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Thread: Why I am non-religious

  1. #941
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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    How does science prove that miracles cannot happen?
    Science does not prove things. But it also does not even look for non-physical reasons for anything. So, how do you identify a miracle? Simply by lack of other evidence? Or are there specific traits that all miracles possess?
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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    "If this was indeed the death shroud which encased the body of the historical Jesus of Nazareth, that would date the cloth to 30 AD, the biblical date of the death of Jesus. However, this dating is at odds with later historical record, as well as the modern scientific research on the artifact." dd #940
    What I've read of it indicates the textile touted as JC's burial shroud is centuries younger, and thus could not possibly have present at the time of the ostensible death.

    But even if that's wrong, does it prove there was a talking serpent, or a pregnant virgin (or a parting of the seas, or any of the rest of it)?
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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    A simple glance at a Wikipedia article would tell you that the criticisms are quite honest.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioc...a_later_repair
    IF you look at the 'part of a late repair', that has been examined,and shown not to be true, despite what the shroud believers said

    From Claims of Invalid ?Shroud? Radiocarbon Date Cut from Whole Cloth - CSI

    In fact, the radiocarbon sample (a small piece cut from the “main body of the shroud” [Damon 1988, 612]) was destroyed by the testing. Rogers (2005) relied on two little threads allegedly left over from the sampling,1 together with segments taken from an adjacent area in 1973. He cites pro-authenticity researchers who guessed that the carbon-14 sample came from a “rewoven area” of repair—“As unlikely as it seems,” Rogers admitted to one news source (Lorenzi 2005). Indeed, textile experts specifically made efforts to select a site for taking the radiocarbon sample that was away from patches and seams (Damon et al. 1989, 611—612).
    There is more information at that link, but Roger's claims have been shown to be spurious.
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  4. #944
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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    Science does not prove things. But it also does not even look for non-physical reasons for anything. So, how do you identify a miracle? Simply by lack of other evidence? Or are there specific traits that all miracles possess?
    Miracles are events contrary to the laws of nature.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What in science proves that miracles cannot happen?
    You really are advertising your complete lack of understanding of science. Start your lesson with a basic. Science does not try to prove something does not happen.
    Ar best it will try to demonstrate how something can happen. And if it fails to make something happen on a repeated basis then it will just declare that there is no evidence for it to happen. As far as science is concerned there is no evidence of it happening, not that they have proved it does not happen.

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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Miracles are events contrary to the laws of nature.
    Disagree. Miracles are just a word given meaning by a person who does not know why something happened.

  7. #947
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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Miracles are events contrary to the laws of nature.
    How do you verify that something is contrary to nature? It may be that the explanation is beyond the science of the time. Or it may be that science cannot examine the cause. Attributing a miraculous cause to something does not completely rule out other explanations. But the claim of a miracle is more than just something contrary to natural law. It is also a claim of an unseen power or force causing the miracle to occur. Otherwise, a miracle just becomes something that is unexplained by present available methods and not really a miracle at all.
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  8. #948
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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    You really are advertising your complete lack of understanding of science. Start your lesson with a basic. Science does not try to prove something does not happen.
    No, you're misunderstanding the point that I'm making. I am getting a PhD in biology, by the way.

    Ar best it will try to demonstrate how something can happen. And if it fails to make something happen on a repeated basis then it will just declare that there is no evidence for it to happen. As far as science is concerned there is no evidence of it happening, not that they have proved it does not happen.
    Exactly. The scientific method is just that, a method. It is not an all encompassing way of explaining the world. It's very good at what it does, but it can't do everything.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
    Disagree. Miracles are just a word given meaning by a person who does not know why something happened.
    You wouldn't call a resurrection a miracle?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Why I am non-religious

    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    How do you verify that something is contrary to nature? It may be that the explanation is beyond the science of the time. Or it may be that science cannot examine the cause. Attributing a miraculous cause to something does not completely rule out other explanations. But the claim of a miracle is more than just something contrary to natural law. It is also a claim of an unseen power or force causing the miracle to occur. Otherwise, a miracle just becomes something that is unexplained by present available methods and not really a miracle at all.
    A bullet disappearing in mid air before striking you isn't going to be called just some part of nature that we haven't figured out. It's a miracle.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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