obey or die because i love you and want what is best for you

however i can do whatever i want and its right because i can
 
calamity said:
That's actually contradicted by the evidence. God apparently does not know us at all. After all, he trusted Adam with Eve and that tree; he had to flood the earth because...well, man was wicked; he had to send Jesus down here to save our sorry asses, etc.
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Well I suppose He could have created us without free will...that would have solved everything...
 
blarg said:
except are world now has thing about it that dont have to be the way they are

log into wow or guild wars 2 every one can run around enjoy infinite resource and only be harmed by other people if they wish it and the damage is not hard to fix

if humans can makes worlds where self rule works fine why cant an all powerful god do it?

how could a good and loving one not?
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Could you please decipher?:confused:
 
calamity said:
So, let me see if I got this right. God sends himself down as a person, who we call Jesus, only to kill himself so that we can all be forgiven for original sin, which we as individuals never had anything to do with anyway. Is that about right?

WTF?

Seriously. Does this crap make any sense to anyone who has not drank from the cup of giant Kool Aid?
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Yes that is right. God sent himself > to sacrifice himself > to himself > to save us all from himself.

There is of course some Old Testament stuff that leads up to this. The basics of that is: God created Adam and then he created a companion for Adam, Eve. They lived in a paradise called Eden. Inside that paradise, there was a tree of knowledge whose fruit they were not to eat. The devil was like "I can't believe God would be so dumb as to put the forbidden fruit right there in the Garden of Eden, that makes as much sense as storing your steaks right down there by the dog bowl." So the devil, seeing his opportunity, took the form of a serpent (Because who doesn't trust a snake?), and convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit - obviously women are easier to corrupt. Then Eve convinced Adam to eat it too. At this point they realized they were both naked. So they clothed themselves - probably in big leafs. God found out and he was royally pissed. So he threw Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden and told Eve that when she had kids it would really ****in hurt now. So then they went out and multiplied, and God did some sadistic things with some of their future family like when he almost made Abraham kill his son in front of him just for kicks, and then he got mad at society when they were trying to build a tower to heaven, so he gave them all different languages so they could not easily coordinate on such an endeavor in the future. God then really got pissed at humanity again so he sent down a great flood that flooded the whole world and all the animals were saved upon this great big wooden ship he had Noah build. Finally the floods receded and the ship ran aground somewhere up at the top of Mount Ararat. At this point it kind of sucked for penguins and kangaroos because they had a long ass walk ahead of them to back to their homes. God then got this dude Moses to lead his people out of slavery in Egypt and to the promised land. In the process he give them a bunch of rules, some pretty good ones like you shouldn't steal, others having to do with exactly how women should be treated as property and proper slave ownership. He also commanded them to commit wholesale genocide and even take and rape virgin little girls as spoils of war. So anyway, time just continues to go by, wars are fought, there are some good kings and not so good kings, some wise verses are added to the Bible and so on, and then finally, God sends himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us all from himself because he was still really pissed about that whole deal with Adam and Eve eating from his prize fruit tree. However, its good that he did it being now we won't all burn in hell for all of eternity because of that. Of course, most people will still burn in hell because of that time he got pissed off about humans getting together and trying to build that tower to heaven and to keep it from happening again he split everyone up and gave them all different languages and cultures, so really, its mostly just white people of European descent and those that Europeans colonized and imposed their religion on that will have any hope of avoiding burning in hell for all of eternity, the rest of the world can just go to hell as far as the good Lord is concerned. That's just fine though, because all and all, God just likes whites of European descent more than anyone else. For example white people in America will pray for things like a parking space or to win a high school football game and the good Lord delivers. Meanwhile if a sub-Saharan African prays for her kids that are starving to death in front of her, well God just doesn't have time for that.

God gives us all a chance though. You can be dying a horrible death at a young age and if you beg God enough, he might, just might change his mind on that - but only if you really, really beg him and even then, no guarantees.

There you have it, Christianity in a nutshell.
 
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Elvira said:
Could you please decipher?:confused:
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if you have an all powerful magic man you can make a world where people can do what they like with themselves but not to one another without consent and you can peruse and find happiness in such a world without getuing killed off forever

why is your god not that good

how can it be said to care for you and your happiness when it only offers slavery or death instead?
 
Elvira said:
Well I suppose He could have created us without free will...that would have solved everything...
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There is no free will. A person living in Ethiopia with no food has not free will to eat. A person born with leukemia has no free will to good health. A person born with mental disorder has no free will to think clearly. A person born to a drunk has no free will to being born without fetal alcohol syndrome. A person living in Hiroshima had no free will to be nuked. A person born Jewish in Eastern Europe during the late 1930's had no free will to not be cremated in Hitler's ovens.

None of us have free will on when in time we are born. None of us have free will on when to die, unless we kill ourselves, which ironically is a mortal sin in the eyes of god. :lol: some free will this god gave us. Eh?
 
After 25 pages.......I must conclude:

the-gods-must-be-crazy-20160328132903-690784.jpg
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes that is right. God sent himself > to sacrifice himself > to himself > to save us all from himself.

There is of course some Old Testament stuff that leads up to this. The basics of that is: God created Adam and then he created a companion for Adam, Eve. They lived in a paradise called Eden. Inside that paradise, there was a tree of knowledge whose fruit they were not to eat. The devil was like "I can't believe God would be so dumb as to put the forbidden fruit right there in the Garden of Eden, that makes as much sense as storing your steaks right down there by the dog bowl." So the devil, seeing his opportunity, took the form of a serpent (Because who doesn't trust a snake?), and convinced Eve to eat the forbidden fruit - obviously women are easier to corrupt. Then Eve convinced Adam to eat it too. At this point they realized they were both naked. So they clothed themselves - probably in big leafs. God found out and he was royally pissed. So he threw Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden and told Eve that when she had kids it would really ****in hurt now. So then they went out and multiplied, and God did some sadistic things with some of their future family like when he almost made Abraham kill his son in front of him just for kicks, and then he got mad at society when they were trying to build a tower to heaven, so he gave them all different languages so they could not easily coordinate on such an endeavor in the future. God then really got pissed at humanity again so he sent down a great flood that flooded the whole world and all the animals were saved upon this great big wooden ship he had Noah build. Finally the floods receded and the ship ran aground somewhere up at the top of Mount Ararat. At this point it kind of sucked for penguins and kangaroos because they had a long ass walk ahead of them to back to their homes. God then got this dude Moses to lead his people out of slavery in Egypt and to the promised land. In the process he give them a bunch of rules, some pretty good ones like you shouldn't steal, others having to do with exactly how women should be treated as property and proper slave ownership. He also commanded them to commit wholesale genocide and even take and rape virgin little girls as spoils of war. So anyway, time just continues to go by, wars are fought, there are some good kings and not so good kings, some wise verses are added to the Bible and so on, and then finally, God sends himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us all from himself because he was still really pissed about that whole deal with Adam and Eve eating from his prize fruit tree. However, its good that he did it being now we won't all burn in hell for all of eternity because of that. Of course, most people will still burn in hell because of that time he got pissed off about humans getting together and trying to build that tower to heaven and to keep it from happening again he split everyone up and gave them all different languages and cultures, so really, its mostly just white people of European descent and those that Europeans colonized and imposed their religion on that will have any hope of avoiding burning in hell for all of eternity, the rest of the world can just go to hell as far as the good Lord is concerned. That's just fine though, because all and all, God just likes whites of European descent more than anyone else. For example white people in America will pray for things like a parking space or to win a high school football game and the good Lord delivers. Meanwhile if a sub-Saharan African prays for her kids that are starving to death in front of her, well God just doesn't have time for that.

God gives us all a chance though. You can be dying a horrible death at a young age and if you beg God enough, he might, just might change his mind on that - but only if you really, really beg him and even then, no guarantees.

There you have it, Christianity in a nutshell.
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It really is that idiotic and nutty. Good post.
 
calamity said:
There is no free will. A person living in Ethiopia with no food has not free will to eat. A person born with leukemia has no free will to good health. A person born with mental disorder has no free will to think clearly. A person born to a drunk has no free will to being born without fetal alcohol syndrome. A person living in Hiroshima had no free will to be nuked. A person born Jewish in Eastern Europe during the late 1930's had no free will to not be cremated in Hitler's ovens.

None of us have free will on when in time we are born. None of us have free will on when to die, unless we kill ourselves, which ironically is a mortal sin in the eyes of god. :lol: some free will this god gave us. Eh?
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I think you are confused about what free will actually is...when man was created with free will, none of those things existed...that is not to say there are not consequences to our free will...

"freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free will
 
calamity said:
It really is that idiotic and nutty. Good post.
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The only way it typically makes sense to anyone is if they were indoctrinated at a very young age. There are not a lot of adults raised in a secular home in this day and age that become Christians (or any of the other Western Religions).
 
Elvira said:
I think you are confused about what free will actually is...when man was created with free will, none of those things existed...that is not to say there are not consequences to our free will...

"freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free will
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There is no free will. That is not to say we cannot make choices. But, many of those choices are predetermined by things like brain chemistry more so than conscious decision making.

In recent decades, research on the inner workings of the brain has helped to resolve the nature-nurture debate—and has dealt a further blow to the idea of free will. Brain scanners have enabled us to peer inside a living person’s skull, revealing intricate networks of neurons and allowing scientists to reach broad agreement that these networks are shaped by both genes and environment. But there is also agreement in the scientific community that the firing of neurons determines not just some or most but all of our thoughts, hopes, memories, and dreams.

We know that changes to brain chemistry can alter behavior—otherwise neither alcohol nor antipsychotics would have their desired effects. The same holds true for brain structure: Cases of ordinary adults becoming murderers or pedophiles after developing a brain tumor demonstrate how dependent we are on the physical properties of our gray stuff.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/
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