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The Reality of Time

calamity

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The article below touches on something I've believed for a while now. Time is real. It has a specific direction--moving forward--and it is unwavering. Time is predictable; it's effects certain and repeatable.

Doubt me? Throw a clock in the air and let it crash down on concrete. We all know thee result. And, guess what, you can't do it backwards. No one can take a million broken pieces,flip them up in the air and wind up with a working clock.

Entropy is what it is. And entropy moves in only one direction, as does time.

He defends a homey and unfashionable view of time. It has a built-in arrow. It is fundamental rather than derived from some deeper reality. Change is real, as opposed to an illusion or an artifact of perspective. The laws of physics act within time to generate each moment. Mixing mathematics, physics and philosophy, Maudlin bats away the reasons that scientists and philosophers commonly give for denying this folk wisdom.

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/defense-reality-time/?mbid=social_twitter
 
Interesting read, thanks for the article. I thought it was going to be some philosophy student hack at first, but he's legit enough to read it through for sure.
I like his reasoning, I don't know near enough about the fundamentals to find flaws, but I am glad the interviewer wasn't a lay person ;)

I think his being a teacher helped him describe it. I can understand (at some level) what he means when he was describing how physicists apply the spatial math to time and it works, but includes "no direction". His point is that this doesn't' mean it's correct or appropriate, if you replace the spatial with lines (with direction), it also works, and more closely matches observed reality.
 
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Tim Maudlin is one of my favorite philosophers of science, and has been for a while (assuming time isn't an illusion). He's got his position amidst a range of views held by some pretty smart folks. As I understand it, the notion that time is an illusion does not preclude there being some reality to time. Rather, the idea is that time isn't what it appears to be in some way or other. What the case actually is, is anyone's guess right now. But Maudlin's argument is worth considering.
 
Interesting read, thanks for the article. I thought it was going to be some philosophy student hack at first, but he's legit enough to read it through for sure.
I like his reasoning, I don't know near enough about the fundamentals to find flaws, but I am glad the interviewer wasn't a lay person ;)

I think his being a teacher helped him describe it. I can understand (at some level) what he means when he was describing how physicists apply the spatial math to time and it works, but includes "no direction". His point is that this doesn't' mean it's correct or appropriate, if you replace the spatial with lines (with direction), it also works, and more closely matches observed reality.

Sure, just because someone can stick a negative sign before the t and still derive equations to achieve the same results does not mean time has no direction. I would say that any living person battling the problem of aging knows that time only moves one way. We certainly cannot flip a switch and suddenly start getting younger on our birthdays.

What I found interesting was his statement that even if we could "reverse" time, if we could by some trick get a shattered glass to lift off the floor and reassemble itself, time would still have direction. He's right.
 
Tim Maudlin is one of my favorite philosophers of science, and has been for a while (assuming time isn't an illusion). He's got his position amidst a range of views held by some pretty smart folks. As I understand it, the notion that time is an illusion does not preclude there being some reality to time. Rather, the idea is that time isn't what it appears to be in some way or other. What the case actually is, is anyone's guess right now. But Maudlin's argument is worth considering.

I believe, at least from what Einstein showed, we can safely ascertain that time is not a steady state. It speeds up, it slows down, all of it depending on circumstance. Even when we ignore Einstein's equations and just go by our own experiences, we've all felt time slow down at certain times of duress. Likewise it speeds up when we are doing something we really enjoy. So, at the very least, we know that the experience of passing time is dependent on perception.

What I would like to know is if someone ran a 100 yard dash on earth in 10 seconds flat, would they run it in 3 seconds if doing it on a spaceship moving close to C?
 
The article below touches on something I've believed for a while now. Time is real. It has a specific direction--moving forward--and it is unwavering. Time is predictable; it's effects certain and repeatable.

Doubt me? Throw a clock in the air and let it crash down on concrete. We all know thee result. And, guess what, you can't do it backwards. No one can take a million broken pieces,flip them up in the air and wind up with a working clock.

Entropy is what it is. And entropy moves in only one direction, as does time.

I've always wondered, what time is. It doesn't seem so simple as we intuitively feel. Something like a compilation of physical change. But another interesting thing you say. I have never thought of entropy having direction or for tht matter time.
 
calamity said:
I believe, at least from what Einstein showed, we can safely ascertain that time is not a steady state. It speeds up, it slows down, all of it depending on circumstance. Even when we ignore Einstein's equations and just go by our own experiences, we've all felt time slow down at certain times of duress. Likewise it speeds up when we are doing something we really enjoy. So, at the very least, we know that the experience of passing time is dependent on perception.

That seems to be correct. I still kinda think that Augustin still has the ultimate word on time. To paraphrase: so long as I don't think about it, I know exactly what time is. But when I focus in and try to figure it out, time becomes utterly mysterious. It's one of the weirdest things it's possible to think about, at least in my view.

One interesting upshot to Maudlin's view (which is actually more mainstream than the article suggests) is that past time must be finite. That is, there must be a definite starting moment. I'm a bit too hungover right now to try to reproduce the proof, but here's the gist:

One might think that one could, in imagination, trace the chronology of the universe backward, rather as if time is on a line, and we can (again, just in imagination) walk it backwards infinitely. The problem with this is that, if so, we would not be here now. Since the arrow of time points one direction, this way of thinking about time is flawed. The exercise would be more like trying to start at an infinite time in the future, and working back to this moment. Now one thing to keep in mind is that each moment is real, so it cannot elapse in any shorter interval than it actually did. Once you get all these facts before you, it's just obvious that we could never work backward from a point in time infinitely far into the future to this moment. No matter how far we go, there would still be an infinite amount of time to traverse.

Applying this reasoning to our present moment, we see that time had to have a start a finite amount of time in the past. We can walk backward through the chronology of the universe to a starting point, a point beyond which there simply is no time, no more past to discover.

Now, if that doesn't make your head utterly shrink, nothing will.

calamity said:
What I would like to know is if someone ran a 100 yard dash on earth in 10 seconds flat, would they run it in 3 seconds if doing it on a spaceship moving close to C?

The way I understand it, it would still seem to the person on the ship as if the race took ten seconds. But from the perspective of someone on earth, it would seem to take much longer.

To see why, imagine a time-keeping device that consists of a laser beam bouncing between two mirrors, and each time it strikes one mirror, an interval is "clicked" forward (for ease of understanding, imagine the mirrors are placed far enough apart that it takes half a second for the beam to bounce from one mirror to the other, so as the beam strikes mirror 1, an attached device clicks forward one second). As this device accelerates, the laser beam has to traverse a longer distance. It's like throwing a rock at a car that is standing still just in front of you, and then throwing another as it drives away. The second throw will go over a longer distance, and if the rock travels at the same speed in both throws, the one when the car is driving away takes longer). From the perspective of someone in the same acceleration frame as the two mirrors, time keeps flowing at the same rate. But from the perspective of someone in a slower frame, time flows much more slowly for the accelerated frame. That's why, if we sent a spaceship at a speed approaching C to a nearby star, the trip might seem to take a few years for those on board, but to us on earth, the trip might take centuries.
 
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On the scale of a Plank length (ℓP), where the essence (nodes and lines) of Einstein's space-time exists, time does not exist. Time is an emergent property of quantum mechanics.
 
I've always wondered, what time is. It doesn't seem so simple as we intuitively feel. Something like a compilation of physical change. But another interesting thing you say. I have never thought of entropy having direction or for tht matter time.

Entropy, as I understand it, explained in the most simple to understand terms, is the winding down of things over time, as they transition from higher energy state to lower ones. Take a chunk of plutonium. It eventually decays into uranium, over several transitional phases, all of which have half lives--a time-based life expectancy.

For me, everything alive is on the clock. And, it seems, even those things not alive are on one too. Rocks erode, moons drift away, suns burn out, that sort of thing.
 
TIME
Time is an assumption.
Time is an assumption hypostatised by Mankind from time immemorial. (The last phrase a pun.)
Time is an assumption drawn from self-consciousness, a subjective experience we have of "duration."
Time is an assumption drawn from self-consciousness and applied to the changes in matter observed in the world.
Time is an invention of science based on the hypostatised assumption of time and used to measure changes in states of matter.
Time does not really exist.
Only change in states of consciousness exists.
Only change in states of matter exists.
Our experience of time is merely that purely subjective feeling of self-consciousness we have of "duration."
We impose that purely subjective experience on the outside world.
We experience change in the outside world as occurring "in time" only because we are self-conscious and experience self-consciousness as "duration" and impose this sense of duration on our experience of the world and then hypostatise this subjectivity and grant it physical or metaphysical status.
Time is an illusion.
;)
 
TIME
Time is an assumption.
Time is an assumption hypostatised by Mankind from time immemorial. (The last phrase a pun.)
Time is an assumption drawn from self-consciousness, a subjective experience we have of "duration."
Time is an assumption drawn from self-consciousness and applied to the changes in matter observed in the world.
Time is an invention of science based on the hypostatised assumption of time and used to measure changes in states of matter.
Time does not really exist.
Only change in states of consciousness exists.
Only change in states of matter exists.
Our experience of time is merely that purely subjective feeling of self-consciousness we have of "duration."
We impose that purely subjective experience on the outside world.
We experience change in the outside world as occurring "in time" only because we are self-conscious and experience self-consciousness as "duration" and impose this sense of duration on our experience of the world and then hypostatise this subjectivity and grant it physical or metaphysical status.
Time is an illusion.
;)
Time is very real after reaching the age of 50. It's clear to see that it is running out.
 
The article below touches on something I've believed for a while now. Time is real. It has a specific direction--moving forward--and it is unwavering. Time is predictable; it's effects certain and repeatable.

Doubt me? Throw a clock in the air and let it crash down on concrete. We all know thee result. And, guess what, you can't do it backwards. No one can take a million broken pieces,flip them up in the air and wind up with a working clock.

Entropy is what it is. And entropy moves in only one direction, as does time.

What about Stephen Hawking's imaginary time?
 
What about Stephen Hawking's imaginary time?

I believe he may be wrong on that. But, of course, he is a lot smarter than I am. So, I'll just leave it at that. :)
 
I believe he may be wrong on that. But, of course, he is a lot smarter than I am. So, I'll just leave it at that. :)

He's only admitted an error on one theory I know of concerning information being lost in a Black Hole. Him and Penrose are today's world equivalent to Einstein and Bohr.
 
Time is very real after reaching the age of 50. It's clear to see that it is running out.

BTW, this is a very profound statement and completely accurate. Most people won't know what the hell you're talking about, because it doesn't enter into their microcosmic world. Consciousness or self awareness is an imaginary concept in the physical realm of matter, though it has a symbiotic relationship with a functioning animated human brain. It is virtually eternal in nature, not being bound by space or time.
 
When discussing time, the concept of 'now' is difficult to define. Now is here and gone before we can grasp it. If we think of time as a reel of film, then one frame of 'now' for humans seems to be about one-tenth of a second. Anything faster escapes our notice.
 
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