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If You Were Offered The Opportunity To See Satan Would You?

the_recruit said:
What is the accepted interpretation of 'everything' here? I assume it doesn't include God himself. Or aspects of the world like causality or logic.
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It includes angels. They are specifically delineated as one of the things it includes (things we can't see such as: thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world), that's the part that was relevant to this discussion.
 
countryboy said:
Wut? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, created everything. Now if you're talking some Nordic nonsense, that's all well and good, but don't conflate the two.
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Yea because the bible nonsense is better than the nordic nonsense.
 
rhinefire said:
No one can say what Satan is or what it looks like so if you were afford a chance to view it would you? For me if it does exit I don't want to ever see it.
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Way too much bible thumping in this thread. I would love to meet Satan, have a beer maybe. I hear he's a good hockey player.

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M_Satan.jpg

He looks a bit like the usual Hollywood portrayal.
 
rhinefire said:
No one can say what Satan is or what it looks like so if you were afford a chance to view it would you? For me if it does exit I don't want to ever see it.
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I'll get my chance... I'll wait during the interim. :2razz:
 
Hari Seldon said:
So what. The original question in this "philosophical" thread was about Satan not Christianity.
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Lol, Satan is a part in of Christianity. Besides, I didn't bring up the Koran, I was responding to someone else. Calm down. ;)
 
countryboy said:
Lol, Satan is a part in of Christianity. Besides, I didn't bring up the Koran, I was responding to someone else. Calm down. ;)
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I'm quite calm, too many chicken wings. I'm also petting Sugar cat as she has come for her nightly affection before she disappears for 10 hours.
 
Hari Seldon said:
I'm quite calm, too many chicken wings. I'm also petting Sugar cat as she has come for her nightly affection before she disappears for 10 hours.
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Mmmmmm, wings.

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Grand Mal said:
I definitely read somewhere that Lucifer didn't accept the dominion of God because He hadn't created the angels, but I can't remember where and can't find it now.
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I think I know where you got it from. What you are describing is the plot to His Dark Materials, a series of fictional novels in the "young adult" genre that also spawned one movie (The Golden Compass). You can find them in the same section as Harry Potter and Percy Jackson in your local bookstore.
 
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CrabCake said:
I think I know where you got it from. What you are describing is the plot to His Dark Materials, a series of fictional novels in the "young adult" genre that also spawned one movie (The Golden Compass). You can find them in the same section as Harry Potter and Percy Jackson in your local bookstore.
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No, never heard of those. I was thinking Dante, 'The Divine Comedy' or Milton, 'Paradise Lost' or even Marlowe's 'Faust'. I haven't had a chance to search that part of the subject yet and my 21st century attention span may have been exhausted now.
 
Of course, i'd love to thank the being who gave us such a gay paradise
 
Professionally, no, socially? Hell ya!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
rhinefire said:
No one can say what Satan is or what it looks like so if you were afford a chance to view it would you? For me if it does exit I don't want to ever see it.
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Angels are supposed to be beautiful things, if you believe in that stuff.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Well, I certainly agree that we don't know everything about the mysteries of the Bible. I don't mean that in a petty academic way. I mean that the Bible (and other religious texts of the world) touch on mysteries that go well beyond what the human mind can grasp on a cognitive level. Those mysteries are nevertheless real and consequential for life.

Here's what I think is actually the case: the angels are like lenses for God. They are God, in a restricted sense, they present the divine in a certain way, according to its various manifest aspects. They are created only in a restricted sense.
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Are you saying the men that wrote the bible verses were smarter than modern man?
 
Mason66 said:
Are you saying the men that wrote the bible verses were smarter than modern man?
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No, but they weren't any dumber either. I think ancient people exercised different mental faculties than we do, and it resulted in a different conscious experience than we have. But, I also think that not everything in the Bible was written by human effort, just as such. There are some divinely inspired passages.
 
ashurbanipal said:
No, but they weren't any dumber either. I think ancient people exercised different mental faculties than we do, and it resulted in a different conscious experience than we have. But, I also think that not everything in the Bible was written by human effort, just as such. There are some divinely inspired passages.
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How do you divine "divinely inspired passages"? There is no information in the bible that the men of the time didn't have available.

I would think if there was any divine intervention in the writing, there would have been some information that was outside the knowledge of the men writing it, but there wasn't.
 
Mason66 said:
How do you divine "divinely inspired passages"? There is no information in the bible that the men of the time didn't have available.

I would think if there was any divine intervention in the writing, there would have been some information that was outside the knowledge of the men writing it, but there wasn't.
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Depends on what you think the literature of the Bible was about and what its intended function was. We have a very "sciencey" outlook on life today, and that outlook colors our ability to imagine the scope and intent of a piece of writing. A great deal of what we today call the Bible has no special status, and is hardly worth reading even once. But some parts speak to something that people of the west have largely forgotten, and that is the quest for initiation. The prophetic books, for example, are about attaining the vision of the divine throne. They describe, often in metaphorical language, a kind of mystical itinerary.

Similarly, the stories of Genesis and Exodus interpret the interior landscape through allegory. While they were probably meant literally, they were not meant literally in the way we would think of it, because those stories are not about the domains of reality that we acknowledge.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Depends on what you think the literature of the Bible was about and what its intended function was. We have a very "sciencey" outlook on life today, and that outlook colors our ability to imagine the scope and intent of a piece of writing. A great deal of what we today call the Bible has no special status, and is hardly worth reading even once. But some parts speak to something that people of the west have largely forgotten, and that is the quest for initiation. The prophetic books, for example, are about attaining the vision of the divine throne. They describe, often in metaphorical language, a kind of mystical itinerary.

Similarly, the stories of Genesis and Exodus interpret the interior landscape through allegory. While they were probably meant literally, they were not meant literally in the way we would think of it, because those stories are not about the domains of reality that we acknowledge.
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The bible is fiction written by men. Like all fiction written by men, it may have some insight into the human condition. We are all capable of such insight, whether or not we read fictional stories. One man has no greater insight into life than another. some are just more gifted at writing fiction about it.
 
devildavid said:
The bible is fiction written by men. Like all fiction written by men, it may have some insight into the human condition. We are all capable of such insight, whether or not we read fictional stories. One man has no greater insight into life than another. some are just more gifted at writing fiction about it.
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I'm curious whether you have practiced Merkabah mysticism, or the techniques of early Christian mystics. Have you? Because, if you have not, or if you have only for a few weeks or something (and not the several years it usually takes) you are not qualified to make that kind of claim as against mine. The vision of the Divine Throne is hardly a fiction, as someone who spends enough time in those practices discovers for herself.
 
ashurbanipal said:
I'm curious whether you have practiced Merkabah mysticism, or the techniques of early Christian mystics. Have you? Because, if you have not, or if you have only for a few weeks or something (and not the several years it usually takes) you are not qualified to make that kind of claim as against mine. The vision of the Divine Throne is hardly a fiction, as someone who spends enough time in those practices discovers for herself.
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It's all in your mind.
 
devildavid said:
I mean we can imagine anything and sometimes mistake it for more than just imagination that resides only in our individual mind and nowhere else.
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From my viewpoint, there's so much that's confused in that simple-seeming proposition that I'm not sure where to begin unravelling it. However, I can recall a time, in the dim past, when I would have agreed without any hesitation. When one engages the techniques of which I speak enough, one discovers the view that informs your claim, and that allows you to make it without any reservation, is simply false.

That does not mean that some people cannot be mistaken or go off half-cocked on some ego trip. That can and does happen. But the results of mystical practice are not imagination in the vulgar sense of the term (that is, the way you use it). Language doesn't have terms for what mystics discover, I'm afraid, since so few people ever become mystics. A vision has almost nothing in common with a daydream.
 
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