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Truth

Fritz said:
I believe that the ultimate truth can only be decided if a "truth" is completely objective. Objective statements tell the blunt reality, regardless of someone's feelings.
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DashingAmerican said:
Just because I believe something, even if I believe it wholeheartedly, it doesn't make it true. There is only one truth.
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That is my argument. *Emphasize "Ultimate"*
 
DashingAmerican said:
I don't think truth can be subjective at all.
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Someone's opinion can be true but subjective.

e.g. "It's freezing cold in here"

Whilst someone else might find it warm.
 
DashingAmerican said:
We have a very roundabout way of agree with one another.
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TO CLARIFY

- 2 types of truth, personal and ultimate
- personal is subjective
- ultimate is objective and trump personal truth

That is my believe on this philosophical subject.
 
Nilly said:
Someone's opinion can be true but subjective.

e.g. "It's freezing cold in here"

Whilst someone else might find it warm.
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Now that is a double whammy of subjective and ultimate. NOICE M8
 
Nilly said:
Someone's opinion can be true but subjective.

e.g. "It's freezing cold in here"

Whilst someone else might find it warm.
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But it wouldn't be freezing cold, unless it literally was and it could be asked cold in comparison to what? Because cold, in reality, is just the absence of heat.
 
DashingAmerican said:
But it wouldn't be freezing cold, unless it literally was and it could be asked cold in comparison to what?
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Well the freezing part is just a figure of speech. Someone can say they're freezing cold and be telling the truth, whilst someone else in the same room is not freezing cold.
 
Nilly said:
Well the freezing part is just a figure of speech. Someone can say they're freezing cold and be telling the truth, whilst someone else in the same room is not freezing cold.
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But that would be a lie, because they're not literally freezing and cold is a scientific term. They could feel cold, but they wouldn't actually be cold, unless everyone was, in fact, scientifically cold.
 
DashingAmerican said:
But that would be a lie, because they're not literally freezing and cold is a scientific term. They could feel cold, but they wouldn't actually be cold, unless everyone was, in fact, scientifically cold.
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Your argument falls apart around the bolded. (although I disagree with some of the prior statements too - cold is a scientific term? what's scientific about it??)

If you object to the term freezing, then i'll just change my sentence to 'It's cold in here' - which again, is an entirely subjective truth.
 
Nilly said:
Your argument falls apart around the bolded. (although I disagree with some of the prior statements too - cold is a scientific term? what's scientific about it??)

If you object to the term freezing, then i'll just change my sentence to 'It's cold in here' - which again, is an entirely subjective truth.
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It actually doesn't. The definition of cold is to have little or no warmth, so unless their body temperature was under 98.6 degrees F it would be a false statement.
 
DashingAmerican said:
It actually doesn't. The definition of cold is to have little or no warmth, so unless their body temperature was under 98.6 degrees F it would be a false statement.
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That's pretty absurd. Not to mention, the statement wasn't "my body temperature is lower than a certain temp" it was "it's cold in here". If you were indoors, then suddenly walked into a cold room, you can still be truthfully saying "it's cold in here" or "it feels cold in here" whilst your body temp is high.
 
calamity said:
The opposite of lies?
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Something that is a lie and something that is false are sometimes two different things. If I say that you are 20years of age, because something was said to that effect and I believed it, then while I am making a false statement, I am not lying. Lying implies the intent to deceive along with the implication that the person lying know the truth, or at least that their statement is false.
 
DashingAmerican said:
But that would be a lie, because they're not literally freezing and cold is a scientific term. They could feel cold, but they wouldn't actually be cold, unless everyone was, in fact, scientifically cold.
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Colloquialisms are not lies, because they are not intended to deceive. Many terms have both subjective and objective uses, such as cold. Cold is not limited to scientific use.
 
DashingAmerican said:
It actually doesn't. The definition of cold is to have little or no warmth, so unless their body temperature was under 98.6 degrees F it would be a false statement.
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Little warmth compared to what? The temperature at which water freezes is warm compared to that at which nitrogen turns liquid. So ice is warm compared to liquid nitrogen. The human body is cold compared to lava.
 
I'd also add that even 'objective' truths aren't always what they seem when it comes to relativity and quantum mechanics.

 
Fishking said:
Are you sure about that? We only know what we perceive and observe but is our observation an objective fact? Philosophically, you can make a case for their being no objective truth and even in some science this can be true as well.
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Post me a video of you folding up some ashes.
 
DashingAmerican said:
What is truth?
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https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/

Fritz said:
TO CLARIFY

- 2 types of truth, personal and ultimate
- personal is subjective
- ultimate is objective and trump personal truth

That is my believe on this philosophical subject.
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What you call personal truth, the rest of us call beliefs.
What you call ultimate truth, the rest of us call facts.

It seems all you're doing is coming up with your own custom language to discuss this topic. We don't actually need new terms for this; the ones we are using work just fine.
 
Nilly said:
That's pretty absurd. Not to mention, the statement wasn't "my body temperature is lower than a certain temp" it was "it's cold in here". If you were indoors, then suddenly walked into a cold room, you can still be truthfully saying "it's cold in here" or "it feels cold in here" whilst your body temp is high.
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But then you would be saying it's cold in comparison to something else. Which would be true.
 
maquiscat said:
Little warmth compared to what? The temperature at which water freezes is warm compared to that at which nitrogen turns liquid. So ice is warm compared to liquid nitrogen. The human body is cold compared to lava.
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This kinda makes my point. When compared to something, it can be proven true. When someone says it's cold in here or I'm cold it's being made in comparison.
 
Truth is not the same as fact. Fact is that which can be demonstrated in the real world, regardless of who believes it. Truth is subjective, depending on the opinions and positions of the believer for validity. I find "truth" to be pointless much of the time, especially when people think that they can "truth" reality into existence.
 
CrabCake said:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth/



What you call personal truth, the rest of us call beliefs.
What you call ultimate truth, the rest of us call facts.

It seems all you're doing is coming up with your own custom language to discuss this topic. We don't actually need new terms for this; the ones we are using work just fine.
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Personal beliefs are considered truths to the holder, while ultimate truth is a truth with consensus which everyone can confirm. I am making my own philosophy, not taking from another set idea.
 
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